Gannon Fremin

Full episode transcript, auto-generated from the audio and lightly formatted (verbatim, not edited).

Says a lot about somebody's personality. Yeah, I like just a good old Just a nice little slap. Yeah. Just but nothing too aggressive, you know?

You just like to Just let her go. Well, you want to have your hand on it to know that you're in control. Yeah. But you don't want to you don't want to be like don't want to ride her down.

No. No, you want to be respectful. Yeah, just want to just want to let her do her thing. See, I don't trust the guy that just lets it fly.

No. I mean, come on, dude. So, I guess that'd be my first music would be like a CD we burned and handed out. Would be the first music I put out.

But then me and the guys got together and that's probably been 8 or 9 years ago now, I think, that we put out our first stuff on Spotify and stuff. Are all your guys from Oklahoma? Yeah. So, me uh Tyler and Wade which Tyler's my drummer Wade's on bass, but we went to high school together.

So, we're all from the same town, same everything. And then Where at? Walters. Walters.

What's that by? Um it's north of Wichita Falls like 30 minutes. Oh, all right. Yeah, so it's just over the river.

Um south of Lawton. It's in between like Wichita Falls and Lawton right there. So. They're all from there?

That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, we were all from Well, we just kind of started like uh you know, we were in high school me and Wade um me and Wade like to mess around and play, so we started My family kind of played and sang, so it was kind of like I had a I had kind of a road map, you know? Um of what people had been doing and stuff like that.

So, we just kind of followed it and Wade got in playing bass and then uh Tyler got in playing drums and then we uh they played another band, too. Uh once they kind of figured out what they were doing um or wanted to do as far as like bass and drums go. And then uh Travis, my guitar player, he played in another band with them, so they were like, "Hey, come over here, dude. It's way cooler."

Oh. Cuz then Travis is from up the road, 20 minutes. God, that's so rare. Yeah.

I just never had that opportunity. I just didn't have enough people Right. around playing and stuff. Yeah, we just kind of threw it all together and went with it.

And writing songs started then? Yeah. Yeah, writing songs started probably Yeah. Right in there.

And so, where's Sam from, Kenny? Uh he's from Midland. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Midland, Odessa. Well, then so you didn't meet him until he like just moved up there. Yeah, I met him at Steamboat.

Okay. Yeah. And then he was saying like, "Hey, man." Uh cuz I didn't know like I didn't know Treaty Oak Revival at all.

Like I'd heard a few of their tunes. It's been a long time ago. Uh But anyway, I just heard a few of their tunes and stuff and he asked me where I was from. Um so I was kind of telling him about it.

Well, he came back up to me, you know, and he was like, "Hey, I'm like that's where I live." And I thought he was just being a dick, you know. I'm like, "Okay, whatever, dude." I'm like, "Gosh, this guy, you know."

Come to find out he wasn't lying. So then me and him just started hanging out and ever since then we've been hanging out with the Treaty Oak boys. Yeah. Did y'all end up writing a lot?

Yeah, we did. Uh we did, especially the, you know, um two on that EP. I think me and Sam wrote together and then um On the one that you just released? Yeah.

Which ones? Uh you don't love me anymore and love me, too. Uh which love me, too is kind of a kind of a uh we put it out, stuff kind of started changing for us, you know. Uh-huh.

Um everybody kind of started listening and uh like started actually having fans instead of just family show up to stuff, you know. It was actually like people were listening to what we were doing, so that was cool. And then uh you know, some of Sam's new stuff and things I wrote on, so it's been fun. Yeah.

Yeah, that What's the last song on that EP? The sign something? Uh your clown? Yeah, sign your clown.

Yeah, I really dig that one. Thanks, man. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, me and Wade wrote that.

We just My sister and her boyfriend are always calling each other clowns. And I just think it's so weird they call each other clowns all the time. And so they got uh engaged or getting married, but I was like, "I'm just going to write y'all one about this clown thing you guys can't get over calling each other." Have y'all reached the point where you can't like go hang?

Can't party where you play? No, absolutely not. Oh, really? I reach it with Sam because Sam and I hang out with Sam all the time.

Okay. So it's like when we go somewhere there'll be people like bugging Sam. Uh so I get to hang out with Sam when he does it, but no. Do y'all have played a lot together?

Yeah, we played quite a few together, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't say like you know, whenever It's funny how much you guys have wrote together.

You I don't feel like you guys just play a ton together. We don't. We used to uh back like I mean, some of the rooms we were playing with Treaty whenever we played with them like and we went out with them for a while and stuff. It was like 200 cap rooms and things like that, you know, like we played with them long time ago.

Um and then everything kind of started selling out and stuff and we'd already been with them to like quite a few places and so their management was like, "Hey, we don't want to bring like just the same opener every time we come through town, you know." Uh so we call them our best friend band. How far out have you gone with them? We've been down to uh Louisiana and stuff.

We've been up to uh Seattle. To California. We've kind of been all over the place. Yeah, so what was uh what was the story cuz Sam and I were talking about it on the pod I did with him about y'all playing I can't remember where y'all were playing.

We were in uh Yeah. Yeah, we were in Baton Rouge whenever this happened, I think. We played the Texas Club. And Sam on the podcast, he said that we told everybody we were Treaty Oak.

Okay. And we just got into the bar. To get into the bar. Yes.

Okay. That's not exactly what happened. I text Sam about it when it happened cuz I was just like, "Hey, just so you know, like if you guys show up, you're already in here. So, you can't come in now."

You know, I was like, "In case you guys decide to come over here, we're already Treaty Oak and we're already in here, so you can't you can't pull that one. You have to say something else." But you didn't tell them you were Treaty Oak. No.

Yet to get in. So, we were in a long line of people. And we had just played the I think it was a Texas club we played or something. And uh anyway, so these it was like super long, like 100 people long.

And these dudes come up and they're like freaking out. And they're like, "Oh, dude, it's Treaty Oak. It's Treaty Oak. It's Treaty Oak."

I didn't say anything. I just looked at him. And he was like, "Are y'all Treaty Oak?" And I didn't say anything back to him.

I just looked at him. And he goes, "Well, if you're Treaty Oak, you don't got to wait in line." And I just looked at everybody else and I was like, "Yep." I was like, "We're Treaty Oak, dude."

This is great. I can skip the line and I don't have to lie. I was like, "Yeah, just whatever." I was like, "Just take us up there."

Yeah. So, he takes us around everybody. The security guard like come over there and it was a whole like acting like we were this huge deal. Well, we get in the bar and the bar the like guy working the door is like, "Hey, you guys get out of the way.

Treaty Oak's coming. Treaty Oak's coming." So, we get in there and like the whole bar thinks that we're Treaty Oak. Like the entire bar is like, "Hey, man, you want a shot?

What You know, like you want a beer? You want this? You want that?" Like the bartender is like, "Y'all don't have to wait in line here.

Like y'all can just come up here and get a drink and have anything you want." Like they're all going crazy and I just tell the guys, I'm like, "Just Why would but wouldn't there Why was it so packed? Wouldn't Yeah, Shaq was playing. Right.

But Shaq was playing at the bar the road, DJing. Yeah, DJing. He was DJing, so like as soon as the gig was over we watched Treaty and I was like, "Guys, we're not going to get to see Shaq DJ very many times in our life. I'm like, if we ever had a shot at it, it's now."

I'm like, "So, let's go." So, we took off over there trying to get uh trying to get in. The time we got there, the place that Shaq was at was like at capacity and it was like 300 people at the door. So, there was a bar across the road and we were like, "We'll just go over here cuz if you get out on their back patio, you could kind of see Shaq, like see where he was at and hear whatever he was doing."

Um But he wasn't even at that bar. He wasn't even at the bar we were going to, no. But you could see him, like So, this bar had like an inside and then like the outside went out and it was across the street from the bar where Shaq was at outside. So, it's like if you got in there, you could still see like through the fence Shaq.

So, we went in there. So, Sam never showed up at that place, right? Nobody showed up. None of the Treaty Oak's people showed up.

It was all us the whole time. So, y'all just vibed the whole time? Yeah, we just went big. Nobody at any point was like pictures with everybody.

They were freaking out like, "Oh, can I get a picture with you all guys, Treaty Oak? Man, I love Treaty Oak." And they were like telling me about how like, "Man, your music saved my life and shit." And I'm like, "Okay, dude."

I'm like, "We're just Oh gosh, did you Did you Did you sign Dude, okay. Cuz I'm a menace, so I would have probably just started Yeah, just No, I didn't do anything like that cuz I was like, "Sam will be pissed if I go weird." But no, it was it was pretty funny. They do that to me all the time.

Really? Yeah, like everywhere I go people are like, "Oh man, I know you're that guy from Treaty Oak." And I'm like, "Dude, Y'all do look a little similar though. Like you look like you could be brothers.

I We get that a lot, yeah. Brothers, cousins. Bro, we get that a lot, but I'm like, "I'm not the guy from Treaty Oak." Like I do know the guy, I'm like, "But it's not It's not me, you know?"

And they're like, "Oh yeah, whatever." You know, trying to play it cool. I'm like, "Okay." I'm like, "Okay, whatever."

Awesome. So, you did get to see Shaq? Not really. Did they do the thing where he doesn't come on till like 4:00 a.

m. or something? No, he was on I think when we got there. We got so caught up in taking pictures with everybody and drinking shots and Yeah, yeah.

Our new found fame we were so caught up in we didn't really get time to enjoy Shaq. Um but we could hear him outside on the back patio for a minute, but yeah. It was pretty wild. It was pretty It was weird.

In your in your hometown stuff have you started to do the deal where people know you? I would imagine that's happening. Yeah, I mean I don't live in my hometown anymore so I live in Marlow now. But uh even living there um it's kind of like some people do, some people don't.

at a fun level. Yeah. Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah, cuz I don't ever mind you know if somebody listens to music and stuff I don't ever mind somebody coming up and hanging out for a minute or doing whatever, so.

