Ryan Fox

Full episode transcript, auto-generated from the audio and lightly formatted (verbatim, not edited).

Are we Are we moving and grooving? Oh, yeah. We just run it. Sick.

Okay, cool. Also, you have to I'm always curious how people do it. Um You have to open it and close it. However, you want to do it.

Interesting. Yeah, what do you think? a lot about your personality. really?

But, I always like to see how people would do it where it's like cuz some people open it and they just let it drop. Oh. Some people open it, they shut it lightly. Mhm.

Some people open it and they slam it shut. Yeah. Aggressive. Right?

But, apparently it is like you're supposed to actually slap it and slam it so you can really hear it and so the audio syncs up or whatever. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, I didn't know there was like an official way of doing it.

Yeah, you have to do the whole like whenever we whenever we do stuff, I hit the old uh 1 2 3 1 2 3 so you can give whoever's editing it when they like put sound onto it. Yeah. Um then they can match up the 1 2 3 with like your um fingers with your fingers. Or you can hit them with a clap and you can go 1 2 3 1 2 3.

I didn't even know you're supposed to do it multiple times. it's a I just do it three times cuz it helps like when you have cuz I have to I have to edit a lot of our audio and when you have like spikes in the audio and you can see like frequency you can see it. It's way easier to line it up than like having to set it and then like look at their mouths and then like cuz we had we had to transition so we had to transition to that um we had to transition to running on a click for social media um because we didn't have the money basically to get a house mix cuz we didn't have our own house engineer. And so it was like we'd have to run it through a board and if we ran it through a board, then we'd have to send it off and we'd have to get it mixed and then we'd have to mix the whole show.

Then we'd have to cut it down and by the time we did all that like a week and a half would pass and then we'd be like, well, we're onto the next thing. This is kind of pointless. And so we kind of looked at the guys and um and I was like, "What if What if we hopped on a click?" Um uh and as you know, I was like as long as I'm on it, y'all don't have to be Yeah, well, you're the drummer.

It's the biggest for you. So, how was that process? It Dude, so we didn't we didn't even get like we didn't even get like Ableton or any of those tracks or anything like cuz we're big anti-track people. it.

Yeah. So, we got a drum machine, like one of those old Yeah. And I just went in and I programmed, I think, a thousand bars uh that were they were in the time signature of 1 1. Okay.

Uh which is just one note over and over and over again. Uh and I just programmed the one note to be like a side stick sound. And then I just did that over a thousand bars, so it was just infinitely long. And then I would just change the tempo.

And then I just copy and pasted it. And so then I just like for like 19 songs, I'd be like, "Okay, this song's at 140." And then I'd set it, and then I'd be like, copy, paste. And then I'd be like, "Okay, this song's at" and that's what our click It's not My guy always just used a Roland, and he would just trigger it with his Roland.

No, no, that's I mean, I don't know why it needs to be really that much more complicated than that. Yeah, I mean, dude, we're doing some weird songs now where it's like they're in like Bird So, Birds in the Bees was is super hard cuz it's in two time signatures. Um cuz like our producer, shout out Ryan Hewitt, he likes to do a thing where it's like one section, like the slow section, is in like 113. And then the faster section is like 114 and a half or something like that.

Or like tempo map. tempo map, and so like Birds in the Bees has been hard. Um but now it doesn't really matter cuz we Shout out to everybody for listening to our music. We now have enough money we can hire a sound guy, and so he comes out and um he we get the way he does it is we get his exact left and right as he's mixed it in the venue for that day.

So, then when it just comes on to my phone, don't have to mix it and it sounds and it comes with all the effects that he puts on it and everything. So, it sounds beautiful. Um and we've gotten more of those and now all we have to do is you just sync it up to the live audio basically and you just play it over that like the camera audio and it's been Man, that's slick. Yeah.

Tempo mapping's huge, dude. People get stuck in this thing of like a grid when you're recording a song where it's like, "What if the verse just needs to feel faster?" And if there is a drop, "What if the chorus goes half time?" Cuz like just playing the song on my own, I always struggle with that.

Like on my new record, we did a lot of that where it was like I think there was one song we didn't do to actual click and we just played it live, but other than that it was like, "Man, I just really feel like this chorus is just too fast." Yeah. Verse felt great. Yeah, verse felt Yeah.

It's like, "Well, why? They don't have to be the same the same tempo." No. Yeah, we just did a um we just did a song called Flavorless.

It's not coming out for a minute. Um we did the old Luke Combs thing. I don't know if you saw this, but he made a separate Hi, by the way, also welcome to the uh part of the podcast where I just talk about marketing strategies cuz that's what I really love about music. I tell people all the time that I am uh I'm a marketer who just happened to be good at drums.

That is that is solely ge- generous of I think that's like very humble of you. I appreciate that. Um But so Luke Combs did something super cool. He made a separate Instagram account that he called crowdsourcing where he uploaded 16 demos and he just put the he put the Instagram account on his store and he said, "Hey, there's 16 full songs on this Instagram account called crowdsourcing.

Y'all go through it and listen, like the ones you like, comment on them, and then we're going to go through and see like who like enjoys what." And then he and then he picked from those songs the demos he would put the demos he would record. That was like his whole which I really liked that idea. And so we just recorded four songs and we put them out we put out like a minute of them on Instagram and we were like, we don't know what order we want to release these in.

We're going to release them as singles. Um and one of the top voted ones was a song called Flavorless where it starts out very like Dexter in the Moon Rocks very sad. Um and that's in one time signature then the whole band comes in that's in another time signature. Then there's like Um or it's in a it's in a different BPM not time signature.

I'm sorry. It's in a different BPM then there's a breakdown that is in another time signature. I think it's in like 6/8 instead of 4/4 or something. It's or it's like in 5/4.

I don't know. It's something weird. Um and then and that's sped up and then we come out of it and slow it back down. And it was a whole trying to do it in the studio was a brain [expletive] but Ultra creative though.

Yeah, I mean and it sounds awesome cuz like it was exactly what you're saying was like, okay, the breakdown is the right speed but the chorus coming out of it is too fast because the breakdown's now too fast. So we have to make the chorus coming out of it slower but if we make the verse before the breakdown fa- as fast as the breakdown then the verse is too rushed. Yeah. And so we like kind of learned all of that and put that kind of to the test on some of the newer songs that we did.

I think it's interesting that like the marketing part of this stuff always ends up in the music world is like a dirty word. People try to act like it's not a creative endeavor which I find to be really bizarre. Like to think that like Nirvana's record wasn't more popular because they had like the naked baby on the front of it. Yeah, and like I hate always thought that the whole creative part of it you know, even if people used to just only make the music, there was a tremendous amount of creatives that were involved in the whole process of getting it out and connecting with people.

From artwork to video and all of that. Now, it's just it feels like to have a successful career, you the artist has to be more willing to do all of those little buckets. And I find it to be like an incredible like the most successful ones are like typically the most creative people in my opinion. They can make dope music and very good music, but then they can also be very intentional about the artwork and the branding and then the videos.

And I just think it's like finally the culmination of all of it comes together. And who whoever can put all of those things together and care about all that is going to have like pretty meaningful music careers. Yeah. I mean, cuz I hate the I think you're so right cuz like if you look at I'm a huge fan of Chappell Roan.

I think she's fantastic. I think like if you look at Noah Kahan, if you look at Mt. Joy, if you look at there all these people that took like really big jumps in creative. And they're like, I want to I want to put something out.

I want something to mean something, right? And I think like I hate the whole comparison of someone's like, "Oh, could you imagine Thom Yorke, lead singer Radiohead, for anybody who doesn't know who that is. Um like could you imagine Thom Yorke having to hop on TikTok?" I'm like, "Well, he didn't have to because radio existed and MTV existed and you know, and they're like, "Could you imagine Kurt Cobain getting up here and like doing a little lip sync?"

And I'm like, "But he did have to do that and he did it for MTV, but he did it in his way that it became iconic." Like he something that I think Yeah, it's crazy to think that bands at that time weren't [expletive] on him because he just got You don't think there was other bands that were like, "Oh, must be nice to be on MTV." I think they took Dave No, it was um he went up there and he played guitar like this. Like with he didn't use his fingers for like one I think they made Dave Grohl play without sticks.

Like it was the show I think their bassist not like they're knocked uh he knocked himself out, but it's like they were being creative with the digital platform. They're just they couldn't do it on their phones. you know there was probably other artists at that time that were like, "Oh man, I'm not into the MTV thing. That's [expletive] I'm just about the true art."

It's like, "Okay." Just in the same way now somebody's like, "Oh man, I don't do the TikTok thing." It's like, "Well, whatever." I don't It's just it's for because it's frustrating because I think something for us and being from Texas too it's like Kurt Cobain, Thom Yorke, um Tom Morello, um they were people that were so good at being counterculture they became the culture.

And so they were the people where it's like, "Oh, you know, Kurt Cobain wouldn't be on TikTok." It's like he wouldn't, but he would be able to counterculture that so well and maybe he would be able to get on and make fun of it or he'd be able to do what he did when um they fake the lip syncing or anything like that. And that in itself would create a different culture. And I think that's what people miss is you eventually you go counterculture until you eventually become the culture.

And I think that's especially if what we're trying to do with our music and everything like that and trying to bring back this like grunge Texas rock and roll kind of thing is it's not mainstream yet, but with everything that's coming out of Texas with the way we're pushing with people being like, "Oh, you guys aren't cowboy or you guys aren't this." And it's like, "Okay, keep saying that. We're going to keep making music and eventually we're going to do this so well that we're going to become the culture." And that's what's going to happen and people are going to resonate with this music.

And that's something that's very important to me uh when we think about branding, we think about stuff like that cuz It's dude, it's the meme of the girls looking back like they're at the house party and they're looking back and they're like when you know and they have the little stuffy face and it's like when you play their favorite song before it's their favorite song. Yes. You like really you're going to tell me that like all the sorority girls that like are obsessed with Tyler Childers now you're going to tell me when that dude first started and he showed up looking the way he does if that he came and played at their sorority house Like oh my god. you think they would have immediately been like I love this?

No. Not a shot. Well, I think that's Like I have a whole theory where I think right now I think Texas right now in this decade is going to be what Seattle was like let me rephrase this. Texas right now for rock and roll and like the southern rock is going to be what Seattle was for grunge in the 90s.

Hot take, bro. think I vehemently like between us, between Treaty Oak, between Kolby Barnhill, between Sterling Elza, between everybody that's coming up and making this like it's southern, there's some twang in there, but you're like this isn't country music. I think that is going to be the next step. Because if you think music is cyclical, right?

And so the 90s country was really big and then you kind of had the post 9/11 country music and then it became stadium country and everybody's like it became bro country and it was like this sucks. We don't like this, right? But it was making money. Some people did.

Some people did. Some people did. And it was and it was quintessentially like southeastern. Yes.

And but it was making money. And so the labels went we need to do this cuz it's making money. And then they made stadium country and everyone's like I'm out. I'm out.

But they didn't know they were out until some new stuff was there to replace it. Yes. And so everyone was like this kind of sucks and then rock and roll came and you got Kings of Leon, you got The Black Keys, you got Arctic Monkeys, you got those in the early 2000s. You got Cage the Elephant.

And then everybody went, "Rock and roll's making money." Well, I would even put some of the folky sensibilities in there with Mumford & Sons and The Lumineers and stuff like that. Absolutely. Which really those The Black Keys and Mumford & Sons have more similarities than like Yes.

Yes, 100%. Jason Aldean is on a completely different planet. Those two things compared to him have so much similarities. Yes.