Yeah, just getting mobbed though. Dude, like I don't I never got mobbed. No, yeah. That wouldn't Dude, that would suck.

weird. I wouldn't like that. What a what a crazy thing to have to I've been out with Sam and stuff and you know he'll be he'll be uh be like a 80-year-old lady at the cashier and she's like, "Oh, Sam." You know what I'm like, "Sam, how's this 80-year-old lady know about you, dude?"

I'm like, "You He's like, "We dated." I mean I'm like, "Everybody knows you, Sam." She's like 85, she knows who you are? Yeah, so you're saying it really started to change whenever you did What was the name of that one you did?

too. Love you too. Yeah. What do you think the big shift was?

Like what actually made it happen? Did it just start popping on social media or did it pop on like Spotify or Well, it started it started kind of on social media and stuff. I think the main thing was uh like you know we got back in with Taylor Kimball, um who was a big part I felt like of our sound and direction we were going. We just got away from him and then had to, you know, worked our way back to him.

Um but I think a lot of it was just like you know, normally we would go to studio, we'd record, then whatever they got us the master, we'd be like, "Okay, we're going to put it out next Friday." Like just run and gone and be like you know, if you want to listen to our music, it's out. And "Love Me Too" we kind of had a like you know, 2 months before we had it uploaded like we built a plan around it. It was like, "Hey, this is what we want to do with it.

This is kind of how we want to run stuff." So, I think that helped out a ton just having headway for it and you know, like saving up some money to be like, "Hey, we're going to, you know, try to advertise and actually try to do it like we want to do it." So, Yeah. I think that helped out a bunch.

Yeah, you think you always had a knack for songwriting? No, I don't. Uh I don't know, you know, back when like it seems like it was a lot easier when I was younger cuz it was like you just sit down and write whatever you want and then nothing matters, you know? Just if it's not good, it's not good, you throw it away.

If it's good and now I like it's like, you know, everything I write I feel like it's got to be, you know, up to a some sort of bar that I hold in my own head and I think it holds me back quite a bit, but I wouldn't say like I really like it took me a long time to figure out how to write and I still, you know, like what when I first started singing, I was horrible. I mean, I still ain't the best, but I was bad, you know? I feel you on that. like, "Man, you're you know, you're talented."

I'm like, "There ain't no ta here. Like this is 13 years of just trying to figure out how to sing." That's interesting. There ain't nothing.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I was born with any of it. You think it seems like to me people love the idea of it just being some sort of gift and talent and there's elements of that. Yeah.

And maybe it's different for some other people. There are some other people I watch where it's just Yeah, some people are way good. They were just always incredible, you know? And then there's other people that like uh it just takes so much time and effort.

I was so bad. I was, too. I was terrible. We're terrible.

it almost like for people to say, "Oh, it's just you're just so talented, so lucky." Mhm. It In a way, it sort of takes out accountability for them to get good at anything. Right.

Cuz like if you just got lucky and you just got gifted with this ability, Right. then it takes the onus on them off them to like try to work that hard at anything. Cuz most people don't want to hear that like no, no, no. I was awful and it took me 10 or 15 years to even be able to be relatively decent.

Most people don't want to hear that. Cuz then it's like, "Oh, wait. I could do it, too." Yeah.

I'm I'm a honest believer that anybody can. If I figured it out, it's not And I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not saying I figured out everything, but I'm just saying like if I made it this far, I'm convinced anybody can make it to this point. Nobody wants to hear about the work, though. Mhm.

I figured that out. And then successful people, no matter kind of what you do or what industry you're in, I think there's almost this unwritten rule or not a rule, but there's this understanding. Whether you're sitting with like a plumber that built a massive plumbing company or you're sitting with a songwriter, successful songwriter, or it's like a senator, all those people, what they have in common is that they did a lot of stuff that no one ever will see. And they did it like put up with a lot of [expletive] and did a lot of work that will never see the light of day uh to get where they're at.

And it's like there's almost this unspoken understanding that's like, "Dude, you've been through the [expletive] dude." You just got to go to But then the easy sales thing that most people do is just like, "Oh, yeah. I mean, it sounds slicker and sexier to just be like, yeah, man. I just, you know, Yeah.

Woke up this morning and everything was cool, man. you know. You don't really want to hear like, "No, I grinded at this I worked on this song for 2 years." Right.

I'm even that way. I don't really even want to hear about how hard somebody works. Yeah. Well, I mean it's just uh there is songs, you know, and stuff that took us like you know, there's stuff that we worked on forever that's just like no, it's not good and there's some things that took us so long like our band had passed what we were working on, you know.

Had passed? Yeah, like you know, we'd start a we'd start like an album or something and it'd be like two or three songs that we're like, oh man, we're so excited about this. And then as we're trying to work on this project like us all just playing together and stuff we moved to where it's like song number four on the album and we're like, oh man, we don't even like the first three anymore. Like that was, you know.

Like we've already been working since then like been playing since then and it's like we've tried to do things different now, you know, it's like different guitar tone, different this, different that and it's like we don't even like these. So we throw them out and then keep going and that's why like you know, we've been around like I said for a long time but we haven't released a ton of music and a lot of it was just due to like that kind of stuff happening, you know, just like getting us getting something done and it'd be like, no, we're not happy with it. Like we're going to try again somewhere else, you know. Yeah, what do you think the biggest difference is mhm when you were young younger and you first started um what you thought was like a good song as opposed to now.

How do you think that's changed? Yeah, I don't know. Um there's still a lot of songs I listen to that I bet a bunch of people would say probably weren't very good. Okay.

And things like that but I think like you know, just for us um used to it was like, oh man, anything I wrote, you know, we were just proud to have a song that was that was wrote, you know. It was like we got one done. All we got to do is put music to it we can put it out. And now it's just it's to me it's just more like, you know, we I really want to try to like make sure it reflects like what I'm thinking or what I got going on or is going to, you know, I'm not real big on like trying to be like, "Okay, like I want to write this song cuz I know the fans will love it."

You know, like I'm more like try to tell my story and if I can tell my story and make it where the fans love it, that'd be the goal, you know. So, it kind of gets kind of mixed in there, but that's my definition of a good song now something that actually, you know, something that something that I feel like to me is like, "Okay, this is this is true, this is cool, this is all this." And then when other people hear it, they're like, "Oh, yeah, I can relate to this, you know." Yeah, what I've noticed about your stuff and what I like is uh it's pretty like vibe oriented.

Mhm. Um and there has to be some sort of like every song kind of just has like a bit of a sound to it and they're and they're they typically start with like a simple vibe that just puts you in an area rather than you know, maybe traditionally like especially like the Nashville way of doing stuff, there's like they'll take good songs and then they just kind of do this standard music and production with it where it doesn't really like take you to a place or it doesn't really set a tone or really set a vibe. It's just very like song. Yeah.

And it could be a really good song, but it And those will do well sometimes, but that's like only one way of doing it. Yeah. I've when I first started, I was very focused on like the lyrics and the melody and just the actual essence of the song and then now I've gotten more where like the vibe is so much more important to me. Like I want to put a listener in a place rather than Absolutely.

if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. That's And those like those are my favorite songs. Like I'll still go back and listen to like old Jason Aldean and stuff like that just cuz like I remember whenever I heard it, you know, like Okay, but this is interesting.

Do you remember where you were when you heard it or does that song take you to where they were when they made it? When takes me like to where I was when I heard it. Okay, interesting. Is there any music that takes you to where they were when they made it?

I don't know. Like the way it sounds. Yeah, maybe. Maybe like Summer Coe's old stuff and things like that.

Like just thinking about like you know them beating around the old scene and things like that. Uh some of that stuff in Ragweed. Uh-huh. I guess that would take me there.

You know, thinking about them at Wormy Dog and stuff like that. Yeah. Why do you think Why do you think that those do that but then the other ones don't? I don't know.

I guess it's a cuz like I've never listened to maybe like some of that To me there's a there's a just say it I guess really simply like there's like a polish that some music has that it sort of just it's so perfect and just like right in your face. It always It always meets me to just where I'm at when I'm listening to it. Right. It sounds great and I can hear everything clearly.

But then there's this rawness to some other music that it allows me to like almost enter to where like you cuz you can hear the room they're in. Right. Yeah, you can hear everything. Right.

Yeah. And it like takes me to where they were. Yeah, that's cool. And I've been fascinated about that Yeah, I haven't thought about that.

for like the last year or two. And I have a theory. I'd be curious what you think about this. I think the music that stands the test of time truly test of time.

Cuz like if you go back to stuff that was like recorded in the '60s, '70s, '80s it's like why does that stuff still like just resonate and seem so popular? And people with every generation have uh connected with it. Mhm. And maybe it is because the music I could be completely wrong.

Maybe that music is just maybe the best music meets you where you're at and Can take you back. and can take you to where they were when they made it. Maybe that is the actual best music. Maybe it's not one or the other.

It might not be that like binary. But then some of the super polished music that seems to just kind of be of a time, I don't know. It's like even some of like the pop Nashville stuff, even some pop music. It's like you can't hear you can't hear them playing it cuz they kind of weren't.

Right. Absolutely. And I don't know if those ones like hold up over time. Yeah, that makes sense cuz there's like a lot of people who, you know, like I'm talking about old like Jason Aldean you know, you weren't there whenever I had the feeling that I had whenever I seen it.

You know what I mean? So don't relate. But when I say like Ragweed's old stuff, you're like, oh yeah, I can totally see. You know what I mean?

Like they met the worm me dog. So yeah. Well, we both like when we're thinking about how that music makes us feel, we're both going to where they were. Right.

That's weird. almost like we can connect more over that rather than just like nostalgic music cuz we both have different experiences of when we first heard something. Absolutely. And there's like something to that and I can't There is, yeah.

There is for sure. I never have thought about that. Yeah, I can't ever like totally and like why do people always say when like an artist gets real big or whatever and they're like, well, their music has changed. Like just doesn't resonate.

It's not typically it starts to get like overly kind of perfected in a way that it kind of takes out like the human element a little bit. Yeah. And then it just like sort of loses who they are. Yeah.