You know? And I think so then they went, "Okay, well rock and roll's making money. We need to go make stadium rock." And then you got the very like Is this rock and roll?

Why are there 808s in this? This feels good. be? I don't want to call anybody out cuz that's not like what I Oh, well, we're not talking about whether or not somebody should like it or not.

It's like Like what would that's one that I don't know what that would be. Man, so it's like um God, I have so many racing through my brain cuz I'm saying this in a negative connotation and I don't want to like um It's the Well, you had no problem talking about bro country in a negative connotation. Yeah, that's true. But I didn't name names.

But I didn't name names. That's all Oh, I did. Yeah, well, I didn't. Florida Georgia Line, Luke Bryan, Jason Aldean.

Dude, I have a I always make the joke in my live show where I'm like, "If you guys like what you hear, my name is Jared Morris. If you don't like what you hear, my name is Florida Georgia Line." Or I just do like any of those names. Well, I It's more of like the That's not a personal thing.

Yeah. great dudes. Like whatever. I just don't like that type of music.

Yeah, that No, that's real. That's real. It's not like life or death here. We're talking about music.

know. Just so many like I try to make sure that we are the most unproblematic band of all But I But I don't know what 808 stadium rock thing So, it's like the It's you took away the very It's like Katy Perry. Okay. Like you remember Dark Horse by Katy Perry?

where it's like touch me to the whatever that [expletive] song. Um trying to trick me into singing it? No. Uh It almost worked.

I just nail it. I know every word. like yeah. But it's kind of like that or I just don't know how to like describe it.

But it's the very we have like it's heavily auto-tuned vocals. We're kind of singing just about nothing really and there's not like the guitar looks uninteresting. It's very formulaic. It's like verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, like all of that kind of like be stuff coming out of the country for a while.

is rock. This is just rock. And so I think that happened and everyone was like music kind of sucks. And then I think Zach Bryan happened.

And I think people like oh this feels original, this feels like a breath of fresh air. And he was the he was the first one through the gate proverbially like cuz he was the first one that really got Excuse me. He was the first one that really got social media kind of figured out with YouTube. Well, also stylistically how you produce a record.

He just went the opposite direction where everything was sounding super slick and super synthetic. Cuz it was the it was that stadium like oh we can make money off of this, right? Like that's kind of where it came back where the industry was Make everything sound huge and gigantic or less. Yes.

And we need and that's so he did that. Zach Bryan comes back. And then I think that paves the way for people to be like I really like Zach Bryan. I want to look more for this.

And they find Ryan Bingham. They find Colter Wall. They find Tyler Childers. They find Sierra Ferrell.

Um and then country becomes the biggest genre in the world. Last year I think it um, grew 20%. Um and the all country festivals were the top earning festivals in the world last year. And now the industry is going, we need to make money off of this.

And I don't think this is wrong by the artists that are doing this, but then you see like Beyoncé put out a country album. I don't necessarily think that like I think that's well within her right. I think there are some wonderful songs on there. I think Post put out a country album.

Chapel Roan did a country song. Sabrina Carpenter did a country song. You've got So now everybody's being like, this is where it is and I think we're heading back to stadium country. And I think hopefully what I'm hoping is going to come out of that is people are going to be angry.

They're going to be like, I don't want to listen to this polished crap anymore. And then that's where we come in and we go, "Hey, here's something new. Here is this Texas rock and roll grunge style thing that feels new. And I think Treaty Oak's going to be the first one out the gate, but I think people are already like starting to look for more of that.

And they're going, "Hey, we want this rock and roll thing." that Co definitely was a spearheaded that? Cross Canadian Ragweed was the spearhead. Yeah, Cross Canadian Ragweed was But I think, um, Co absolutely about somebody that loved grunge.

Cody Canada, come on. It And I think and I think Co did it and, um, and I think I think Co did it, but he, especially with the way High Road kind of popped off and became that like country number one, I think that might have cemented them a little there. I don't want to speak on his like, um, like what he thinks his genre is, but I think he's definitely in that like I think if Like what I'm hoping is if like if Co is in the analogy of evolution, if Co is like the monkey and Treaty Oak is the missing link, I hope we are the next Like I hope we're the next evolution of that, where it's like, you know, Co like Cross Canadian Ragweed happened, Co came along, he was super instrumental in that like Texas rock and roll thing. Treaty Oak took it another level.

I'm hoping then, you know, the people that are in our scene, we take it another level and it's like, "Hey, this is something new." and it turns into what, you know, what it turns into what Seattle was in the '90s for grunge. And that's what Texas becomes. That's kind of my That's an exciting thought.

That's a very exciting thought. I haven't heard anybody actually explain it as well as you did. Yeah. And I think it's real and I think there's some great bands coming out of North Carolina, too.

Like I think that I think like Appalachian and Texas rock and roll are about to just take over the world cuz it's the it is this very like these are southern country lyrics, these feel very folksy and they feel like this, but it's with a heavy guitar and it's angry and it's, you know, it's country rage against the machine. And that's the that's the vibe. Yeah, it's a it's a it's something that hadn't been done. Yeah.

And we're not doing it intentionally, either, I think. Cuz so many people are like, "Why are you, you know, when did you make the decision to go" and it's like, we didn't. Like, you know, our bass player worked on a rig. Um our guitar player [expletive] laid concrete.

Our lead singer flipped burgers. They all grew up in a town of 700 people. I went to school out west. I went to Abilene.

Like and we just all love like, you know, the two things to do in Abilene are you either go to church or you go to the honky-tonk. And like that's it. And so, you know, I was spending all my nights there and I was listening to Randy Rogers and I was listening to George Strait and I was listening to Turnpike. And you fall in love with that and you get so obsessed with that culture, but then you're like, "Oh, Allison Chains is one of the best bands in the entire world."

And you just listen to both and it's so Do you ever fluid? Feel it's a little weird when people ask for influences? When you grow up in Texas and you're so heavily influenced by like Texas country or red dirt country and it's such a part of your upbringing and the culture that it's all at times I forget that like I forget to talk about it. Because it's it seems so obvious to me.

Like if somebody says like what's your influences? I'm usually looking for like some obscure like I would be like oh man Allison chain or and where people are like really? I mean what about like Randy and I'm like oh yeah. It's in my DNA.

It's almost like I forget that like I have to even say that. I feel like it's like unspoken. It's almost like Well you don't like Robert Earl Keen? I'm like yes.

Dude it's almost like you view it the same way you view it as like Taylor Swift where it's like where people are like oh I really love like pop stars. Like I love like you know, I love Suki Waterhouse and I love these people like you don't like Taylor Swift and it's Yeah it's [expletive] Taylor Swift. We're not we're Yeah what do you mean? And oh my gosh cuz I so I have a we have a Tik Tok series that we'll do where it's um uh it's called uh songs I thought went triple platinum but actually no one knows what they are and I'm just from Texas.

Hold on. Say that say that say that again. Say what you just said. Songs that I thought went triple platinum but nobody actually knows what they are and I'm just from Texas.

So this would be Corpus Christi Bay. This would be Snake Farm by uh Ray Wylie Hubbard. This would be in your arms instead uh by Randy Rogers Band. It would be like uh Diamonds and Gasoline breakdown or something.

Oklahoma breakdown is a Yeah it'd be like Oklahoma breakdown. It would be like I think heartache medication. No. John Prine's like that.

Never mind. He's got I think that song went really And also damn shame that none of these are platinum songs cuz they should be cuz they're phenomenal. But when you're somewhere else in the country and like somebody knows it, it's like holy cow. Or you're talking to people and they're like and they're like, oh like what's that like I have a seven and seven tattoo.

Um and I'm like, oh yeah, this is for Turnpike and they're like they look at me like I just shot their kid and I'm like Turnpike Troubadours, the greatest country band of all time. What do you mean? They're the best ever. I went to college down in South Florida for a little bit and that's where I first started like playing out at bars and whatnot and there was one dude one night still remember I might not remember his face and he was like play some CCR and then some other lady was like, yeah, play some Credence.

And he was like he was like, no, you know, screw that, bro. He's like, play like Boys from Oklahoma or something. And I was like, oh my gosh and it was all the way down in South Florida and then we ended up like having drinks all night, but he was the only so I played it and he was the only one in that place that knew what it was. And every and everybody in there was like, this is great.

What is this? So we like showed them all Cross Canadian Ragweed. Do you do you [expletive] with Hayes Carll? Yeah, man.

Dude. Yeah. Bad liver and a broken heart. Might be Bad liver and a broken heart.

I think one of the greatest lyrics of all time is um it's the down verse after the guitar solo in that song and he goes um I think it's I'll get old before I'm through. No, it's I'll get old before I'm through with this. Who's the president? What year is it?

And I think that's one of my favorite lines. Uh it's uh I just I love that song. too cuz like if somebody listened to y'all's music or uh I mean even a lot of my music, you know, they would sometimes have a hard time hearing those influences and they'd be like but I guess that's what's funny about making something that's unique. It's like unless you sound exactly like your influences then it's like they're not influences, which is weird to me.

They can be influences, but it's supposed to be sort of at a subconscious level. I'm not interested in just copying them. Yeah. Right?

Like I don't want somebody Yeah, I don't want somebody to tell me like, "You sound exactly like Randy Rogers." Yeah, cuz Why would I want that? Cuz then you're just like To me it's like ripping them off, too. We have that like when we write, we have those discussions very heavily where it's like, "Well, we could do this."

And then we're like, "Fuck, like Co did that." Like, you know, sounds like, "Ah, [expletive] Like, oh, it's super cool. Like, I wish we could, but it's like Ah, like and not that we don't like they're phenomenal [expletive] artists. It's just like we don't want to like we don't want to be the, you know, we don't want to be the band that it's like, "Well, they're only popular because they ripped off Treaty Oak Revival or they ripped off Co."

And it's like we want to be held in the same like name as them. Way harder to do though. Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

And but it but I don't know if people think about it enough. Uh that's why I like talking about it. Because like I don't know if people it's something has changed and I don't know where it changed. When I first started playing music, people used to say like, "Oh, you sound just like so-and-so."

But they would say it like it was a negative thing. It was kind of a dig. Yeah. And something changed recently where now people say it like it's a compliment.

And that's weird to me. I don't know where that came from. We're in like a phase of copycats and like they're almost like tribute acts that sound exactly like something else, but then they write their own original material, but it's really not original. They're just they sound exactly like something else.

I think it's this because of social media and because like 30 seconds of a song lives online and people like, "I want this feeling over and over and over again." There's a lot of people that are like, "I want I want more of that. Like, I want more songs like that. I want to find that."

Okay. And so we find ourselves more and more people are like, "Wow, like we never get the same answer." But it's always like, "You guys really remind me of Pearl Jam." And I'm like, "What the fuck?"

Like, "Pearl Jam?" Yeah, how? How? I'm like, "That's a huge compliment.

Thank you. it's presented to them and how it makes them feel Yes. makes them reminds them of Pearl Jam. Yes.

But, that shouldn't be confused with and they can say whatever they want. Like, I don't really whatever. But, it doesn't mean you sound like Well, and I think that's something really important, too, cuz everyone always gets at us cuz they're like, "You're not a country band." And I'm like, we never stop I'm not trying Hey, hey, we said sad cowboy music.

We never said sad country music. That was intentional. And if you hear if you listen to what most cowboys listen to, they're not getting on a bronc going, "Amarillo by morning." It's like, dude, I know more I know more welders and blue-collar workers that are turning on Bleed the Freak by Alice in Chains or listening to Lithium or going and like listening to Deftones.