Anyways, that's my that's my theory. But it's like a endless thing to chase, too. Cuz then your ear gets better as you get better and you want to hear it more perfect, yeah. But it's like almost a trick.

Well, you also like you know, the older you get you may just to of change things up, you know, like keep going for a different something or other, different sound and things like that. So maybe that's where it all Yeah, maybe. Polishes up. I don't know.

It's like an endless journey. I just can't quite figure it out. My taste changes so much. That probably is the most frustrating thing about myself.

Same on. I never know what I'm going to do. So but you grew up on like Red Dirt type stuff. There had There had to have been some other like influences, some heavier influences maybe?

Yeah, I didn't I'm not a rocker. Like I don't Really? No. My band My band's are rockers.

Okay. Uh I don't listen to I don't listen to rock music hardly ever. I'm I grew up on like old country like Gary Stewart all that kind of stuff was all I ever did. Um and then like, you know, in high school and stuff I got into you know, some of the bands that were around, Ragweed, Turnpike, uh that kind of stuff.

So I'm sure they played, you know, like that's an influence there. Just getting to watch Cross Canadian Dinosaurs and you know, being able to go down there and actually see the guys uh that were playing in the band and stuff was cool. So I think that's kind of there, but I mean, like the heaviest like influence I would say that I really have is like Mike McClure, you know? I just don't I just never have been a heavy guy.

That's interesting. Yeah. Well, then where did Where did the Well, a lot of your melodies and stuff though aren't like maybe traditional country sounding. Right.

Which I think, you know, like I was saying like in the scene that I was coming up in, like, you know, you got Ragweed and McClure and that and that kind of stuff. Um and they just kind of like opened a box me where I was like, you can just do whatever you want. You know what I mean? It's like you don't have to like I don't have to try to write a Gary Stewart song and then cuz you know, Tyler, my drummer, he's like a metal guy, you know, like he wants to go.

And it's like I don't have to try to write like a Gary Stewart song and then just let him play wild drums to it. Like I can we can meet in the middle here, you know. So, you know, all my band, they're all you know, they like rock, whatever. And I just I just never have got into it.

I just You don't like it? I mean, I like it fine, you know. I mean, if it's on the radio or something, yeah, I'll jam along or, you know, AC/DC and stuff like that. Like I'm in.

I just didn't grow up like Oh man, I found this AC/DC tape. I got to turn it on, you know. So, you didn't go through like any of the grunge punk sort of phase or anything? No.

Not really. Not really at all. Uh I'm trying to think of who like I mean, Skynyrd's always cool. But you know, stuff like that was cool to me, but I never really like even Skynyrd, I wasn't like you know, let's find it and turn it on all day and listen to it or hanging out and stuff.

Like it was always just old country and old whatever else, you know. Yeah, what do you what do you think makes you gravitate more towards that? I don't know. I feel like one part of it was, you know, I used to play an acoustic guitar on stage and we'd kind of go up there and do the old kind of like kind of have like a folky feel to it and stuff.

And it was like everywhere we played, the crowd would just be bored. You know, it's like they don't care about they didn't care about what we were doing. You know, so I was like, man, we got to like we got to rock this thing up and make our people come out and headbang a little bit and hang out and um so as soon as we started doing some stuff like that, you know, people started showing up and uh I could I could tell like it was actually fun to play, you know, it wasn't like just sitting there just for me anyway. I'm not saying that for everybody, but I'm saying like for me, you know, just going out with an acoustic guitar and singing.

I was like, man, I want to party, you know? Like I want to hang out. I want to have a good time and I want to you know, get wild. And I'm like, nobody's getting wild to me covering the damn Quails, you know?

So, I'm like, I got to get got to get wild here. Yeah, so it was actually like what you want to perform live was just almost different than what you maybe enjoyed listening to. Yeah. That's interesting, isn't it?

Yeah. And I wouldn't dig at the damn Quails there. I was just saying nobody wants to hear me cover my stuff. no.

Yeah, yeah. I totally I absolutely get it. But you But your personality is You're a pretty energetic cat. Right.

Right? Yeah. And you like to party. Like to party.

I mean, like to I mean, I don't know about like to party, but like to just, you know, go somewhere and have a good time and everybody be laughing and smiling like you know, I just wasn't into the whole thing where it's like, I'm going to bring 200 people in a room and see if we can't make them cry for an hour, you know? I was like, I just want to hang out and everybody have a good time, and at the end of the night you know, it's a lot more fun, too, with the band, cuz then it opens up, you know, like I said, my guys like the rock, so it's like they can turn them loose and just have a good time. So. Kind of weird, I know.

No, it makes a ton of sense. I can identify with it pretty heavily. Yeah. I think I've gone through that phase probably in the last year or two.

Really? For sure. Where it's Yeah, I think there's just different types of music are just appropriate for different settings. Absolutely.

I've got some like deep heavy stuff, but it's just a little weird sometimes to And like the really deep songwriting stuff sometimes comes off a little pretentious. I've never really loved It just depends on the setting, dude. Like, if I'm sitting there in like a theater and it's a listening room, sure. I'm going to do it.

Like, that's what we're there for. Everybody's kind of on the same page. But I've always felt a little weird like getting up in some kind of just like dive bar or some place where people are just like you're trying to cut loose and have a good time. Yeah, just trying to drink a drink a beer at the bar here.

Yeah, and then what? I'm going to like do like, "Listen to this." You know, uh this super deep song and Right. And if you're not quiet and listen, that makes you an [expletive] It's like, "Ah, that's lame."

Yeah. Come on. Yeah, that's kind of how I felt about it, for sure. And I still write like Not lame.

It's just, you know, you know what I mean. I still write some of that like slower stuff and things like that. And I and I'll book an acoustic set every now and then and go play those songs. And we'll take them in the studio, too, and be like, "Hey, is there anything like we can do here with some of these different kind of You know, we got We're going to try to put one on this album that I wrote that's like you know, it's super slow.

It's about my mom. Like, it's kind of weird, but we're trying to make it where it's like kind of rocked up and fun a little bit. Rocked up? Yeah, to where it's not just Trying to rock it up, make it fun.

Make it fun. For that song about your mom. Yeah, we're uh just trying to figure it out. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like endless. Uh but it has been the same band the whole time? Whole time.

Gosh. Yeah, we've been the same dudes. Everybody gets along pretty good, though, I guess. Yeah.

No huge blow-ups? No. Nothing too crazy. when we were you know, when we first started, obviously there was kind of you know, everybody kind of trying to figure out who they wanted to be and stuff.

But now it's like we've been we've been on the road for I think it's like 9 years together. And so it's like we had just another day, everybody hanging out. It kind of it's cool in some ways, it hurts in some ways. But What do you What do you mean?

What? Like it's awesome that uh you know, it's the same guys for 9 years. Like, it's the coolest thing ever, but there's like you know, if you hire a guy Yeah, I'll take one. But if you hire a guy, you know, or something like that, you're like, "Hey, man, come out and play guitar with me."

And he messes up, you can be like, "Hey, dude, you know, uh mess up tonight. like you'll get them next time and us it's like if you do something wrong in the show or something like that like we've been on the road we're like brothers, you know, we've been on the road for like 9 years. So, it's like as soon as you mess up like you're the laughing stock of us for the next 5 days, you know. It's like it's like instead of going to work with a coworker you go to work with your brothers every day, you know.

And then it's like whenever we get home Monday or Sunday cuz the way that we roll like we're probably doing something together Monday. So, it's like if you got any problems with anybody over the weekend you got the ride home Sunday to figure them out because it makes it harder to deal with like if there's something that you want somebody to do differently if it's just a hired gun it's relatively easy to be like, "Hey, I need you to do this." Right. And be like hyper direct.

But, if you have those added elements of like all this friendship and years and like you're like family sometimes it's more difficult to have to maybe even criticize or anything. Yeah, it and it is a little bit um and we all four like run into it just cuz we're like, "Man, we don't want to like you know, and I'm not saying that everybody hates their hired guitar player. I'm just saying like, you know, my guitar player I'm like, "Hey, I don't want to say anything that like hurt his feelings or not you know like that's my brother." Yeah.

So, it's like you know, if something goes on like if you don't like the way I'm doing something or I don't like the way he's doing something uh it does take a second for everybody to come around. But, we're normally pretty good about just being like, "Hey, dude, you kind of suck." Something super constructive though. Yeah.

Like, "Hey, you suck." Yeah. Hey, man. You kind of suck.

I wish you would Dude, I can't you know what I mean? I can't do passive aggressive. Passive aggressive is my freaking when I hear that stuff. Which makes me be like pretty direct I try to be like really direct which sometimes is jarring for people.

Yeah, it really can be. But, like I'm not uh I'm typically not going to say something behind your back that I'm not going to just freaking Just let you know. say to you. Yeah.

It's weird, too. Like some You're married, right? Yes, sir. Marriage is just like that.

Right. It's like if you can get past that whole idea of not being passive-aggressive and just being really direct, you can actually start to grow to appreciate it. Yeah, it works out a lot better. I think.

I mean, I'm talking like I got it all figured out. It's hard, though, dude. Especially when you care about somebody, it's hard to be direct cuz you don't want to hurt their feelings. Absolutely.

But then letting it sit there and fester just makes it worse. Way worse. And then you end up saying it anyway in the end with more words than you thought you was going to. Uh if you let it fester.

Yeah. You just let it fester up. Oh, yeah. And your mind will just start making up some wild stories.

Then it Then it's a hour-long deal instead of Hey. Do this. Dude, I saw a thing the other day and it was a psychologist talking about uh like just expressing your thoughts and stuff. I'm going to butcher this, too, but I think it was something like with your uh cuz I guess your like frontal lobe is where you like your decision-making ability happens or something.

But part of I guess therapy or talking to somebody about your problems, they were saying that like part of what actually helps you uh organize your thoughts. I guess your brain has to go through another process when you actually put it into words, your thoughts. And your brain will kind of auto-correct certain things for you if they don't make sense. Cuz your mind can just make up some wild stories.