And it's like, you know, they're listening to um Change by Deftones and then the next song is Sleeping on the Blacktop by Colter. And like, that's the it's the same reason Nickelback, I believe, has headlined three country festivals this year. I believe Creed was at Stagecoach. Bush just got announced for 2026 Stagecoach.

Was Bush uh Glycerine? Glycerine. Okay. Yeah.

And like, Bush and I think um I think like Candlebox. Dude, we should uh every song we bring up, we should Oh, we could do like a drinking game. Where it's like, if you bring up a you say a song title and right after if you don't sing part of it, You got to drink. You got to drink.

Glycerine. Too bad I'm not the singer for Dexter and the Moon Rocks. I'm so sorry. You have Okay, I have to sing it.

Um you have to play the drunk part. You have to sing the drunk part. Glycerine would be a tough one cuz the hook no drums. That song hey, I want every that listen, I need to look into the camera.

Glycerine by Bush pisses me the [expletive] off. I have been on I've gone on a rant about this. It great song. I [expletive] hate that song because all it is all it is it is a 3-minute blue ball tease of just like it's a grunge song where you're like, I can't wait for the big swell that the drums kick into this song and then the whole time Bush is just like, [expletive] you.

Yeah, no doubt. It's so annoying. What's the other huge Bush song? Or I'm probably not thinking of the right Is it Bush?

Hold on. I know Bush is Glycerine, but isn't there another Canned Heat Blues and then he comes out in Eastbound and Down and he's like, don't burn him yet. I'd like to contribute to the speeches. Oh, it's not Glycerine.

Or it's not uh Bush. What the Oh, I'm thinking of uh Shimmer. Uh um It just got big. It did.

It did. It just popped off again. I thought about covering it. I thought it'd be a cool cover.

I just I just looked it up, man. I just set that as my It is. It's calling me from that phone. Fuel.

Just in the past thinking I was able. Wait, then we're thinking of two different songs cuz damn it No, Shimmer's the uh the all this will probably get taken down, won't it? If I play this. Oh, tragic.

Thinking I was able. Oh, okay. Fuel. But that kind of does remind me of Bush a little bit.

Anyways. Sorry. It's fine. I digress.

Do you want another drink? No, I got one. Okay. Do you want to light those cigars?

I actually, yeah. I'm going to get a little more Topo here. Okay, I love that. Can do you have a cutter?

I already cut it. I'm like You were you were about to suck on the wrong side. dude. It's a little V cut.

That's embarrassing. It's incredibly embarrassing. Luckily, this isn't on camera. That's a well Luckily, this isn't recording and going to be on the internet.

That's very fancy matches for you, too. Dude, this is so nice. I'm going to make myself another drink. Heck yeah.

Start talking. Keep talking. Yeah, no, I'll keep talking. I'll keep everybody entertained.

So, what's really funny to actually find out is uh that did you know that NASCAR is a direct uh a from prohibition? Cuz basically what happened is prohibition gets it gets enacted, right? And actually uh prohibition is directly responsible for the mafia and for NASCAR. So prohibition happens, right?

And uh people are like, "Hey, we still want to get drunk. We don't have union rights. Everything sucks." And so they start sneaking into speakeasies.

And so Al Capone and all these mobsters, Italian mob, Irish mafia, all that stuff, they're making money off of selling alcohol illegally, right? And so they're having to brew this moonshine. And uh the cops are catching on and they're trying to chase the vehicles. And so they take these old Model T cars and they strip them out to make them lighter.

Essentially making the first um uh like souped-up car. And so like kind of like a street racer. And so they do this so they can put moonshine in them to make them go faster so they can outrun the cops. So they've got all these souped-up cars.

They're running moonshine. They're making buckets of money off of this. Um and then prohibition gets repealed cuz everybody's like, "Hey, the world actually sucks. We need to drink more alcohol."

Um and so they repeal prohibition, but at this point Al Capone, Irish mafia, all that stuff, they already have buckets of money. They start moving into gambling. They start moving into all that stuff. So that establishes them like the prohibition money was basically seed money for them to create the mafia and like the empire that was.

And then they have all these leftover souped-up cars that go really fast. And they're like, "Shit. Let's race them. We kind of want to race these."

And that eventually leads to like um drag racing and then it leads to NASCAR. So prohibition directly responsible for NASCAR and the mob. Did you know that's how horse racing started, too? Oh, I didn't know that.

I made that up, but it did feel it felt right. Did it? It felt right coming out. Hm.

Interesting. Mhm. Where When did you go down that rabbit hole? Um it's actually just like a connection that I made.

Um I was I was originally I was like, "I could be a stand-up comic and that was going to be a part of like a stand-up routine that I had. Um and then I was like I'm not going to be a stand-up comic. What changed that? I wasn't as funny as I thought I was.

You're pretty freaking funny, dude. wasn't as I wasn't I mean I think that your like music career is evidence that you're incredibly witty. And you think about things in a different like in a like in a alternative way. I try to.

I try to. No, there's no doubt about it, dude. The amount of people that look at y'all's social media and laugh at their phone. That's cuz most of that [expletive] is like stuff that makes me laugh.

Where that I think that's the biggest part is so many people are trying to be so forced on TikTok where they're like oh, well, I saw you know, I saw Gavin Adcock do this. So I need to go and I need to do X, Y, and Z. Or it's like, hey, if you find yourself, you know, sending a meme to your friend that's like me when the 6' 10" goth mommy steps on my throat and you're like, this is funny and you send it. That's what Why would you not be able to do that?

Why would you not recreate that? Why would you not Why would you not make the you know, like I think some of my favorite memes are like the hey, if you see me at the honky-tonk getting my ass kicked by, you know, a 5' 10" brunette in cowboy boots, don't help me. I'm exactly where I want to be. Like that's Yeah, that's how that's how I feel about my wife.

Like I hope she starts beating the [expletive] out of me in the middle of the bar. Like that's hot as [expletive] And it's like yeah, like Why would I not make funny little mean like Is it weirder for you to like it or is it weirder for somebody to like watching it? That's a great question. Are you To pivot off of that question, um Oh, what a strong word.

To pivot? Yeah. Wow. Did you just slide in some quick corporate jargon on me?

I'm not letting that slide. ever hit someone with let's circle back? No, that has ran its course. You are a sociopath if you're still saying circle back.

That's my I'm done with you and I'm going to punch you in the face. Oh, in an email? In an email? I was just circling back.

Dude, pivot strong, though. I also stumbled on bifurcate. Oh, dude. Oh, man.

One of my buddies is in finance, and he hit the group text with one of those the other day. Like, it's bifurcating something, and I was like, "Wow." Oh, dude. That one was hot, though.

Like, you know, I mean, you don't hear people throwing that one around very often. I remembered what I was saying. No, thank you. Cuz I was about to be like, we just did the biggest my biggest pet peeve in podcasting is when they bring up a topic, don't ever address it, and then never answer the question.

Um So, you said something about is it uh is it better to like it or better to watch, right? That's essentially Okay, well You have Okay, but we are clear about the context, correct? yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

I'm pivoting to something worth Michael just clip that one spot. Are you familiar with the um are you familiar with the guy on TikTok who does um This might have to get cut out, and I'm so sorry. I don't care if this gets cut out, but there's a guy on TikTok who does the uh the [expletive] chair, which is I don't know if you know what this is, but when you enter a hotel room, there's always that random chair in the corner. Oh, yeah.

And his whole TikTok account don't know why I said it like that. no, that's you. You said it like you knew, dude. But he uh he um he reviews them.

Like, he just that's his whole bit is he goes into hotel rooms, and he'll just be like, "This one was a seven out of 10. Doesn't look super comfortable." Like, that's his whole Take And he's got like hundreds of thousands of followers. one of the funniest It's like here like Free Bird's playing in the background as he just like slowly pans to this Like, he's in a shitty motel, and it just pans to this just like chair in the corner.

to be right before he's going into the solo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like, he's playing like he's playing like you know he's playing like an Alice in Chains song or like Glycerine by Bush could be playing or something like that. Glycerine.

You have to. Yeah, man. Uh yeah, see and he built an entire massive following off of one style and one piece of uh of funny content. Yeah.

It's I mean there's so many like there's a guy out there I hate the word content, but I Oh. video. video. It's just videos.

Why do you hate the word content? It's just video cuz everything is content. It's just so non-descriptive. It annoys me.

It's a video. Right? Well, that's the that's the thing that like we're shifting to. Cuz music the song is content technically.

We're shifting to like this idea that it's not it shouldn't be content, it should be entertainment. There you go. So you're not making you're it is like Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, don't view those as social media platforms. You should view them as entertainment platforms.

You should exactly what you were saying earlier. You should view all of those platforms like MTV. And instead of taking you know, $50,000 and making a 4-minute long super cool MTV music video, you're going to take $5,000 and you're going to make 10 30-second mini MTV music videos. Dude, yeah.

I mean looking at some people that struggle on social media and I've been there too where it's like why aren't my followers seeing my stuff? And it's easy to fall into the temptation of being like oh, I need to say something about the fact that nobody's interacting with my stuff. It's tempting, but think about it in the context of like would you want Does that make you actually more interested in Is that entertaining? Does that make you more interested in what they're doing?

For them to just go like "Wah, nobody's listening to my music." Yeah, man. If you were all If you were watching MTV and that was the music video of them going, "Why? Why is nobody listening to my song?"

That's a weird thing to put on MTV, and it would never make it. So, why are you doing it on Tik Tok? I God, I And like And that's the biggest thing, too, is it's a hard thing to realize, and it took me 9 months to realize this, is cuz So, I little backstory, little backstory, I'll get to this. Um Make it quick, though.

We're only got like, you know, 2 hours left. I know. Um Everybody, if you just want to press the two times button on this podcast right now so you can skip through this, feel free. Um Every time they stop, it's just us singing another song.

They're like, "Gosh, when are we going to get to the right spot?" What are the odds? It's always glycerin. They keep going on terrible tangents.

But, so when we started, man, I started our Tik Tok account December 13th of 2021. I know the exact date. And um since then, I have posted 3,782 videos. So, that's 4 years ago.

Which 4 years ago, which equates to roughly two a day. With no breaks. No days off. Um It took me 9 months to get our first viral video.

And I think a lot of people don't realize that. And like, I'm not the case, by the way, right? You can look at like I am I am the rule, I'm not the exception. Like GG Perez, you can look at someone like her, you can look at Oliver Anthony.

Like those happen. Those are lightning bolt moments. Are you the person listening to this out there probably going to be one of those people? Odds are probably not.

Does it mean your music sucks? No, it just means the fate of the universe has not blessed you. hit the lottery or not? Yeah, it's literally are you going to hit the lottery or not?

And so, it took 9 months to figure out how not to make a video. And in those 9 months, we'd get videos that would, you know, that would be 30,000 views. And then we'd get some that had 300. And like, this doesn't make any sense.

And I kind of resulted to this idea that like, oh, we're shadow banned. They don't like this idea that we're talking about like, you know, which is so [expletive] [expletive] to say, but it's like, they don't like the idea that we're talking about like, being alternative and like in country music. Like, all right, Xi Jinping over in China is not like being like, we need to ban that account cuz they're in a little too weird They're getting a little too fluid with the genres. They're getting a little too This is Xi Jinping.

Xi Jinping This is not country music. Yeah, this is not like Xi Jinping's not like, this sounds nothing like George Strait. You need to Shadow ban. Shadow ban.

And I was having that like victim mentality and I think that's so much easier than just looking myself in the face and being like, hey, our content sucks. Like this the stuff that we are making, it is not entertaining. It is not providing value to someone, right? Because your songs don't have to do that.

Your songs can be art. I think that's really important for people to understand is your song can be a 17 You can be Andre 3000 or I think he made a 47-minute long flute album, right? But you have to sell that album. Because to some people, they do want a 47-minute flute album, right?

But you have to sell it. That's what you have to do. You have to figure out how do I How do I get people to pay attention? And once that flipped in my mind and once I realized, hey, I believe in this so much.

I believe in this to the core of my being that I would rather die before this fails. That I wake up every morning and it's all I think about. It consumes me to the point where like my wife has had to have conversations with me of like, you need to be present when you're home. You cannot be thinking about like, what's the next video going to be look like?

How do I write this song? What does this look like? What does the band's next 9 months look like? Right?

It has to consume you to that point that you love it, that you realize like I have to sell this. I have to be entertaining. I have to I have to pitch this in a way that makes someone want to consume it. That makes someone want to believe in it.

The art doesn't have to necessarily be like that. But I knew that if people just listen to the songs, if we could just get their foot in the door, if we could just get you to listen to 30 seconds of Couch, of Where I Steer, of Bleach, of Ritalin, of any of those songs, we would have you. We would have you for the rest of your life. You would you would become a fan because you would like us, you would like our story, and you would like the message that we were doing.

So I said, "Okay, how do we provide the best service for people that feels real and authentic, that they feel like they have a home?" And that kind of just became, "Okay, well, how would I make friends with somebody?" And it'd be like, "Well, I'd send them a funny meme, or I'd crack jokes with them, or I'd get into this." And like, our songs are so obscure and like they're so such a weird genre that we can't really be like "This is a song about like my friend who died."

And then people are like, "Wow, 100,000 views." There are people out there who can do that, by the way. There are incredible songwriters out there. That's their whole pitch.

That didn't feel like it was us. And it was also a lot harder too because it was me doing the social media. I'm our [expletive] drummer. I should not be the face of this band.

Um and so that's how you get the wall of hot tattooed women. That's how you get the funny like memes. That's how you get the [expletive] posting. And it's created a community where they feel so engaged with us that you know, we'll go to a market that we've never played before, and they'll be like, "Here's 500 tickets."

And we're like, "Oh [expletive] That's crazy." That's like happening, you know? Like for reference, like if the band of our size going to a place that and this is not an ego thing at all. This is just like I think a referencing like a band of our size going to a market we've never played before, usually you do 75 to 150 tickets.

Bro, there's like major, major uh labels that have artists signed that they've given a lot of money and they've pumped a lot of money into their careers and they can't go self freaking. They just go play festivals and uh county fairs. Cuz that's the only way they're going to have any people around. They have number one hits on the radio and they can't sell 500 tickets in most any market.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's very real and it sounds like cuz every I mean, that's the tough thing about being like a more indie artist or I don't know, like at the level that maybe our world is at that like 500 tickets, even if you said 100 tickets, like, that sounds like a lot to me in most markets uh because of the lack of like money that's truly been pumped into it. When you compare it to some other people, but at the problem is like everybody's comparing every other artist to like Luke Combs and Morgan Wallen and Post Malone and it's like, "No, no, no. There's a whole world underneath that."

Like, that those aren't even those are like entities. Those are those are not even That's not them. And that's something too that like you've also had to realize is anyone who's getting into like stuff and you're like, "Oh, I want to push my band more on social or you know, my music more on social media." Hey, don't read the [expletive] comments.

That's going to be the worst thing you can do for your like Or if you are, have fun with it. Yeah, or if or if you are, be the most antagonizing. Don't take it personally because comparison is the thief of joy and that is the biggest mantra that I've had to just live on is cuz you look at you know, you're like, "Man, I mean, it does come up and it does come up and bite you a little bit where you're like, ah, you know, like, man, we're making this music and it feels so awesome. And it's like, but why can't we be as big as Koe Wetzel?

Why can't we be as big as Parker McCollum? Why can't we be as big as these bands? Like, I feel like we work hard enough. Our music's good enough.

Why isn't that And you just have to be like, hey, you can't think like that. Cuz if you think like that or if you go, well, we filmed a video of uh James, our lead singer, singing in a staircase. Uh, and, you know, Sierra Ferrell sang a staircase. Her video got a million views.

Our video got 5,000. Why can't It's the same thing. Why don't people resonate And like, if you continue to compare like that, it only ruins your mental health more and more and more. It only ruins your art, too, because then you start reaching and you start being like, okay, how do I sell my soul to, you know, how do I do the catchy gotcha like, um, you know, if you tag three friends in this video, uh, or, you know, whatever.

It's the ones where it's like, uh, your third at OG you a pizza, um, in the comments or something. something. Like, whatever. Like, you're doing those things and it's like, okay, yeah, you're going to get engagement on that, for sure.

But you're not going to build a community off of that. And people like people may listen to your music, but they're not going to Like, how often do people put out stuff where they don't ask for anything? Like, just let it stand alone. Like, do something cool that you think is cool and let it stand alone and don't ask for anything.

And be Yeah, be proud. proud of it. Put the full weight of your being with yourself. If you saw it, would you think it's entertaining?

Yes. Like, do you enjoy it? Like, have a And that's Like, do you think it's funny? Do you like it?

And that's the biggest thing cuz you're going to put out stuff that you like and it's going to [expletive] bomb, dude. Oh my god. I've Oh my god. I've spent hours on videos that I've been like, this is it.

This is the trend. Yeah, and I've spent it on songs and then nobody cares. Nobody likes it. Real.

Real, as well. Oh my gosh. I mean, yeah, cuz like we've written I mean, man, I've written songs that I've just been like, man, this is like awesome. And then we put it out and it's just like oh, nobody [expletive] with this song.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody likes this song at all. Um It is weird, too, that um there might even be songs that just don't the they're I don't like I don't want to use the word impossible, but they seem very, very difficult to connect like video and social media Yeah. with that song.

Some songs are harder than others. You know Right. And there's some that just seem to freaking just They just work. They just work.

And like we yeah, we definitely live in a we're in a phase right now of like things need to be like memeable, you know, so you can like reverse engineer some things on the way you might like write a song to whether or not it might or the part of the song that you use, you know, and trying to like memeify it or something. Yeah. And you can get lost in that sauce, too, but I just think people get way too worked up about the social media stuff and making video. And they get so angry about it and so dead set on like not wanting to do it and I'm like, well, find an element of it that you do like.

Like, why do you hate your videos so much? Do something else. you don't have to do like I can't stress this enough to people. I cannot stress this enough.

For a year and a half, I printed out photos of hot women on the internet that had tattoos that had significant followings on TikTok. I pinned it to a wall and then I said, "Hey, if this is your taste in women, you would like listening to our music." I need to repeat that for everybody listening. For a year and a [expletive] half.

That was the entire marketing strategy of this band. Because it was funny and it worked. And we got close to a million monthly listeners off of that. We got Yeah, but that idea probably came around by y'all yucking it up together and go, "Wouldn't this Wouldn't this be funny?"

That was idea That was idea 38. That's like that was the That was me being like, "Okay, this didn't work." The like it literally came of a spur of a moment of like, "This would be a funny one-off bit." Yeah.

And just doing it as like a I'm going to do like a funny conspiracy theory wall. And just be like, "Oh, like women with tattoos listen to music like this. Our music sounds like this. Crazy."

And like that was it. And then people were like, "More of this." And then And then that just kind of took off. And then I never really shut it down cuz I got married and it was hard to be like, "Look at these hot women."

when like I love my wife. So that was kind of That was our That was our thing. Dude, that's a real thing to consider. For sure, yeah.

Um but like it at No idea's a bad idea. And I think so many people are like, "No, I have to I have to stand in front of a camera and I have to have a microphone and I have to sing into it." And then it doesn't do well for the first three videos and then they hate it, but they're like, "I have to keep doing this." And it's like, "No, you can do Whatever.

You can be whoever You can be whoever you want to be and do like I've seen I've seen bands have success because they went into like Skate 3 and they modded their Skate 3 character to look like Jesus Christ and then they put their music behind Jesus Christ Skateboarder. skateboard. Exactly. And then it's like, "This song gets a million streams a month now."

That And so that goes back to my point that like I People can be good musicians and stuff and um But there's like this another this next layer of creativity with being able to connect with someone that I find to be more interesting. Like I don't get super jazzed if somebody's just like not interested in the photography and they're not interested in like the videos and uh it's like, "No, I just play music." And I'm like, "Well, that's one creative endeavor." But I am I am very interested in people that are good at all the all-encompassing creative endeavors that are involved in all of that.

Like Cuz why would you not? Like you're you have I know Yeah, I agree. Why would you not? the Like I want to be able to communicate like communicating my music goes deeper than just playing it.

Cuz think about this, right? I think Nirvana's such a huge influence just because again, I come back to that whole they were counterculture until they became the culture, right? Alice in Chains Alice in Chains is way more influential on me musically. I love the '90s grunge.

I love Alice in Chains. I got them tattooed on my body. I'm wearing an Alice in Chains shirt right now. Um they're more influential on me musically.

Nirvana is more influential on me culturally because could you imagine if they just said, "Man, yeah, we just write songs and we don't really [expletive] care about what the album art looks like and we don't care about what our merch looks like and we don't care about We don't care about our perception with our fans and there's that video of them finding out Madonna's selling tickets for like $65 and they're like "That's insane." Like and could you imagine if people just didn't But they did care about that. And that's what made the cover of Nevermind one of the most iconic album covers of all time. It's what made the smiley face t-shirt one of the most recognizable t-shirts ever.

And it's because you have intention behind that art and you have the ability through everything that you do to make like impacts. And your merch can be worn some like that's something that I take really great pride in too is our merch is like a lot of people have thought this against us actually where they've been like, "No, your merch needs to be like it just need to say Dexter and the Moon Rocks and like your tour dates on it." And I'm like, "Okay, that's cool. Our die-hard fans might like that, but who's going to wear that because it looks cool?

Who's going to Who like who's going to wear that because they think it's a part of like the culture or the vibe or they feel like it fits into them like the same way that you may look at a Vans t-shirt or like someone looks at a pearl snap. Where they're like, this is how I feel. This is cool. And so, that's something where every merch design that we do, I'm like, I want it to be a shirt first.

And I want it to be something cool to where someone could walk into it in a PacSun or in a um in a buckle or something like that and look at it and be like, "Oh, this looks cool. I'll buy it." And then someone walks up to him and goes, "Oh, I love that band. Name five songs."

And they go, "I didn't know this was a band." Like that's the that's what I cuz that's a way better conversation starter. If you're talking to me and you're like, "Well, that's a Super Six shirt. Where did you get it?"

And I'm like, "Actually, it's a band." And you're like, "Oh, that's cool." Instead of just like plastered But it's care. Yeah.

You cuz and you have understand some people are better at certain things than other people and you might have limitations on what you might be good at, but I kind of don't buy that even like you can you can get better at things. Like it's not like you didn't just wake up one day and like know how to design t-shirts and you know what I mean? Like you can you can learn it. You can figure it out.

But not caring about it, apathy is as I've always hated apathy and as I get older, apathy is by far my least favorite attribute. Like what? Which is funny cuz Nirvana's thing was like all supposed to be apathy, but I didn't buy it. But here's the thing.