Like even if like when you're dating somebody, right? And it's like I think they're cheating on me. Um that thought in your head can run wild and create a bunch of stories and stuff, right? Make sense of all of it.

But then the second you like say it to somebody, uh I think they're cheating on me. It's like if it's if that's just a wild accusation most people anyways, your brain will kind of take it'll almost say like come on, dude. Yeah, take a second. Take a second.

you have to explain it. Well, I mean they stayed here this one night and it's like you're being ridiculous. Your brain will almost do it but you apparently it has to go through like another phase That's crazy. of considering it.

So, it's like in a marriage, you know, you think you're you've like you're like pissed about something. I do it all the time. Like there will be like little tiny things me too. that get me like kind of worked up and then like the second I actually consider saying it to her I will automatically just be like that's ridiculous.

You're being a [expletive] Or whatever. I normally just try to sleep. I'm like before I say anything, I'm just going to I'm going to take a nap. Sleep on it and then wake up in the morning I'm like, yeah, that was dumb.

All right, well haven't you ever have Well, I've had a bunch of old people tell me like never go to bed mad. Right. I just I'd like to do that. I me too.

to just go to bed mad and wake up happy. Cuz I'm like now I don't have to I don't have to say anything now Okay, hold on. But are now are you are you just like avoiding it? No, I'm just saying like if it's what if it if it's one of those little things and I'm like do I say anything?

Do I not? Like and then you just go to sleep and then wake up in the morning I'm like, okay, yeah, it's still pissing me off. Like all right, I got to let it out or I'm like, you know what? I'll just I slept last night and today's a new day and I think everything's okay.

Yeah, have you ever noticed too if you just Yeah, if you give it a little bit of time, there will be something else that pops up that like This is probably horrible but uh All right, let's say they do something that you're like, I really don't like that. That really bugs me. You don't bring it up. You give it a little bit of time.

Then you do something that you know pisses them off. Yeah. And then they don't Not on purpose but it just kind of happens through life and it almost like kind of like levels the playing field a little. Like just try not to freaking jump all over him for like some little stuff cuz you're probably going to do something Absolutely.

in 5 minutes that's ridiculous. I do it every 5 minutes. Yeah, you tell me. You are telling me.

How does she How long you've all been together? Oh, like I think 6 years. Yeah, so she's been in it. Yeah, she's been she's been through it all.

And she was on the rise. Yeah, she's a she's been around a long time. Sings out. So.

She uh she kind of got in, you know, early on the band thing and whenever we kind of first got together, I met her at a show. So um she kind of knew what the band thing was about and stuff and the more it's went on and stuff, she's always just been like go with the flow, you know, she'll make whatever happen that needs to happen and uh she don't complain about it too much. She just carries on. It takes a special person.

For sure. For sure. I will say like me and her are both built kind of the same way where it's like you know I love her to death, she loves me to death. After about 3 days at home together if it's just me and her hanging out, like we got to go.

I got to go somewhere else, she's got to go somewhere else for a day. We'll meet back in the middle on day four, you know. So we can't just sit in her at the house, you know. So she's got a little bit of an independent spirit to her.

Yeah. Yeah. She likes to hang out a few days and then we'll go for a day and then come back together for a day. Do y'all ever have uh the awkward like first or two for one or two days back where you've been gone for a while?

Yes. I'm the worst at that. I'm the world's worst at that [expletive] How does it usually Like I feel like when I walk in the house, I can't even like walk like how I was when I was leaving, you know, I'm like is this how I walked when I left, you know, I'm like I don't know. It's kind of like when you're like a kid and you come home at like midnight and you haven't been drinking but your parents like if you've been drinking and then you just act drunk on accident, you know?

It's like [expletive] I'm not even I haven't drank anything but Am I walking different? Yeah. Yeah, that's funny if she if she would accuse you of that. Yeah, that would be that would be pretty weird.

I hope she doesn't now. She probably will. And then you get more self-conscious. Yeah.

How do you How do you think you walk different? No, I wasn't saying that specifically. I'm not saying that specifically. This is fun.

It's a fun idea. I like to think about how you thought you were walking and then now do you think it's like feet a little further apart or do they get closer together? Yeah, maybe just kind of tone together or something. Yeah, you get a little pigeon-toed on the road.

a little pigeon-toed when I come home from the road. Yeah. It's better than getting duck-footed on the What's worse? Becoming pigeon-toed or duck-footed?

Duck-foot seems more sure-footed than pigeon. You think so? I mean you're wider. So much So technically the toes Yeah.

more stable. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Pigeon seems like you could fall over forward. Yeah, those knees are just buckling on you.

Yeah. Turn into the McDonald's arches on you. That's not good. No.

They collapse. Fold up. Yeah, so you feel like you probably are getting a little pigeon-toed. Little pigeon little road toe out there.

Little road toe. Yeah, it's definitely that coming home is like it's weird. Especially when there's [expletive] to do. You know, it's like okay, you're going to get here Sunday at noon and then at 2:00 we're going to my mom's for dinner and it's like oh no.

Oh, and you haven't even like reconnected yet. Yeah, you Yeah, like you just like get home for a second. You're like hey, what's up? And you get in the car and you try to get over there and it's just like what the [expletive] is going on?

Do you sense Does she Does she get like almost a little like you can't just like walk right back waltz right back into life and just we pick up right. I get that sense with my wife where there's almost like a hold on, give me a second to readjust to you just like walking back in here. No, she doesn't get that. Really?

No, I walk in the door and she's just ready to go. Ready to pick her back up. Funny. But you're it's a little jarring for you.

Yeah. Okay. I just with that road toe. Got the road toe going on.

road I try to play the part. manager too. Yeah, there's always like this like day or two. I've had a couple other guys explain it to where it's just, you know, takes a second to get back into the rhythm of the does the rhythm of the road.

What's the longest that y'all have toured? I think probably three weeks. Yeah. Yeah, and then in a van?

Um we took a bus on that one. No [expletive] Yeah. Damn. Maybe we take a bus on that one.

Well, that's different. We've been out in a van uh I mean we'll do like, you know, two weeks, two and a half weeks every now and then in a van and stuff like that. Uh but normally we try to we've been taking the bus lately. So, hopefully keep taking that.

Yeah. Did you buy Did you buy one? No. After taxes, what did you make last year?

We just leased one. Uh our management company, they have one that Who's your management company? A Mid-South Talent. So, it's a guy from uh the city Cole Lauderdale.

He kind of started a little management company. He's got us and Noah Bowman. Uh Wait, Noah Bowman? Mhm.

Why does that sound so familiar? He's good. Noah Bowman? I feel like I've listened to him.

Yeah. Yeah, he's awesome, man. Super cool song out. out of Nashville?

Where are they from? Uh he's from city or he's from uh Long Grove, I think, but I think he lives up in the city now. The management company or Noah? Uh Noah used to live in Long Grove, now lives in the city.

Cole lives in the city. And Cole is Mid-South. Mid-South talent, yeah. Noah Bowman, why do I freaking know that?

Yeah, so he's kind of like a boutique uh management agency. But they got a bus and we rented out around then, so. That's pretty slick. Not bad.

Not at all. But you did the van thing for a while. Long time. Way too long.

Like passenger van, small thing. Yeah, we bought a we bought a church van off a church there in Walters. It was like I think we paid 1,500 bucks for it. I didn't even pay for it.

I don't know who paid. I don't know which one of the boys bought it or what happened, but we took this thing everywhere for like 4 years. It was like a little $1,500 beat-up piece of [expletive] had no AC. We slept in it, too.

Like we just threw some blankets and we just stayed in the van wherever we were at, you know. Yeah. You got any kids? No kids.

No kids. No kids. Maybe soon. Yeah, have you figured out how?

Yeah, I think I got the how figured out. I'm still working on that one. Okay. Yeah, I just can't freaking quite get it, you know?

I need uh We toured a lot this year and I'm hoping we're going to tour a lot next year, so we're kind of trying to wait and see what goes on there, but then soon as things settle down a little bit, we're going to start popping kids out, I hope. Yeah, it's I have a theory that when you get big enough, like yeah, you're gone more, but there's so much stuff that changes that makes it so much more conducive to like being married and having kids. Right. You Yeah, you're gone more, you're working more.

Well, and you should be making more money, too, which makes stuff a lot easier, too. But then even, dude, you know, like going and just playing like dingy dive bars and like being able to I mean, you have to uh you a lot of those stages like you get off and like you got to like hang out with everybody. Absolutely. And there's just you know, it's just more opportunities to like get yourself in trouble probably.

As opposed to like these bigger things you like you can just go right back to your green room. your bus, go to whatever, get on the road. yeah. The hard times for sure are the grinding it out in the small clubs and stuff.

Which I could say earlier we've been on the road like 10 years and we've eight, nine, I don't know how many years I keep saying I don't know how long we've even been on the road. But we are less apt to take a van than another band that's our age cuz we've rode in a van for just so long that I'm like, "Dude, this sucks, you know? Like I do not want to take the van for 2 weeks and go drive around." No.

No, yeah, what a different not a freaking different thing. Yeah. And then like when gigs are you know beyond when they get to like that 8 hours away Yeah. it's like, "All right, well, after the gig we got to get in three or four hours."

So, at 2:00 a. m. you got to drive till whatever. Yeah.

5:00 or 6:00 or 7:00, 8:00. Get you know cuz you cuz you're going to still have the other 5 hours or so. You got to get home. Yeah, then you got to rent a hotel at 3:00 in the morning.

check for the next day. Yeah. Yeah. That's some of the stuff with We try to steer clear of that.

That being that far or what? No, just try to steer clear of just having to take the van, which we just did it last month. So, we don't do a very good job of steering clear. But um it happens, but for the most part we try to uh we try to make it where we're kind of just hanging out.

Yeah, that's a lot of the stuff with people getting really popular very quickly. Yeah. There dude, there's so much just I don't know what you call it. Like I there's just a lot of stuff that nobody considers.