So, one of the best gifts my wife got me, um she got me a full photocopied um it's all of Kurt Cobain's journals that they found throughout his entire life photocopied into one book. And if you read some of that stuff I mean he was he was kick he was kicking Dave Grohl out there's a letter of him that I think he either scrapped or something, but it's a three page it's a three like page letter basically him being like, "Dave, we have to kick you out because we want to practice five times a week and you live an hour and a half away and you can't make the drive." Which Dave Grohl is the most iconic drummer of all time, and Kurt was like, "You're not taking it seriously enough. We're going to kick you out."

And so, like, I think their apathy was towards society. It was towards the government. It was towards like how people perceive them, and I love that. Like, [expletive] the government.

You heard it here first, folks. Um so, that's a true Texan right there. Yeah, [expletive] the government. Um which is hilarious because my wife works for the government.

What does she do? She's in the navy. Oh, really? Yeah.

Um but, I love like I'm a big like you I love sol- like, you got to love the soldiers. Like, they're not the ones [expletive] No, bro. That's cuz dude, the people like work if I'm sitting next to a senator at the bar, I'm just going to be like, politely, dude, I don't care about the 70 and you can collect social security. Maybe you shouldn't be a US senator anymore.

Yeah, and you're already rich. And Yeah. Maybe because you and you didn't really provide anything to society. Yeah, I'm 24 and I don't have health care because it's too expensive.

Granted, I am a musician. I get that. I have health Good for you. We don't yet.

for it. Yeah, we're working on getting health care. Um But then there's much people that have health care, too, and they don't pay for it. But, I'm paying for it.

And that's also the government. They just get to decide who they're going to help and who they're not going to help, which is BS, man. I don't need daddy government doing any of that. I got it, daddy.

Um You know, his name is Dexter in the Moon Rocks. Heyo, daddy. Heyo. Heyo.

Um Yeah, but I mean, I get the apathy of like back to the whole Nirvana thing. Like, they hated the government, but you're going to tell me you don't have You're going to have apathy for like your art? Like, you are in a for- like, I am in a fortunate position where I get to I technically speaking, technically, I am being paid a salary to be here and like talk to you and promote the band. That is a part of my job.

That isn't I am on the clock drinking beer and smoking a cigar and having a great conversation with you. That is incredibly lucky. That is That is insane. There are people out there working 12-hour shifts on rigs, on ranches, on like construction.

Like that is could not express how wonderful it is to be here and be doing this. Um and so why would I have apathy for that art and those people who support that and like I can have apathy for the people like I can have apathy for the stadium country. It is tough though because it does There is a part of marketing your music that it does seem like it's I always I've always thought about like an audience um as a bit like dating where it's like if they know you like them when you first start dating somebody, right? You're not supposed to call them like within the first 3 days and you come off a little you're coming off a little strong.

them too soon. Yeah, right? They don't want to know you like you like them, but you'd be okay without them, right? And you don't like them too much and you're not coming on too strong.

Like an audience in ways is kind of like that. They can sense if they if you if you want them to like you too much, they're like easy dude, you're coming on a little strong. But then if you don't care at all, that's also not something that they want. See, that's and then you can just go forever down that digressing and then just at some point I'm like, all right, I'm going to just be myself.

That See, that's something I never like I get I get where you're coming from. That's something that like I never felt cuz just I've we have made it a point for me where I always wanted to growing up I always wanted to be the kid that Dave Grohl called up on stage. I always wanted to be the kid that you see that like I'm a huge baseball guy. I played baseball in college where it's like Mike Trout played catch with an 11-year-old kid before whatever, right?

Um before batting practice. And so when we first started out, I was like, "I'm going to make a pledge. I'm going to answer every DM that anybody sends us." And unless it's some like weird freaky [expletive] um where they're like, "Suck my toes" or something, then I'm going to be like, "No, actually I'd respond to that."

Cuz that's Yeah, you probably put it on the I would screenshot that, yeah. I would screenshot that and be like, "This is funny. I'm going to expose you for this." But like, you know, um but it was like cuz why like you are paying money to see me play and you are the reason I can pay my mortgage.

You are the reason I can almost afford healthcare. You're the reason that like I like I got my wedding paid for because of the stuff we're doing on the road. Like this is a job, and so for me it was like, "I want to go balls to the wall and be like, hey, like I want to I want to be there as much as I can for our fans." And I want to be able to talk like People still DM us and they're like, "Hey, like can you send a video to like my 12-year-old son saying happy birthday?"

And, you know, it I'll be tired as [expletive] on the road, and I'll just be like, "Yeah." And I'll like, you know, look I'll look busted as hell, but I'll go into a hotel hallway and I'll be like, "Hey, you know, Braden, happy 12th birthday, man. Really appreciate you being a fan." Cuz like that's 15 seconds of my life, you know, 30 seconds of my life that I may never I may never like I did it and I'm not really going to think about it again, um just because it's like, "Oh, like that's a cool moment."

Like whatever, but like that could be the thing for that 12-year-old boy or girl or whatever that makes him go, "Wow, I want to be a musician or I want to be I want to be kind. I want to be a good person. I want Yeah, like where do you think you got that from? Man, I think I think what really did it for me I think my parents, obviously.

I think they're some of the greatest people in the world, but I think what really did it for me was man, I 17 years old and I had a super big um obsession with the Black Keys. Just a super big one. My There was the first band my sister showed me. I remember she showed me Tighten Up off of a CD in her Jeep um in 2012.

Um she had a CD. It was that and Breezeblocks by Alt-J. Um I don't know that band. They're a really weird band.

They're super weird. Um but I got deep into the Black Keys, like deep. Uh there was a point in time where you could play me a Black Keys song and I could tell you the I could tell you the name of the song, the year it came out, the album it was on, and the order in which it was on that album. Okay.

So I could be like, "Oh, this is the fifth song on their third studio album and also they got nominated for a Grammy here, here, and here." Black Keys were big for me, too. Not that big, but I just became obsessed with them. Yeah.

And um right when I became obsessed with them, I was 13 years old, they didn't tour anymore. They just They weren't touring. They took a 5-year break. And uh they come back and when I'm 17 years old and I finally have some of my own money and I'm like, "You know what?

I'm going to go" No, it was not I was 19. I was 19 cuz I um I missed a baseball practice in college cuz I uh I had to tell my um coach, I was like, "I'm missing practice to go see this." And he was like, "Okay." Um but they came back when I was 19 and I wrote them a three-page letter.

I wrote them a letter that I said, "I'm a huge fan of yours. You guys are coming back on tour. There are songs" cuz they have like 10 studio albums. And I was like, "There are songs from like your first and second and third albums that mean a whole lot to me that I see isn't on y'all's setlist" cuz you can just Google people's setlist now.

Um and I was like, "I see these like is there any way you could play them, please, at this show coming up at Dickies Arena?" That's where they played. And you sent it to an email you found or something? No.

No, no, no. No, no, no. Instagram? I hand wrote this [expletive] You sent it where?

And I They had a mailing address that I sent Where'd you find that? I found it online. I just Googled it. I think it was like their manager's office or some [expletive] Um and I sent that letter out and they sent me back they sent me back a handwritten note.

Um, which at the time I thought was signed by them. Now that I'm a little older, I'm like, they didn't sign this [expletive] letter. Still don't care. I still don't care.

They sent me back a they even had that in place to be able to handle it. They sent me a handwritten note. Um, their new vinyl, their new album on vinyl. Need to figure out who their management is.

And um, uh, and their CD, brand new. They sent me the whole thing for free, sent to my address. And then they said, um, when you come to the show, hit us up. Um, here you reach us reach out at this email and we'll take care of you.

Um, I came to the show, I reached out to the email, it fell through. I don't really care though cuz I still got to see him. The letter was super cool. But I was like, that was one of the most like, oh my god, I could be a musician.

I could do this. This is super cool. Like this is and that moment really stuck with me. And so it's like, so many people are spending, you know, you know, I mean, it's you got to, you know, I think you're spending 100 bucks to come see us if it's a date night, right?

Cuz like tickets are about 25 bucks. You buy a $35 shirt, maybe you get a drink. It's about 100 bucks, you know. Um, and it's like people are spending that money and I don't money.

It's a it's a lot of money, man. Yeah. And I don't necessarily think people are entitled to have that like interaction or entitled to get a signature. Like I think there should be some peace.

I think there should be some like respect people's boundaries, you know, stuff like that. But it's if you're going to spend that money, I'm going to take the time to like I'm going to I'm going to take the time to care about you and talk to you and, you know, and there are fans that have like there are fans that we've only been touring for 2 years. There are fans that have come to 11 shows. And I'm like, holy [expletive] And they're like, yeah, we flew in from Boston and we're playing in [expletive] Arizona.

I'm like, why are you here? That's crazy. And so, yeah, I mean, it's 30 minutes every day out of my day to respond to everybody's DMs. And it's why like why would I not do that?

Why would I not care that much? Do you ever miss some? Oh, all the time. Yeah, okay.

Or some are just like some are downright like I mean, some are like big asks. Some are big asks, and some are ones where you have to be careful because you don't know if they're scams or not. Oh, yeah. Where like you don't you don't know what's up with that.

Or some are like we have stances now where like people be like, "Hey, can you donate to this charity?" Or stuff like that. And we don't we donate to we pick two charities. We support them um every year.

And that's the stance that we take just because then if it's like if we do one GoFundMe, then we got to do everybody's GoFundMe. And then that get And then that And it's not that we don't care. It's just there's only there's only a finite amount of things we can do. Yeah, and you can do so many things right and so many good things.

And then there's one person that you don't do something for or whatever. And you miss cuz you're tired or Whatever. I mean, or you know, a charity event or something where it's like I can't do it. And then it is unfortunate at times that sometimes that person will then go drag you through the mud.

And it's like, "Well, but I you can't really focus on it, you know, cuz it's like it's you know it's not fair. And even if they think you're a terrible person, they still don't even really know you as a person. So, I try not to really think about that too awful much. It's tough, though.

Even like going out to the merch booth after shows, I've always been big on that. Like I'll go out there and hang out with you You always do. as long as possible. I have had some uh multiple moments though at merch booths where it's like just totally inappropriate.

Like I mean, people have done some pretty wacky stuff where it's like, uh okay, that's not cool. And it's like but you can't you also can't like freak out in the moment cuz then it makes it weird for everybody else. And You know, and that's so interesting cuz like It's really disrespectful stuff, honestly. It is.

And that's like are drunk, and they're Well, and it's hard too, because it's so interesting where it's like you know I've never had someone grab my ass until I started going out to the merch booth and then you're like, "Oh, hey." Yeah. And then it's like, "Okay, now I'm going to stay behind the guardrail cuz I don't want to do that." And then you have people being like, you know, they're being like, you know, like straight up like, "You're super hot.

Let's come back to my place later." I'm like, "Hey, girly pop." Married. I love my wife.

Yeah. No. Goodbye. And but like you're also not trying to be a head you're like, "Get the [expletive] away from me.

Like I love my wife. Leave me alone." But you can't like you can't do that. You can't just be like, "Hey, [expletive] you.

Get out of here." I mean we say you can't. Maybe we should. You know, I think everybody around would probably even be like I think they would, but then I just feel bad cuz I'm being mean to someone.

I know. I get it, dude. I totally get it. Yeah.

It would I would Yeah, it's always It's funny too that like it's kind of easy to uh think about those interactions um and not take them super serious because the only reason they're interested is because of who you are. It's like Bingo. My wife was with me when we were living in like a 12-ft wall or a short wall uh horse trailer and I was shoeing horses and making 100 bucks a day and I had no music out. And it's like it's pretty easy to see people, you know, now that my not act like that and look at it and be like, "The only reason you're inter- You would not be it You would not have been interested in me 7 years ago."