What does your voice sound like after people forced you to do a bunch of shots and then you sang a 2-hour show and then you had to stand there and talk to everybody for an hour after it. It's a loud bar. Mhm. What and then you drove 3 or 4 hours till 5:00 a.

m. and then you didn't really get any sleep and then you all loaded in at 3:00 p. m. and you got to play a show the next day.

What's your voice feel like, you know? Like that's stuff that you just learn how to Yeah, you just got to learn to stay away or But I dude, I can't imagine. When you can go when you can't. Yeah.

Or like learning how to freaking Yeah, that is that would be crazy trying to like just like get Like if you just got big, you know, like overnight and had to figure all that stuff out. Like that would take There's so many little things like that. Absolutely. I mean [expletive] even the idea of like conflict resolution.

How do you tell whatever, the guitar player this thing about Yeah. in the second verse he does this weird thing that you hate. Or do you even tell him? You know?

No kid Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, maybe you don't know you're not supposed to tell him. Right. Yeah.

Let that one slide. Yeah, let her let her go. There's bigger There's bigger battles out there. I don't I don't envy it, man.

I really don't. When I was 17 I would have been an absolute wreck. I'm borderline a wreck now. Same.

I would have been no good. Like if our band would have got big when I was young, there would there would have been no helping me. Really? Yeah.

What? Like what would have been the I just would have been drinking, going crazy, just, you know, acting an ass. If I had money like that, I'd have had it all. It'll all It'd all been gone and No perspective.

Yeah. I'd have been working at McDonald's now. Just have it all blown and Probably have a pretty good 401k, though. Yeah, good.

You Good benefits package. Yeah. Better than now, probably. Yeah.

You know. Probably better health insurance, at least. I'm just trying to look on the bright side here. We just got health insurance.

You did? Yes. Gosh. We're moving up.

You are. For the whole band? Mhm. Dang.

We're all insured. That's sick. That is cool. Have you ever had it?

Yeah, so I worked for OSU. Uh Um What a weird way to find out that out that you worked for OSU is by way of Have you ever had health insurance before? But I worked for OSU. I farmed for them for like 5 years, and I had good state benefits and all that.

What did you do for them? Just farmed. What were you doing what? Uh so it's like a research farm.

Um it's like uh new different kind of wheats and stuff that are coming out. Like there's like wheats that are like you know. Help your joints, and wheats that are low in gluten, and wheats that do certain things, and we just researched all that stuff, and Did you go to school there? No.

I did not. Okay. Did you go to college at all? I did not.

Okay. Went to college one day. Family farmed, or what? No, I just always been I mean, our family had a farm outside of town, but I mean, in Walters you know, growing up, everybody around there farmed.

Um And it was always something I was just super like I just loved the idea of getting on a tractor and just driving all day, not worrying about nothing else, you know. Um so, I was just trying to do as much of it as I could, and then I seen that job opening at OSU, and uh it was in Chickasha, which is north of me like 30 minutes. So, uh I applied there and got on, and uh just went over there and farmed. So, they were doing a bunch of research.

Yeah. So, would there be s- I don't know what type of person's doing that type of What is that called? A person that does that research? Well, so like the professors and stuff up at the in the students that are up at the college are the ones that do like the actual uh like numbers and that kind of stuff.

Um I was just like the guy that would like be like, "Okay, we're going to plant this field in the blue wheat." You know, and then you go plant the I'll go out there and set the planter up and plant and uh do that kind of stuff, which I had you know, there was three of us that worked there, so we just kind of did whatever, you know, if they wanted this field, which they do a lot of seed increases, too, so it's like if the blue wheat does do good Sorry, I know this is just dragging on, but if the blue wheat asking. It's interesting to me. If the blue wheat uh you know, say it does good and it makes, you know, everybody's like, "Yeah, we like it.

The research is good." Well, then they have to have land to be able to grow that blue wheat to double and triple the what they can sell of it, you know. So, it'd be like, "Hey, we got 10 bags of this. Go plant it over here and go do that and this and you plow and cut and do all that."

So. Huh. Just farmed. Yeah, I don't I don't really know [expletive] about farming.

Yeah, I like to farm. Do you have land now? I don't have any land. We live in town now.

I had land outside of town and then we moved to town. Uh we bought a house in town. Um it got to be too much uh with me trying to go on the road and trying to do my stuff like um which I live in a family house that my family kind of you know, they kind of took back over and stuff. Um Took back over some of the land and stuff and then ended up selling it.

But uh it just got to be where it was like, you know, my yard's 3 acres and I'm home 3 days. So, it's like I can't mow. You know, so I moved into town, so that way now I just hire a guy to mow. I don't have to worry like when I get home, shit's everything's okay, You know.

Yeah. So, the OSU deal, you said you worked there 5 years? Yeah, it was like 5 years total. So, did you move up there?

Close? No, no, it was in Chickasha there. That's right. Okay.

They had a station that was north of me like 30 miles. And you were just What was like your daily like job typically? I mean, it just depend on what was going on. Like if it was, you know, if it's if it's wheat cutting season, then we're cutting wheat.

If it's hay season, we're cutting hay. Um planting, spraying, fertilizing. Uh checking. There's a lot of stuff, too, like a lot of little companies and stuff that'll come through like uh these companies that put the little things under the round bales and they say like keeping your round bales off the ground and makes them last longer if you put them up on something.

So, you know, we'd have those companies come through and stuff and uh you know, had to go meet with them in the morning and lift up bales for them to put [expletive] under there and do whatever they wanted to do. Um But, that was about it. Just kind of farming, you know. Would you normally have to Would you write music while you were working?

Yeah, oh yeah. A ton of songs like That's what I like about being on the tractor is like, you know, you can't really be on your phone cuz you got to cut straight. Um or do whatever, you know, whatever you're doing. Plant straight, cut straight and stuff like that.

And it's like they pretty much just put you alone with yourself for hours, you know. And uh I normally just sit there and come up with stuff and write whatever. Melodies pop in your head? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Then you have nothing else to do. Nothing. Just sit there and keep writing on them.

I'd like record them for a second, send them to Sam, and send them to whoever and be like, "Hey, is this cool or is this stupid? Like, what is this?" And then you know, end up writing a bunch of songs that way. Do you think there's something about your mind being sort of preoccupied with something else to a certain degree.

I think so. Almost kind of frees you up a little bit. Yeah. I think so.

It just kind of makes it where it's like you know, you kind of got something going on, but then you're like, "Okay, but the rest of it's all blank." And you just got time to sit there and nothing to do but write songs, really. I mean other than drive around in a circle. Yeah, some people might wonder well, how do you they try to muster up the creative moment or something.

Mhm. And it's like, well but nowadays everybody's just chronically entertained. They like I mean, you just sit there and watch somebody at a bar or something and it's like, if there's not somebody talking to them or they're not watching the TV or something's not like the phone is out immediately. Absolutely.

Like even just the idea of just standing there and being I have to prac- I try to practice it. I do, too. I try to stay I try to stay off. And then ain't it crazy how uncomfortable it is?

Yeah, it is weird cuz it's a good it's a good uh it's like, okay, this guy's sitting at the bar. It's almost became weird, you know? It's like if there's a guy at the bar and he's like not playing on his phone, it's like, "What are you doing, weirdo?" It is.

And if he's just looking around Yeah, it's like, "Oh, what's this creep doing, man?" Looking around and looking for somebody to talk to. He looks like a phone, man." God, doesn't that suck?

Yeah, it's weird. Because there is a part of it, too, that they kind of usually are a creep. Yeah, that's the that's the biggest deal and I'm terrible about like I don't mind like I'm a friendly guy, right? I like to go to the bar.

I like to do stuff, but there's times when I'm at the bar like I'll just get on my phone cuz I'm like, "I don't want anybody to talk to me." Like just pull up a seat and start being like, "Hey, man, what's you know guess what I did last week." I'm like, "Dude, guess who gives a [expletive] I'm at the bar drinking a beer right now." Do you let them answer?

I just I always talk to everybody like Guess who gives a [expletive] You just stare at him. Yeah. But I can't stand like stuff like that. Like you get in the elevator in the morning Dude, I don't I don't have to.

like, "Hey man, rough night last night?" And it's like, "Hey man, I'm in the [expletive] elevator going down, okay? That's what I'm doing, okay?" to do this.

I give a how are you. Yeah. Hey, how are you? Yeah, that's not bad.

Okay. Just what's up, you know. Yeah. Hey yeah, this is me This is me getting into an elevator with you.

We don't know each other, okay? And I go "Hey, how are you?" And you say "Guess who gives a shit?" And then but we're on like the 30th floor.

Yeah, and then we have to go all the way down. Dude, and like everybody's leaving that morning. So it's like we stop on almost every floor. I feel like this came off more dickie than I was trying to make it come off.

That's not exactly what I was saying. I actually really enjoy it. I just hate them people like you get on the elevator and they're like, "Hey man, where are you from?" It's like I was like, "Dude, come on, man."

Ew. It's like you're fixing to get off. I'm fixing to [expletive] go the other way like we're not going to know You don't know me. Dude, here's the humbling one cuz I'm big on I like I like to like just go sit at a bar or something and but I usually have my phone out and I'm watching something like I have my earbuds in or something like that.

And like I'm not really there to talk or whatever. Uh but the humbling one is whenever the It's like read the room. I got my earbuds in. I'm clearly not like paying attention to you and somebody will like tap you on the shoulder and like you know, try to And then so it's like, "Okay, I take them out."

You start chatting a little bit. I was in an airport like 2 weeks ago and this guy next to me like did that exact thing. Started chatting to me. I was not having it.

Uh and then we sat there and ended up talking for like 2 hours. He was like super cool cat. We had a fun time laughing, laughing with the bartender. Yeah, those are good.

And then I was like, "Well, shoot." Yeah. You know, what an [expletive] Like I so didn't want to talk to this guy, but then he just leaned into it harder. Yeah.

And then I was like, "You know what? Thanks for that, man." Yeah. But there's been other ones, too, where I'm like, "Damn.

I wish this guy would not have talked to me." Yeah, absolutely. But sometimes it's humbling. Yeah, it can be cool.

Yeah. I just get uh I don't know. It's a weird spot for me. I'm always just like, "Man, can we just [expletive] we all just go about our day here?"

Yeah. Yeah, well, I'm a chit-chatter. Sort of. I mean, it's just at different times.

Right. Read the room. There's certain times I'm chit-chatters. Like if, you know, if I'm if I'm a you know, if I if I'm in a big room and everybody's cool in there and I know everybody and stuff and I'm like, "Oh man, I just want to go in here and have a good time and hang out."

You know, like drink a few beers and start chatting with people. Like, yeah, it's whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I'm Yeah, I actually had to force myself to be way more outgoing than I naturally was.

I think I need to do a little of that. Little self-assessment and kind of be more Cuz I used to be like super like, "Hey man, what's going on?" You know, now I'm more like just got to stay back. Interesting.

Yeah, I think I need to go back a little bit. I don't know. I mean, it's all based off other people's perception. The only reason I forced myself to do that is cuz I was a relatively quiet in high school.

I mean, with friends and stuff, obviously I was outgoing and whatever. But I was pretty reserved. Um and then even going into college, I was kind of like that. But then I heard through the grapevine from enough people where that's like, "He's kind of a dick."

And I'm like, "What? Why?" And they're like, "Well, you don't talk. Like you're just kind of quiet and like you think you're better than everybody."

And I'm like, "Oh, well, okay. That's not what it is." But since But I can't change how somebody feels about me. You know what I mean?

Yeah, absolutely. Like if somebody says like, "You're an asshole." It's like, "No, I'm not." Like, like, it's kind of not up for you to decide really if they think you're an asshole."

So, it's like, "Oh, shoot. I need to be more outgoing." Or else somebody just thinks I'm pretentious. Yeah, I feel like I should do it more just because maybe that guy on the elevator does turn into that 2-hour conversation like you were talking about.

I feel like I miss those opportunities by just telling people God, but sometimes the conversation is exactly like you thought it was going to be. And then you're like, "No." Which dude, honestly, there's something even still good about that one. Like leaving that conversation and just going, "Gosh."

Yeah. [expletive] And sometimes they're just they just need somebody to download all their stuff onto, and you just unfortunately were that hard drive. there and here they come. Yeah, you go to Nashville much?

Oh, I go every now and then. I'm not I'm not big on it. I'm not big on it out there for that. Honestly, this reason.

Oh. Like just going out there and everybody be like, "Hey, what I'm like, "Oh, dude, please. Please, dude." You get around showbiz or entertainment anywhere, and people are just Yeah, there's a lot of insufferable They're very friendly and very outgoing and stuff.

And I just I'm like, "Hey." Well, sort some of them. Whether or not it's genuine is the That's the thing. They're all friendly and outgoing.

It's just all Most of them are just kind of weirdos. Yeah, I'll get Yeah, I don't know, man. It's just a showbiz thing. And Nashville gets a bad rap.

Um sort of. I mean, but it's mainly just If you got enough people that are all like attention-seeking in one confined place. Absolutely. Like it don't matter if that was in Fort Worth.

If you got enough Yeah, exactly. You get enough of those people, and there's just going to be some weirdos. Yeah. Cuz there's plenty of them that they're only in some of this stuff.

And social media's made it worse cuz you're able to fake it. You can get a lot of attention without actually like being very good or anything. Right. Uh and so you just get those attention-seeking type people just and then they're all on top of each other and then you just thrust somebody like you in the middle of that and you're like oh.

Yeah, it gets weird. I do think that you know, I went up to Nashville a few months ago and wrote and stuff and I do love the way that like those guys wake up in the morning and they're ready to write, ready to go. You know, that's something that I don't have like you know, it's like we got a Tuesday ride, a Wednesday ride, a Thursday ride and it's like I don't have the wake up every morning and write gene, you know. Like I respect probably force yourself to do it.

Right. That's true. But I'm like I respect the hustle of everybody getting up in the morning. Everybody's ready to go to work.

Like that's what you got to do. I love it cuz it'll just like I can totally I mean my mind gets completely consumed by music and writing Right. while I'm there and it's literally just day after day Yeah. and then at some point like I can't even turn it off.

Like I'm just like making dinner that night and it's just incessant. Yeah. Right? And so I can see how you can if I would I but I can't live there.

Like I can't my daily existence can't be that. Right. Cuz I will just I just completely become obsessed with it. Yeah.

I do love that going out there does that though. Cuz that's I mean that's really fun like especially like you know, like we were starting this album and stuff and I mean I'm excited to start the album. I don't know what direction, I don't know how I feel about it. Like I don't know what kind of I want to do and stuff and so I was like I'll cut to Nashville for a week and hang out and so when you go out there it's like the pages just turn and turn, you know, it's like man, I really do want to you know, like I really do want to go this direction.

I really do like this. Like instead of being at home and being like oh, I don't I don't know about it. It's like up there it's like you're thinking all the time, ready to go, wheels are turning, like everybody's moving around. There's and there is a ton of good songwriters.

Like Oh, bro. It's crazy. Yeah. Ton of them, man.

Like you'll just stumble into some places for a write or whatever. Mhm. And then now it's gotten so crazy with guys that like I mean they have full-blown studios in their house. Absolutely.

And they're slick. Yeah. Really great with ProTools and Oh, yeah. like and you can like cut a full demo in like a couple hours.

Yeah. And they got all sorts of sounds. Oh, no, I got that one to show you. Yeah.

And this is like a songwriter dude. Yeah. But yeah, the yeah, it's like the barrier to entry is higher there, which I can really appreciate. Yeah.

Absolutely. but man, at the same time like out here you like almost get a there's just a little bit more of an independent spirit. So you get maybe a little bit more authenticity Yeah. outside of Nashville, you know?

And that's not that's not even you know, I think if you just get enough creatives all doing the same thing in one area, you're going to start to lack Yeah. like authenticity to a certain degree. Well, it gets to it gets a little it gets from being, you know, like you're saying like one person is now five. Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's like these five people are writing this one song instead of this one and it's like it just keeps getting bigger and bigger until it's 100 people are writing the same song, you know? Yeah, and I can find it when I'm there, and you know, I'll get stuck on like a certain idea or maybe certain phrases and maybe on the Tuesday you came up with like a few lines in a song that you thought was pretty dope. Mhm.

Nobody else is really feeling it. It didn't work. The next day you're in a completely different song and then it's like you're kind of using those lines in that one. And then the next day it's like you find yourself, you're like, wait, did I use that in this one?

I can't remember. Wait, what about and then it starts to like So I actually empathize with some music starting to sound the same and then like certain words popping up all over the place and stuff cuz it's like you know, they're just humans and we're talking like, you know, there's guys that are doing three or four writes in a day. Absolutely. And like I empathize with them maybe using the same lines in another one.

Like they genuinely don't know. Yeah. Melody start to sound the same. So why it's like cool with guys like you where you're out of it going into that world.

I bet you've been hit with some people where they're like where they're like, "Oh man, your shit's just like different. That's different than the way that I would have like approached it." And some of those cats that are in like Nashville Yeah. they have a hard time kind of breaking out of that stereotypical way of doing things.

Yeah. So I think it's fun to like inject yourself into that. Yeah, it is. And then get out.

Yeah. Then come on back home. I do wish there was more of like a central hub in Texas or Oklahoma where it was like from like a networking standpoint, from a just creative standpoint there was more of like a like a location where it's like Yeah, that would be cool. Dude, the amount of people I go to Nashville and I just go to Red Door and I bump into like everybody from out here.

And it's like, "Sh- Why haven't we gotten together?" Like Yeah. And it's like then we're all the way out here. This is You live 2 hours from me.

Yeah, that's Red Door's the only place I ever go and there's always like this last time I was there I seen Mason Lively and like four other guys come through there and I'm like we could have we could have done this at home and drove 2 hours to do this. It's cuz we don't have any like agreed upon location. Right. Like go hang there.

This is the bar to go to. Yeah. We need a Red Door. We do.

We need a Red Door. What would it be called? Can't call it Red Door. Can't be a Red Door.

So I got a weird story about the Red Door in a minute. Uh What is it? You want it now? Is it a fight?

No, it was no fight. Okay. Cuz I got a couple good ones, too. So me and my wife went on vacation to Destin.

They have a Red Door in Destin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we go to Destin down there and we hang out at the Red Door for like a week. And uh the whole time we're down Red Door there is not they don't even like it's not the same.

It's not the same at all, but it's on the beach. It's kind of open. It's pretty cool. So, this last time I was in Nashville these people walk in and I'm like holy [expletive] I was like I know these people.

I didn't know from where. But I was like I know these people that are here. So, they walk in they give me a hug like everything's cool and I'm like holy [expletive] I'm like I know I've seen these people before. And I like couldn't figure out what was going on.

So, I like text my wife. I'm like hey, I'm like I'm seeing two people here that like I know I've seen before. I'm like I'm not putting them together. I'm like here's what they look like I like trying to get her to be like yeah, it's this you know, it's these people or whatever.

Well, turns out they're having the Red Door's like 10th or 100th or whatever it was anniversary of being the Red Door. And it was a bartenders from Destin. Woah. And they flew to Nashville.

And I guess they recognized me from like being at Destin. And anyway, they came in there and I was like it was so weird because like I didn't make an impact at the Red Door in Destin. You know what I mean? Like I may have said two words to these people.

And like they just like walked in here like I they knew like I was their friend for life, you know? you spent every day there. I we went by there every day. Oh, okay.

You know what I mean? Like we had stuff we were doing and stuff. It just like hit Shows you how my brain works. It was just so crazy cuz I was like In my head you were there from open to close every day in Destin.

No. No, but it was just so crazy to me. I'm like these people how many people do they see come through there a year? Yeah.