Dude, what's worse is um So, I met my wife at a show, but I met my wife when we were like a bar band. Um I signed her tits at a show. That's perfect. Which is incredible.

But you weren't married at that time. No. Yeah, well, that's good. I was singles out.

Um but we weren't She didn't She didn't even know who we were. She was just there. And she's like, "The drummer's hot." And she's like, "We saw my boobs."

And I was like, "Only if you let me film it and put it on TikTok." And she said, "Okay." And um And so I like But I talk about her all the time. And it still like sucks where it's like people are like people will like DM me like, "Yo, is the drummer single?"

And I'm like, "If you did any amount of research Yeah. into this, you would see in my bio it literally says I love my wife, leave me alone." And by the way, I would like to also say not like people are coming out of the woodworks being like "Fuck me, yeah." Like that's not happening at all.

The my bio is mostly a joke cuz it makes my wife like a little embarrassed and I think it's kind of [expletive] funny. Um so it's not like again, I don't want it to seem like people are like coming up every show and being like "Let's go [expletive] in the alley." Like that's not happening. Um thank god.

Um cuz most people know I am married. Uh but there's like, you know, it's like once every year, you know, once or twice. And then you're kind of just like "Man, I don't want to deal with this." Yeah, yeah.

But you do want to be able to connect with people, you know. And you don't want to act like you're like too cool for everybody. It's a difficult thing to navigate. But when the dudes do it, I love it.

Oh, 100% dude. Yeah, I'm all for it. like, "Bro, you want to go make out?" I'm like, "Yeah, bro."

I've been there. Yeah, been there, dude. Just got back. Dude, some guys So I have a I have a thigh tattoo of the band's logo.

I was just looking at it. Um it's not right there. Well, I didn't see the high one. Yeah, yeah.

I was looking at the low one. got a high one. Yeah. Dangerous.

Uh yeah. And so I showed it in a TikTok and some dudes got it. And so now they'll come to shows and I know who they are and we'll just drop our pants and lift up the tattoo and we'll just take photos. And I'm like, it's awesome.

I think it's great. Sometimes we'll say [expletive] on podcasts too. Like I was like, "Oh, like someone bring a live chicken and sacrifice one at one of our shows." Clearly joking.

Clearly joking. Clearly joking. And someone then was like I'm bringing the chicken. I was like no.

I was like you can't. I was like no. I was like you can't bring it. You can't we can't kill a chicken in this venue.

No, please don't kill him at all. Like don't do it don't do it at all. I mean unless you're going to eat the chicken. But don't but it doesn't need to be a sacrifice either.

That's pretty insane. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Just making sure you were going to be No, we should kill the chicken. We should kill the chicken. We can kill the chicken but we'll eat the chicken. You know.

No, no, no. We just Let it's blood. Which is yeah. We just we bathe in its blood.

Dude, I can't take jokes. Stop. All right. So do you all have new music coming out at all?

Oh, yeah, man. Wait, I forgot I have to like promote things. No, no, no. I'm Well, I mean No, that was me.

That was me No, no, no. That was me [expletive] around. No, don't. Um Your la- I talked to your label earlier.

Uh yeah. Yeah. Called him. And then I hung up.

Good. Yeah. They said hey and I said no. Yeah.

Um no, so actually kind of going back to we do have new music coming out. Um So we've got these four songs that we recorded with Ryan Hewitt who we love. He's a phenomenal producer. Um he did a lot of like the early you know this but for anyone who [expletive] doesn't know who Ryan Hewitt is, he did a lot of like the Chili Peppers and the early like 2000s rock and roll.

Who are some of the other people he's done? Uh so he's done Chili Peppers. He did he's done some Noah Kahan stuff which is two different things. I don't know why that's just the first thing that popped into my mind.

awesome he is? Yeah. Oh, he's sick. Oh, he did um he was the original sound engineer on the self-titled by Blink-182.

So he tracked um I Miss You and like all those. And so that was he did that, right? And um when we signed with the label, we were kind of like oh, like we're going to we're going to we're we don't want to be labeled as Texas country. Cuz when you get labeled as Texas country, sometimes it feels hard to like get out of that and um and so our label was kind of like, "Okay, you hate you hate Robert Earl Keen?"

No, I love Robert Earl Keen. I love Robert Earl Keen, but I hate like That was my joke. No, I know. It's just that's a real thing cuz it's like I wish like I wish the people in Nashville didn't have a [expletive] stick up their ass and weren't like, "Well, that's Texas country.

We're never going to let that be mainstream." Like I wish Texas country didn't exist. I wish it was like the label, not the I wish the label didn't exist. I wish it was this is The purity of music.

Just This is good music, yeah. but Nashville didn't like it because it wasn't the polished pop [expletive] that [expletive] you know, Lady Antebellum was singing or Lady A now. Sorry, not Lady Antebellum. That's right.

Yeah, Lady A now. I thought it was I thought it was just The Chicks. No, The Dicks. Yeah, well.

Um shout out The Chicks actually. Traveling Soldiers a banger. Um Yeah, that would actually be a great punk song. Oh my god.

But uh so they we kind of started recording and we started losing a little bit of our twang. Like we started getting we started not being a southern rock western space grunge band and we started being more of a like indie rock band. And so we just did four songs with Hewitt that we're really proud of and we're really proud of the music. We really like it, but we kind of looked up and we're like, "Oh man, I feel like a lot of these new songs if you listen to you wouldn't be like those boys are from Texas or those boys like they have some like they grew up in you know, they grew up in a double wide and they grew up doing this and like they like and I don't think there's anything wrong about that.

It's just we missed that. fully represent you. it didn't fully represent us. And so we're still putting those songs out.

We're super excited. The one that I mentioned earlier, Flavorless, it's coming out. Like those are going to be really good songs. I'm really excited to do that.

But the biggest thing that we're doing, which I think will be I'm either breaking it here too early when this comes out or it will be out in a couple weeks when this comes out, but we're doing something called the Donkey Flats. Um and that is the name of the neighborhood in which um our bass player lived and where his uh like where his like one of his double wides was. Where was it Where was this at? Uh it's in it's in like West Texas.

And um we recorded all of our music out of his closet when we were coming up. We did it on Excuse me. Sorry. We did it on basically like this Amazon Alexa.

It's called an Spire Studio where we recorded it off an iPhone. And um that's how we did like we did Couch on that. We did Kate McKinnon on that. We did Devil Like Me.

We did Space Invader. Every like all the stuff that got us big and like kind of got us signed to a label that people were like I [expletive] with this like this music. Um And we're like, "Man, what if we went back to that? And what if we just And it's been 3 years, so we've gotten so much better.

We've learned so much from Hewitt and about tones and how to record and all that." So, we're going to go back to Ty's house into a studio in his double wide um which is like it's literally a fourth the size of this room we're in right now. Um and we're going to go and we're going to record some red dirt grunge music. Like some straight-up like I'm talking Hayes Carll meets Nirvana type [expletive] I love it.

calling it the Donkey Flats and we're going to do it all on our own. We're going to mix the whole thing. We're going to do everything um and we're filming it all. So, we rented three cameras and um we're setting it up in three corners of the room and we're going to record We're going to try to do it over 6 days.

We're going to record the whole thing and we're going to make a documentary um on each song on how each song was made, what was the creative thought process, why do we do it? We're going to sit down and do like interviews of like, "Hey, I'm James, our lead singer. I just got done singing and this is how I thought it This is what I think the song's about. This is what this means.

This is what it This is what the vibe is." Art, baby. And we're going to encompass the whole thing and I think kind of the goal is to see how that goes, to see if people want more of that, to see if people like where that is and if they want I think they do. I think they want more of that like sad cowboy grunge vibe.

Um and if that goes well, we may turn it into this like series where it's like Donkey Flats and then it's Donkey Flats 2 and Donkey Texas rock and roll, dude. And like and then and then we see and we you know, I think this is all just me planning and I've no idea if any of this is going to you know, it all goes into how it's received, all that stuff. But then it's like, "Okay, well, now we just start making music for fun." And it's like, "Okay, we just wrote a new song.

Cool, let's go to Ty's house and let's put together another Donkey Flats." Or we just wrote a new song and it's like, "Hey, who's in town? Who can we call up to come feature on this? Like who do we Who do we know in Texas right now that is in this scene that we're trying to build?

And how do we How do we get them on one of our songs? How do we write with them? How do we And like being far less focused on like we need to make sure this is the right song and just being like, "Hey, we're going to make art. Do we like it?

We like it? Cool. We're going to put it out." Totally.

And that's So, that comes out December 3rd, tentatively. Um which I think cuz um he was saying or at least I was talking to Steve, um he was saying uh this will be out like this mid-November or something like that. Probably. Which I think we will have already announced it's coming out.

The documentary thing might be a surprise. So, really exciting me the way that you're talking about a of this music cuz it's where my head's been at for a while as well. And uh my stuff's definitely probably a little bit like bluesier, has a more blues elements to it. Uh and um but what I've been wanting to hear from myself is way more what you're describing and I don't hear a ton of people talk about it the way that you've talked about it.

So, it really excites me. Yeah. Cuz dude, I think Like selfishly it excites me even. Oh my god.

Like what's a what's a shame is if I think I think if I think Austin was Nashville in when like if I think all the people that are in Nashville were in Austin when Robert Earl Keen was happening, when Turnpike was happening, when Pat Green was happening, I think we'd be talking about having Nashville country and then real country. Like I think it's all a perception issue is what it's been is the people in Texas have not like they just there hasn't been good marketing like not good marketing, but there hasn't been the industry push behind them No. because people are like, oh like this isn't this isn't what's you know, this isn't Dan and Shay and this isn't like um you know, um I can't think of anybody you know, this is it always had a bit of an edge to it. Uh and then the personalities were definitely it was that Texas thing dude, it's that independent spirit like was beautiful and I think now that and by the way, no shade to any of those people.

Like this isn't like Luke Combs or anything like that, right? But I think which I [expletive] love Luke Combs. Um but I think now with the advent of social media, the playing field's level. Is the industry now the Nashville industry has way less sway over being like, well we found him in Nashville, so we're going to mold him into this that we already know makes money.

And now it's like, hey Texas has leveled the playing field. We get to do this. We get to like We get to be this real thing and you can't really stop us because now all of the power's in our hands because we can go put together a Tik Tok campaign independently and blow this [expletive] the [expletive] up. And that's the biggest that's like that's the thing that I'm the most excited about with the music and what we're doing and just our how we're going to do it and I mean we cuz we've got some I mean we've got one like very Diamonds and Gasoline style song that we're going to put on there.

And then there's another like very feels like 2016 like Texas rock and then a straight up just Dexter and the Moon Rocks like hey this is probably an alt rock song but we're going to put it on here and call it country. Um like [expletive] you. Um and so I like I'm just I'm excited I'm excited about that we get to do that and then people's perceptions like this is what it means to be Western Space Grunge Sad Cowboy like this is what this is and I think that's cool. Do I have permission to start using Western Space Grunge?

Yeah, I don't care. Okay. Yeah. I needed to ask you before I started using it.

think anybody can use it. I mean I don't think it's a you know, I don't think it's a crazy thing that you know, I've talked to our management about being on Should we trademark that [expletive] phrase? Absolutely. Which I think we're going to but it's not like but we're it's not like we're going to come after you or anything.

no, I already have it on video. I get to use it. yeah, yeah, you get to yeah. You're like uh I think you're a genius.

I appreciate think you know that. I appreciate that. About that. But you might know that about yourself.

I suspect it. But I don't I don't know. You know, I have a I have a feeling Oh my gosh, that's so funny. Mhm.