And these people just like remembered me. Did you go Did you go in Destin did you go down uh It was so wild. You know how there's the bar like a little further down to the water? Like where if you're at the Red Door and then you walk towards the water there's like a little dive open-air kind of dive bar but they always have bands playing there.

Yes. Did you go in there at all? yeah. What's that thing called?

I can't remember the Boat House or something. Yeah, it's got like dollar bills everywhere? Yeah. Yeah.

Did they have bands playing there a bunch? They had one band. Okay. I think we caught Yeah.

Yeah, the one band I think. Okay. It was inter- cuz we just went like a month ago. I think.

Yeah. And they we went there pretty much every night to just and they had like It was inter- you know, music the popularity of certain types of music it like always starts in the indie underground world. Mhm. And then it moves into that next phase and then it becomes the new popular thing but there's like a I don't know, probably 5 to 10-year lag time.

Mhm. Like with the stuff that's happening like at the ground floor in the underground [expletive] basically in 5 to 10 years is going to be like what pop music is. Mhm. And I mean you see that with country now like the honky-tonk country thing.

Mhm. Down here? That shit's been played in dive bars for Yeah, it's been going on here. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh and then now it's just hitting the super popular phase of it so uh anyways that Boat House place it was like every night they had these like indie grunge rock type bands uh which was which was interesting cuz that's my theory is that type of rock and roll with like a with more of like a vintage throwback vibe to it guitar driven I think that's going to be the next popular thing. Yeah. I just observe like that. I like whenever there's somebody that's Have you ever seen that meme where it's like it's the guy looking back at the girls uh and they're the girls' faces are like Yeah.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. when you play their favorite band before it's their favorite band. Mhm. I really try to pay attention to that when I'm out at places and there's somebody that I kind of don't respect their opinion about like creative things.

They You know, it's the type of person that never likes something purely because they like it. They only like it when everybody else likes it, if that makes sense. I try to talk to those types of people and try to get a pulse on like, "So, what are you into right now?" You know, and it's typically some thing that I know 10 years ago they would have hated, right?

Absolutely. Uh I try to find out what they hate now. Like, "Were you into this type of stuff?" "Oh, no, that's weird.

That's lame." I'm like, "Okay, so in 5 to 10 years that's going to be the hot thing." Yeah, that makes sense. what I mean?

It's like almost the opposite. can just run the cycle. Yeah. Yeah, in a way.

Obviously, you can't like perfectly do that. Yeah. That makes sense, though. It's almost the sad There's a like a well-known investor that I was like reading his book or whatever.

This guy named Peter Lynch and he had this theory called the cock- It's just like the cocktail napkin theory and he said he's going He'd like go to parties and uh he'd like talk He'd try to find the dumbest people at the party, the people he respected the least, and he would ask them opinions about certain stocks or like investment ideas. And then, you know, if they would say, like, "Oh, you know, this is hot. Like, you should really buy this." He would go and like short the stock.

He'd find the dumbest person do the opposite of what they're basically doing. It was like a whole chapter in his book. That's wild. Yeah, crazy.

And he like made a lot of money doing it. And it wasn't that sophisticated. No, that's not. So, that goes back to your, you know, the guy in the airport that you don't want to talk to.

You might You might get some good info from him. You know? Yeah, missing all the combos that are you can back side of the napkin combos. Yeah.

Yeah, my last airport one, the guy was he'd led off with because he saw my hat and then he let off with I used to be a bull rider and I was like oh here we go. Here we go. You been around that world much rodeo or anything? Yeah my grandpa rodeos stuff and I him and my uncle they rodeo quite a bit growing up at team roped so oh cool I was around that.

Yeah. You didn't really get into it? No I mean I would rope with them just you know whatever appease them but I wasn't really too good. Yeah it didn't really catch you.

No. Yeah. Not really. I'm a big I'm a big horse guy.

Don't really like being around Just spooky is there sneaky feet? Yeah they're just kind of kind of weird me out. Not to be trusted. Yeah.

And who dude who makes that kind of commitment to a shoe? Yeah it's that commitment to a shoe is pretty next level. That's why I'm you're seeing Arthur with Russell Brand. Oh dude that's like a legendary movie.

I'm fixing to go ride a horse hunting. Oh like elk hunting? Um now we're going so I got a buddy who just owns a big ranch. Uh down in Quana and uh anyway we're just going to go ride horses over there and like just tent camp and uh whatever we can hunt.

Take all the thermals and stuff pig hunting and whatever. Yeah. Just go do that so. Yeah.

we're riding horses I don't know what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah that'd be badass. I really want to do the like packing in with mules or something.

Yeah that'd be cool. I'm not a big I don't like love hunting. See like I'm on the other end of that one. Yeah.

Where it's like the rodeo stuff I love. Did I didn't get to do it growing up but I fell in love with it later. But then hunting I don't know like I'll take a deer I love the food. That's what gets me jazzed up.

Absolutely. I'm a big food man. I'm a huge food man. Really?

Favorite? What's your favorite? For steak. Oh, for Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. You like to cook steak? Yeah, dude. I cook Every night I'm home, I'm cooking, dude.

What's your How do you cook it? Just turn her up, S&P. Okay. Fire it up.

On a uh S&P? Salt and pepper. Okay. Um I'm not hip enough.

You're uh So, do you sear a steak or you cook it on a grill? I sear it on the grill. I got like uh the cast iron uh grates that I can put on my grill. Is it like flat or it has the No, it's got the grooves in it.

Oh, it does? Yeah, and it's cast iron, so it's like It's not cast iron. What am I saying? It's a I don't know what it is.

Maybe like some sort of cast aluminum top deal. Anyway, so it's like if your grill's at 500°, this grate is like at like 800. So, you can I put it down there, get the cross marks, like Oh, you like the cross marks. I'm a cross mark man.

But you don't like a full sear. I do like a I like a full sear. That's my only push back on the on the grooves. I'll eat There ain't a whole lot of steak I won't eat.

Well, yeah. I mean, I'll go. I love a good full sear. Um I just don't have the crust, dude.

I just don't have I mean, I could get I guess I could flip that over and sear if I ever wanted to. What do you mean? Like flip my grates over where the where the flat part's on top and the in the groove part's facing down. It's like They're like this deep.

So, there is a flat part on the other side. Well, yeah. It's like grooves, like they're like this deep. So, it's like the bottom of it's flat, and then the grooves come up, you know, so you just put it over the fire.

Get it hot. It's like It's pretty much like a branding iron. Yeah. But this is a wood fire?

No, I just use my Pit Boss. Is that pellets? Yeah. Okay.

I used to be a uh charcoal. I still like to do them on charcoal. Like charcoal's the best steak. E Oh, for sure.

It's just not practical to come home every day Well, and it's just horrible for you. Yeah. I just don't have the time to come home and light a bag of charcoal and wait an hour for everything to come up. I just can't I can't get Granted, I have like a pretty dumpy place now that we live in.

Uh so, it's like I don't have a place outside to uh cook over like an open flame or anything. Uh we're moving next week actually though. That's like my favorite thing though is uh is having my like place to be able to grill. And it gets too smoky in the house cuz I'm big on like pan searing a steak.

Mhm. You know, or like in a cast iron. Yeah. I just had a chef on here.

Actually, this dude Tim Love. He like owns the freaking Fort Worth Stockyards. Like all the restaurants. You're going to Lonesome Dove in the Stockyards?

Uh I think I went in there. Dude, he owns like a bunch of restaurants in Fort Worth. been in there. Yeah.

It's got It's Oh, yeah. He owns Tannahill's. Oh, nice. Yeah.

We'll say that's where Same series? His son's name is Tannahill, I think. I think it but whatever. But and then he owns like White Elephant and all that.

Um But anyways, I was asking him about like searing steaks and stuff cuz I just can't freaking get it like Yeah. I just can't get it quite right. I can't get it hot enough. And then so doing it inside You look at some of those kitchens at those fancy restaurants and there's smoke everywhere.

Yeah, they're just And like I can't do that in my house. Right. So, I just can't ever get it freaking hot enough. That's why I bought that great.

Okay. Cuz it gets like I can I can turn my Pitboss on to like 550. And then that great gets like 800. Oh, yeah.

And you can just Dude, have you seen people though that cook steaks and they'll just like it'll just be like this gray meat. No crust. Oh, yeah. I can't handle that.

I What? I went over to my parents' the other day, and my mom had these badass filets. And she was talking about cooking them in the oven. Yeah, my mom did that growing up.

That's not That ain't me. She cooked the red meat in the oven. Yeah, she like she would be like, "Okay, steak night." And she just put like six steaks on a pan, pull them out.

That's crazy. It's not good. No, sir. Not good.

Just a gray watery her defense, she's cooking for everybody. And we're in the same boat. Like we didn't, you know, she can't cook six steaks in a pan. Well, yeah, we sound pretentious, where it's like, "Well, you're eating steak, you spoiled little brat."

It's like, "Well, okay, hold on, though." That Cuz if we're going to spend the money on this thing, let's do it right. Yeah, she knew like me and my sister were our favorite steaks, so she'd be like, "We got to make it somehow." So she fired it up.

Yeah. Dude, I cook everything. I love smoking brisket, ribs. Yeah.

I love smoke stuff. Every day I'm home, I'm cooking. Do you smoke on that pellet thing? Is that what you do it on, too?

I have a I have a stick burner in the backyard, too. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get one.

You got a pizza oven? You do? Yeah. You make your own dough?

I do. No way. Yeah. I just had a Dude, all I make like lasagna, and I make like homemade noodles, roll them out.

Dude, freak What's up, bro? That's a 21st century male right there. That's a millennial male. Yeah.

We had to We had to cook, and I mean, because most of the girls will not. They refuse to. My wife's a cook. Well, I wasn't attacking her directly.

I kind of was when I said she's a cook. They were out You want to hear You want to hear my other theory? I got a lot of theories. Yeah, let's hear it.

Uh Hot take. Um So it's like the boomer parents came from like the greatest generation. So like the greatest generation was like very traditional marriages where it's like the wife stayed at home, homemaker, took care of the kids, cooked, cleaned, all of that, which is all dope stuff, very hard work. Uh guy made a living, whatever, brought home the bacon.

Uh and then there was the generation of the baby boomers who witnessed that. But then life got so expensive. And you had to have a two-income household. Right.

Right? So, both of them went to work, the wife and the husband. Yeah. But they were still like the guys didn't know anything, they only watched their dad operate, right?

So, they took some of those tendencies where it's like, well, you know, I don't do dishes or clean or do any of that stuff, and she's got to take care of the kids. But the problem is all of it got dumped on the boomer mom. So, she ended up making money, and she'd come home, clean the house, take care of the kids, cook food. The millennials, who were the kids of I'm obviously over I'm This is a very generic Yeah.

Going down the tube. So, then the kids of those boomers watched that, the girls watched that, and they said screw that, I ain't doing that. I'll never cook and clean, I'll never do any of that type of stuff. So, then it went to like the polar opposite.

So, now my theory is the millennial boys basically turned into their boomer moms. Yeah. the millennial girls turned into their boomer dads. Yeah, flipped.

It flipped. Yeah. Cuz the girls say like I mean, if you even insinuate like cook My wife's not like this, but I've observed it enough. It's like if you even insinuate like would you cook or clean?

Well, you think that's all I'm good for? It's like, no. Like that's not what I said at all. So, then now a lot of the dudes, like a lot of like all my buddies, they all cook, they clean, they take care of kids, but they also make a living.

And a lot of the girls don't do any of that. That's the hot take. Yeah. My wife does good.

She makes uh That'll bring some heat. She does uh eyelashes and stuff. Like uh puts them on. Yeah, yeah.

For people. Yeah. Yeah, it's not Yeah. She's like a She's the breadwinner.

She does it. She does good. Yeah, mine does, too. Yeah.

Well, and I think I think I think it was something in the middle cuz like watching the boomer dad that like you know, he just watched the game and drank beer on the weekend. Right. It's like, nah, dude. Freaking Yeah.

Cuz it's not It's not It's not fair like your wife's still having to go to work to earn an income cuz you're not providing enough. She's busting her ass. you don't get the best of both worlds there. So, actually I mean I get it where the girls the daughters saw that and said, "Screw that.

I ain't I ain't putting up with that garbage." Yeah. And then now we get the you know. Which like I said, I love to cook some Me and Me and my wife work out perfect because she likes to clean.

Well, I don't know if she likes to clean. She cleans. Uh She keep She likes everything tidy all the time, so she stays after it. I do the cooking, she does the cleaning.

We don't we don't really do any kind of trade-off there. Yeah, it's like a team effort. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And she does cook good. Yeah. I think it's the way it should be, man.

Stay after it. The men make the meat outside. Yeah. Yeah.

They grill the meat outside. So, what do you What's like the most What's your number one goal right now? What are you focusing on? Man, trying to get this full out.

We haven't had a full-length album out ever. So, trying to get a full-length album out that we're proud of is definitely my number one goal. Being able to go try to I mean I We don't know what it even feels like to have a you know, like a full-length album but I imagine it's a just having those songs that are in the set and stuff like that where we can uh be able to not have to I think we play like one cover in our 90 right now. One of our big goals is like don't play any covers.

Okay. You know like in a 90. Um I'm like one or two songs away from it which we can do it now but it's just [expletive] we don't want to play of ours you know. Having 90 minutes worth of songs we're proud of and being able to go put on a show and uh um having some ideas and stuff behind a full length album I think could be pretty cool.

Yeah. That's crazy that you I mean already you're only playing one cover. Yeah. It's not crazy.

That's cool. How did how did you like arrive on forcing your that's hard to do. On forcing yourself to like really not play any covers. Cuz even now you're only playing one which is Well I don't know it's just it just turned into the thing where it was like man we just really want to show up like I'm like man we're recording these songs like we're putting them out like I don't really think it's in our best interest to go play somebody else's song like at least if we're going to go let's try to go try to play our own music and if we lose them we lose them you know.

Um but I think that people will you know it takes a little bit more setting up and stuff you know it takes a little bit more like hey this is a song I wrote about this you know what I mean it's a little more talking than just being able to you know just fire back-to-back and stuff like that but I think we've kind of worked our way into it to where it's like you know kind of give you a little bit little bit of it. We played Montana uh like 2 weeks ago and that was our first time up there. And I feel like they kind of missed you know it was like ah we should have played some covers that probably. Interesting.

But uh at same time it was like they came to a show and then and the people that were you know there was probably five people there that knew who we were. And those hot people came up and like man, thank you so much for playing all your tunes, you know, it's like cuz that's why they were there. Right. That's interesting cuz if you didn't play all yours, you could have lost them.

Right. And those are the five like that you build on. Yeah. That we'd rather have though.

I don't I didn't do that early on. I was like I played a lot of my stuff but I would still just get like cuz you know, like you can feel like you're losing a crowd which sucks. You can feel like that's how that Montana deal was and I you know, like we got our set kind of packed to where it's like the end of the set is the songs that have came out recently like everybody heard. And we try to start putting some stuff in there earlier.

Um and by everybody, it's not that many people. I'm just saying like if you've heard of our band, like that may be the song you heard. Um and it's like there's a lot of people who just have to sit through the whole set for 90 minutes and they're like we just want to hear this one song like that we heard. You know, and it's like we walk off and then come back and do it.

You know, it's like we make them just wait like the very last second for it. Um just trying to keep people but even during that it's like halfway through the set I feel bad, you know, I'm like maybe I should play you guys something you've heard before, you know, I'm like I don't know. But that's an interesting type of person that will know the one song buy the ticket, like make the effort to go Right. stand there and just stare at you and have a terrible time.

I mean I don't think they I think they have a terrible time but just No, I mean I'm being the It's just how I look at it like looking out, you know, I'm like man, I just wish you like Yeah, but a little bit of the blank stare. Yeah, absolutely. I mean It's like I just wish I had more songs you knew so I could help you out here but I can't. But it is interesting to make go through all that effort and be so into that one song and then be kind of so uninterested and I mean you're showing up, you know it's going to be like a full show.

Right. You're not going to only play that song like 30 times. Yeah. And they start yelling at song two.

Yeah. That's the best. You show up and it's song two they're yelling like your biggest song and it's like we're going to play it. Yeah.

Like we can't leave here without playing the song. What's the good response to that? Do you ever like I don't ever respond. I'm just like, "Oh my gosh."

Sometimes I'll make fun of them and stuff, but or the phone comes out with the song on it. Yeah, that's my favorite. Well, hey. At least the song that they're holding up on the phone is yours.

Absolutely. Right? Yeah, no. It's uh It's not like feathered Indians or something.

Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. I mean, our with you know that song with or without me that we put out it's like people come out of the woodworks like as far as like not saying like uh gauge-wise, but I'm saying like from where we were to now with that song is like there'll be people show up everywhere. Just wanting to hear that song.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a wild thing, man. It's a wild industry.

Y'all are doing it right, though. We're trying. I think for what it's worth, I mean. I dig it.

I'm a fan of it. you. Yeah. I'm definitely a fan of it.

So, are y'all playing a bunch coming up this fall or going into the new year? Well, we're fixing to uh We got this one Sunday or Saturday, sorry. And then Sunday we start our uh weeks off for deer season, so we'll be off like four weeks. We'll be home hunting and kind of rebuilding and stuff like that and getting ready for our kind of our fall stuff.

Fall we got a lot of stuff with the with Treaty. Um We got booked at the Paycom Center, the big arena there in Oklahoma City, so that's a huge deal for us cuz it's like where we're at. It's like the arena and everybody's [expletive] yeah. Yeah.

So. We got that coming up and I guess we'll just kind of see where it goes from there. Uh hopefully next year we get the we get this album out and get to tour it, so. You don't have a date for the album.

No, we don't we haven't even got it recorded. I've been having so much trouble writing and just trying to figure out like you know, like I said earlier, I just I couldn't figure out really a direction I wanted to go or didn't want to go or I'm scared if I, you know, lean too far this way it'll be weird or that way and just trying to figure out like trying to get back like I said earlier, my mindset of like trying to write songs that I resonate with and fans like instead of just trying to do one of the other. Mhm. Yeah, but if you just write something that you like, they probably will.

Right. I'm having trouble I'm having trouble uh Writing something that you like. I'm just having trouble like Yeah. I get it, dude.

Trust me. Yeah, I'm not a I'm not a huge fan of myself to be honest. trouble writing something that I like and also like just like when I write it, I'm having trouble believing like anybody else would. You know.

Uh so, if I write something believe it? I mean, sometimes. Okay. But I'm also like I got to kind of try to lean into uh like something that I like and also feels relevant, you know?

Like I don't want to just write something that's like, "Oh, well, this is just totally left field for everything you got going on." Yeah. So, kind of struggling with that, but I think it'll come around. I've been down at Taylor's this week and we wrote down there and got a got a tune I thought was pretty cool, so.

Sick. Just chipping away at it. Yeah, well, that's pretty honest for you to say. You know.

Most people would not want to acknowledge that they're struggling with it. Yeah. Yeah, it don't bother me none. Well, and it's one thing to just be able to write something that like it's having both of those where you feel like it's relevant, but then also really resonates with you yourself personally.

You know, it's not like you're in a spot that obviously you could write something that you know might do well, right? But then if you got to play that every single night and if it's not authentic to yourself that's where it getting both of those things, gosh dude. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm what I'm having trouble with just writing like stuff that's stuff that hits both points.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I'll get it. It just you know, take me some time and stuff like that figuring out what I Yeah, what I want to do.

Yeah, for sure dude. Yeah, you got it. You got the freaking goods. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm a fan dude. Thanks for doing this. Absolutely, man.

Thank you. Yeah, hell yeah. Drink some beer. We got to go pee now.

I got to piss bad. Yeah, let's do it. Not together. All right, see you.

me, dude. Yeah, man. For sure.