But gets really hard is and I think you relate to this is when you don't talk is when you talk to people whose job it is to be the industry. And then you look at them and you go, "Hey, we have to do it this way." And they go, "That's not the most cost-effective beneficial like that's not going to make sense. Blah."

"We need to do it this way." And you're like, "Okay, we're going to do it your way. We're going to waste seven grand. It's not going to work.

And then we're going to come back we're going to do it my way and it is going to work. And it's not because like it's not an ego thing. It's just I'm better at my job. Do you ever have a hard I know what I am talking about.

Yeah, so do you your mind is running like a million miles an hour? Constantly, yes. Yes. Very bad ADHD.

And you're incredibly smart and very intuitive and thoughtful. Thank you. I appreciate everything you're saying. Well, but do you Okay.

sincerely. Like that came off asshole-ish. I'm sorry. No, no, no, not at all.

No, no. Uh Do you Did you find like growing up or even maybe recently that you sometimes feel like you need to mute that to make people around you feel more comfortable? Like is it isolating at times? Cuz you Cuz your confidence level with which you talk about things um and your intelligence level, do you ever feel like you don't want to intimidate people maybe around you?

Um or you don't want to come off as arrogant or cocky? So I actually always I have this thing where I always defer to people that I think are in higher positions than me. Um So like I've never done a podcast before. Like I've never run a podcast before, right?

And so I will always right now think you are smarter than me in the podcast realm and that I need to learn from you. And I think that's what's made it really beneficial for me, right? And um so I will always defer to people and the problem is that when I defer to people, I trust them for about three months and then I kind of realized, "Oh, you're not as experienced as I thought you were or you maybe don't know what you're talking about." Okay, well, let maybe let me ask it in a different way.

Have you been confronted by people that accuse you of thinking you know it all? Yeah. How do you handle that? You I mean I'm a lot.

I'm a lot. I'm a lot I'm a I am I know I am. I that about you. I'm very confident in You remind me of some people in my family.

Thank you. Yeah. I hope. Yeah, yeah, no, no.

I mean it's like I was raised around like kind of eccentric people that were like confident and they were just doing a lot. Yeah, it's because like I'm not I'm not just I'm not just shooting [expletive] out my ass. You know what I mean? Like I'm not like I'm I work really hard.

I grind it out and I know what I am after and I think and I know I That right there intimidates a ton of people. Yeah. And I and it's hard because what that means is then you can't um you can't [expletive] me. That's what's hard is I like I really hate being manipulated and not in the way of like not in the manipulated way that you think you're like you're think but like kind of the way of like, "Well, that's a good idea.

Let's talk about it a month from now." It's like, "Hey, that probably means you don't think it's a good idea. Tell me right now." Like let's have an honest like [expletive] feelings.

We don't need I don't I'm so analytical. It's like I don't need you to baby my feelings. I don't need you to do anything like that. I need you to tell me what the problem is and what limb I need to cut off in order to cauterize the wound and make sure the body keeps moving.

That is that is how I look at things. I look at things as ones and zeros. What is the most effective maneuver is do we need to move a here to sacrifice it in order to get a bigger play here, here, and here. Do we need to be like how do we need to be analytical about the moves we make and the songs we release and all of like and all of that to position us in the best way possible.

And I don't need you to I don't need you to hurt my feelings. Like I don't need you to coddle my feelings. Uh that's more what I mean. I don't care if you hurt my feelings.

Just tell me what do you think it is. Let's have a conversation and let's figure out what we need to do. And I think that's I'm just very upfront. Like if you say something and you're like, "I think you should release on a Sunday."

I'm going to be like, "Hey, I think that's a dumb idea. And I think that's a dumb idea because these metrics." And that's really off-putting to people sometimes because they're used to people being like, "Well, Sunday's an interesting release, but have you considered that maybe we should talk about releasing it on a Wednesday? And let's come let's circle back.

Let's circle back Synergize together. synergize. And it's to me it's like, "Hey, my time is valuable. You are wasting my time.

You are wasting my time by trying to [expletive] me right now. I don't care. I don't I don't need to know like I want to get to know you personally, absolutely. But this train is rolling and I'm trying to make it so that me and the rest of this band and our kids never have to work a day in our lives, okay?

For the last 27 years, everyone in this band has been making $17 an hour doing hard manual labor except me. I was making $17 an hour teaching baseball lessons. I was not a blue-collar family. Like I hand I'm very adamant to people that I want them to know that.

Um I was raised in that culture, but I was very fortunate that my parents made a good amount of money. I got good academic scholarships. I went to college. I went to I was in law school for a little bit.

Um and uh like but the you know, the guys they just they were working manual labor jobs. Like all that's just kind of what was around them, right? hyper-focused and diligent about what you do. That what I care about the most is like I want to look around and I want to be like, I want to make sure that when we have kids um that everybody's wife is taken care of.

When we have kids, everybody's kid is taken care of. That everybody's kids kid is taken care of. Like, this is a position where the music industry works to create generational wealth that can have lasting impact on all of us. And I take that very [expletive] seriously.

Like, incredibly seriously. And I think for some people they're like, "Oh, I'm working a job." And I love my job. And I want to do well at my job.

And I think it's off-putting for me, like I'm off-putting to them because I'm like, "Hey, I'm here to be the big like the biggest band in the world is my floor. That's That is what I am demanding. I am demanding greatness. And I understand that is really hard for people sometimes.

And I am a lot. And so then when things don't get delivered, I get frustrated because I'm like, "I'm busting my ass 24/7." To And also, again, busting my ass by creating [expletive] TikToks and writing songs. And like, it's not the same as busting my ass to work a 12-hour [expletive] shift on um you know, on an oil rig or something like that.

Like, those aren't comparable. And but I want to achieve greatness. but even acknowledging that shows you how much you care about the opportunity. Yes.

Cuz not everybody gets that opportunity. You only get this once. Right. And so I think a lot of people find that um and I think I am hard to work with.

And I think one thing that like I really Thank God for our new managers cuz they really understand that. And they'll sometimes be in my ear and they'll be like, "Hey, make sure you're Make sure you're thanking the troops. And you're thanking the team. And you're reiterating that."

And I'm like, "And I do try to make a really cognizant effort of that because I know I have a strong personality. So I really do want to find people and be like, 'Hey, I know I was tough on this, this, or this. but like I really appreciate what you're doing. Thank you for working with us.

Thank you for doing this. Like this is why I'm Well, there's some there's times that if you are incredibly serious and hardworking and you're not the train's not stopping for anybody. And if everybody around you quit, you're still going to be pushing the train forward. That at times for people that it might intimidate I've noticed though often times try to make you feel insecure about what you're doing because they're just not willing to put in the same amount of effort.

So, they will accuse somebody like you of being like, "Oh, well, you're just a know-it-all. Oh, well, you're just hard to work with." Or all those types of things because it's like, "No, no, no, no, no." Like some of that might even be true a little bit.

Sure, okay, whatever. But like you're insecure about the lack of effort and work that you're putting in and you're just trying to tear me down to your level. Yeah. Cuz I make you feel insecure.

I tell people this. So, I played baseball. Baseball's really formative for me. I tell people this all the time.

It's like, "Hey, I don't give a [expletive] if a ball's hit at you 105 miles an hour and you take it off the chest and a run scores. I don't care if that's going to happen. What's going to piss me off is if you drop a routine fly ball and you keep dropping routine fly balls. That's what's going to piss me off."

It's probably effort. It's like it's at like I if we get beat 15 to zero and it's because they hit 15 home runs, [expletive] that happens, man. But if we get 15 if we get beat 15 to zero and we got 15 errors and nobody's there and nobody's putting in the effort and nobody's caring and nobody's communicating and we're not talking to each other and we're not trying to work as a team and there's not an understanding of what's going on and there's not like a level of give a [expletive] that's what that's what bothers me. unattractive trait I can find.

Apathy and lack of effort. And that was like a really big I so like back to the original where you cuz like why are you this way? Or like when did you become accepting of like being this um Yeah, cuz that's a transition. Do I want to Do I want to fully commit to being kind of who I am in this way?

Cuz that's going to come with some um darts thrown at you, you know? It's going to come with And you Were there times in your life that you kind of tried to mute that cuz you're clearly different than most people. It's going to come with a It's going to come with a coach that recruits you um to play baseball in college and gives you your dream of being a Division I baseball player and then realizes that maybe you weren't ready to play at the Division I level. And he pushes you so hard because he's upset that you aren't the talent that you panned out to that you walk onto a field one night and you almost kill yourself when you're 19 and a freshman and then your best friend who's the guy that's a really big fan of you um he was the he was the um Wow, I'm going to tell this story in a minute.

I haven't told this story publicly. Um uh Give me some nachos. He was doing He was doing laundry. Um and he was the grad assistant.

It was his fifth year. And I will always love this man with every fiber of my being, but he was It was at midnight I think and I'd had just a really rough week of fall ball and I had sat at home plate for like 30 minutes and it was raining outside I think or something like that. And I walked back in I didn't think anybody would be in the clubhouse. All the lights are always on in the clubhouse.

And um it was his fifth year he tore his labrum. So he was going to pitch, but he was the he got turned into a grad assistant cuz he tore his labrum. Um and he looked at me and he just said point-blank he was like, "Fox." I was like, "Yeah, what's up, Scotty?"

And he was like, "Are you going to kill yourself?" And I was like "Oh, Scotty, I don't know." And from then on I was a freshman he just took me under his wing and he was like "I'm not letting you out of my sight." And it wasn't I don't think I don't think I ever would have gone through with it.

I think I loved I loved living too much. I loved my mom too much. I couldn't do that to my mom. Um like I just a that's a that's a real uh It's and it was and it was you know, and I don't again I don't think it was I don't have any ill will towards this coach or anything like that.

Um and I think I was I think I really loved my time at ACU, but I think it was I was this very strong personality. And I was someone who didn't necessarily understand feel. Um and what I mean by that is like feel for the locker room vibe. How to just be like a just a chill dude.

You know what I mean? Like for a lack of a better word, right? Like I took Cuz you're cuz you're like naturally not. I'm not.

No, I'm not. And I take everything literally. It's really hard. I don't know if you've noticed throughout this entire podcast, you will make a joke and my first response is to actually give you a real response.

And then I'm like oh and then in the back of my mind like I'll already be like oh no, actually and then I'll be like oh, he's making a joke. Like you don't need to respond to this with a fact. But that's what I was doing and when I got recruited I got recruited along with nine other freshmen. It was the head coach's first year who asked that head coach is still a phenomenal head coach and I love him.

Um but it was the head coach's first year. He recruited nine freshmen, I think. Um there were four returning seniors and then there were 30 junior college bandits. He just got some Juco bandits that were just some [expletive] nasty Just dude, they those were dudes that were like I don't come here to play school, I come here to play baseball.

And they are the typical just dudes. And so they were all you know, [expletive] with each other and I was thinking I thought it was literal and I kind of became the punching bag. And that made it a little harder. And I they weren't doing it intentionally, but I didn't know that as like a young kid.

And then on top of that, I was so stressed out cuz I wasn't performing for baseball. And that made everything really hard. And um and so then I kind of I got through that and COVID happened. So it canceled that season that I was in.

I came back. The coach was still on my ass and I was just like man, [expletive] you. [expletive] this. I'm a I'm I don't need this.

And I transferred to a different school. I tried to play baseball. The baseball gods politely said, "Please never play baseball ever again. You're not that good."

And I went, "You know what? You're right." And I transferred back to ACU. I graduated a year early.

And funny enough, I did the ESPN commentary for the baseball team for the coaching staff that I was pissed off at, which I thought was hilarious. Um But I mean and again, I don't again, it's not like I'm not I don't you know, for anybody that might go and like look this up and be like, "I wonder who these coaches were?" or anything like that. I don't think it was anything they intentionally knew was happening.

There is just a level of stress that can only be But you felt like an outsider and you felt so different than everybody else. Cuz I wasn't I was so literal. I was for lack of a better word, I was super autistic. That's like what like that's what it was is I was super I was hyper literal and I didn't really understand a lot of the clubhouse jokes.

I didn't understand like a lot of the stuff that was going on there, the social cues. I was weird. I would say like I would say the wrong thing at the wrong time and it wouldn't be funny cuz I thought I would you know, like those things. crush your soul.

Just crush your and then no and you know, and it would just crush your soul and was no but the only person around was the guy you're still buddies with. Mhm. That at least could he could roommate Thomas. Love I love you Thomas.

So he could recognize it though. So mhm. And he was like and he helped me and he was the one who was like, "Hey, I'll stay late and I'll throw pitches to you to help you like with catching and stuff like that." And it was just it was it was hard because I think the guy the coach that was tough on me, he was a very like rootin' tootin' like men don't have feelings kind of like guy.

Like that's the how he presented himself. So, his coaching philosophy was like, "Oh, you dropped a ball? Cool, you have to do 15 push-ups." And then it would be like I dropped like 10 balls and then it would be like all practice would stop and I would have to do 150 push-ups as a skinny little freshman in full catching gear and I couldn't do it.

And then they'll be like, "No, we're just going to wait." And it was like, "Oh." Public shaming, yeah. Yeah, and it was I don't think it was like Again, again, it was I am not accusing this man.

Like I want it to be like I think my mental health struggles were my own and I do not think he was like one that was like really pushing me to be like I want to be very careful cuz I think he was I think he was a solid person. I think he's a good family man. Like I don't I want that to be taken very seriously. Um and I think the ACU baseball program is a great one and I look back on it with like a lot of fun memories.

I think it was just But it's a pivotal moment to figure out that you were different. Yeah. And then after that, finding music and then finding maybe a better outlet for some of those things. Yeah.

Made more sense. And I think that's what's so what's so funny is Cuz like a lot of the eccentric stuff that you're talking about is what makes you so like so like powerful in what you're doing now. Yeah. And I and I had to I just had to like I had to realize that was cool.

Like being a lot was cool and it was okay to be a lot. And it was okay to be whimsical and it was okay to be weird and it was okay to like Magic the Gathering and to be a nerd and to read comic books and to enjoy art and to cry whenever I watched The Perks of Being a Wallflower and to you know, think Dead Poets Society is one of the greatest movies of all time and watch Whiplash, which I don't know if you've seen the movie Whiplash. Watch Whiplash and be like, that's someone to aspire to. Like, I 100% would rather be dead at 30 and have people talking about me than live to 90 and have no one know who I am.

And um and I think that like baseball like I'm so thankful for that tough time because it taught me which is this is such a cliche, but it like helped me realize, oh okay, I can do these other things and I can be very successful and like one of my goals is for the band to get really, really big and then we go back to Abilene and then hopefully that coaching staff is still there and I'm like, free tickets to the whole team at this like 10,000 person concert if you want to come. Love it. Uh cuz that's and again, nothing against that coaching. Like, I think it was it was so many things were going wrong.

It was like I felt like I didn't have any friends. My roommate didn't really [expletive] with me cuz he was like on um he was on the pitching staff, but he hung out with like other he hung out with upperclassmen and I didn't hang out with upperclassmen. I wasn't doing well at baseball. Like I was iso yeah, I was lonely.

It was a lot like and then and then it was the occasional, you know, the coach, you know, the coach would just get mad and yell at me, right? And he was just being a coach. I don't think there was no maliciousness, but that's what it felt like was it was like, I'm alone and I'm being targeted. And um and so that's also what's super interesting is I'm kind of the only one in the band that like my demons are like in my head.

You know what I mean? Well, you're a you're a very, very deep thinker. Thank you. I mean, but most people like that are susceptible to that.

I mean, your greatest enemy is your own mind. Yes. That's I mean, I'm also I have I go to therapy all the time. Shout out Will, I love you.

He's my therapist. I've been seeing him for 5 years. Um it's [expletive] incredible. Everyone should go to therapy.

I think it's the best thing you can do for your life. Um but my greatest enemy, I mean, I'm anxious. Dude, like I will be on the road and I will like look out into the crowd and I'll accidentally like catch myself lingering too long on like um a girl with like big boobs or something like that. And then in my head I'm like, you just cheated on your wife.

And like that like because I'm so OCD hyper fixated on things and then I'm like, oh my god, I just like that like and then I spiral. And like I've gone through like the last year and a half of therapy has been like, how do I deal with How do I deal with that? How do I deal with like the fact that like I used to not be able to pick up knives because it would not that I've never like cut myself anything like that, but it would just be like if I like picked up a knife and I had the wrong thought, I could be like, oh, I could stab myself in like 30 different ways. And I think Luke Combs just got on a podcast which was super helpful for to me and he has OCD and he talked about this whole thing and I was like, oh, wow, I'm not alone in this.

Like Luke Combs is one of the biggest artists in the world. it and getting it out is like the most important thing in the world. Oh my god. When you're talking about the crying thing, I've gotten way more into that like uh just being willing to like just do it.

Yeah. I mean, it's just so woven in our culture. Obviously, you don't want to be out of control emotionally as a man, but there is something woven into our culture where it's just you're not supposed to cry, you're not supposed to share feelings or emotions. man.

That's why Oh, totally agree. That's why like 80% of the suicides are men. There was some other There was something I saw recently that it was like I don't even know if this is right. Micah, who is that Who is that guy?

It was a Justin Wilson. Black guy. He and he runs that karate group up in uh Detroit. He had some videos go viral cuz he like had a little kid.

Yes. Oh my god, I know exactly who you're talking about. go watch some of that guy's stuff. yeah, yeah.

Uh cuz I'm a heavy Christian and this dude comes out of like a Christian background or whatever, but he was he was talking about like how he like encourages a lot of guys to cry, but he was uh he was saying how uh it's like 98% of your tears are just like salt water, but then there's apparently like a percentage of your tears that it's actually like stress hormones that are being released. So, it's like that's why after you cry, there is like a sense of calm and peace. But, I mean there's guys that go through their whole life like they can't remember the last time they cried. Oh, dude.

I cried Dude, I saw I saw [expletive] I cried this morning. I saw a Tik Tok where it was like It was some like sappy emotional [expletive] that made me think of my wife, and then I like a little bit. Yeah. It's important.

It's I mean, and I think it's so much is you know, and like I also I work out regularly now. And I think that's super important. Like, you should do that. You should have good outlets.

You should not be on your Like, as someone who does social media for a living, you should not be on your [expletive] phone all the time. It's so bad for you. And I think that's And what's really interesting is Touch grass, bro. Touch grass.

Dude, get some turtle time. Turtle time. But, I think what's really interesting is when you're trying to write is being the drummer in a band. I sometimes will write something that James doesn't want to sing.

James is our singer, and that's his [expletive] right. Like, I'm not going to write a song My wife's name is Meadow. I'm not going to write a song like, "Meadow, your eyes are so green and pretty." or whatever, and then be like, "James, sing this [expletive] song."

Yeah, weird. Yeah, that's weird as [expletive] right? And so, a lot of like the stuff that I write about is very like "Oh, the demons are talking to me. I think I'm going to do it."

You know what I mean? And I sometimes have to figure out how do I accentuate that the best way that makes this a Dexter and the Moonrocks song. Not a not a not a Fox song, but it makes it a Dexter and the Moonrocks song that like the band feels comfortable performing. And I think that's very different because like that's got to be different from you because you could just be like, "Oh, I have this feeling.

I wrote the song. I'm Jared Morris of Jared Morris. I can sing this song, right? And I can't [expletive] sing.

Uh so I kind of have to think about that and what does that mean when I write stuff and how do I talk about like I we have a we have a song that we've kind of demoed um but the main chorus is um uh mama there's monsters under my bed and 20 years later they're trapped in my head. And um it's like that's a song that I'm super proud of. And it's how do we work that to be a Dexter and the Moon Rock song? Because I wrote it and it's very personal to me, but just because it's personal to me doesn't mean it connects with the rest of the band and it's a song they want to perform.

Sure. And that's something too that I have that like I have to look at and be like, "Okay, I have to take all of the ego out of that because A ego's the biggest killer of bands. I feel like I'm being like, "Well, I'm Creativity in general. Yeah, it's the bit and so it's like, "Yo, if y'all don't [expletive] with it, I don't give a [expletive] I'll write 10 more.

I we can table this conversation. I don't care." Um and so I just have to and something that I had to learn kind of early on is like I don't really take offense to that and it's like, "Okay, well, let's write another one. Or what does this look like?"

And um and I think the guys are all so nice and I think that's what makes us such a cool band is we all get to get together and we be like, "I have this song. Here's the 10% that I don't want changed. We can change 90% of the rest. What do you guys think?"

And they go, "Yeah, let's do it." You know? Like I wrote She Likes Girls. It was about an experience of someone breaking up with me and then um uh then aw cute dog.

Uh yeah, I wrote I wrote She Likes Girls and it was kind of just about an experience that I had and um and then it was like, "Okay." And then I kind of took to the guys and then James was like, "Oh, what if we added this, this, and this?" And I was like, "That's [expletive] awesome." And I think that's super cool.

And so I just have to be kind of cognizant of that when I'm like writing specific things. But if you're ever listening to a Dexter and the Moon Rocks song, and I think we wrote a song called Say I. Uh we didn't we wrote a song called Say I and one of the lyrics are, "It's getting bad again." Uh stripping meat from my skin.

And that was one that like I'd had for a minute and I was like, "Can we put this in there?" And they were like, "Fuck yeah." Yeah, but that's the collaborative part. Yeah.

And that's what makes the That's what makes the guys some of the best in the world cuz James is a huge like He's like, "I don't really give a [expletive] what the lyrics are. I just want it to sound cool. Like obviously I don't want the lyrics to suck. I just He's like, "I want the melody to be cool.

I want the instrumental to be cool and I would like to not say stuff that's weird." And I like stuff that I enjoy saying. And I'm like, "Yeah, absolutely." And so then I'll just read him like I've just got sheets and I'll just be like, "What about this?

What about this?" And he's like, "No. No. No.

No. Okay. No. No.

No." It's like, "All right, cool." And that's kind of how we do it. that, dude.

That's kind of how we do it and it's fun. Heck yeah, dude. Well, I appreciate your freaking openness. I think you're a fascinating person.

Thank you. I think you're like very, very special. Thank you. Yeah, don't let anybody ever tell you otherwise.

My mom tells me I'm special. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me and your mom. Yeah.

Uh dude, that's a good Childish Gambino song. Oh, really? Uh me and your momma. It's a phenomenal song.

It has a great drop. Is he talking trash to me? No. No.

See, I did it again. I just want you to know. Well, no, but actually you literally taking it helps the bit if you dive into it. See, well, It's It is a joke, but it's also something I'm opening a door like if you want to go there, we can go down there.

Cuz dude, that's the problem with my mind is like you'll That's what makes me really good at social media, I think, is like you could say you could say something about like I don't know, you could say something about the color blue. We could be talking about something blue and you could be like, "Oh, it's so funny that like the color blue looks like this." And I can go 10 steps further and I could be like, "Hey, that's actually a great idea. Did you know that the blue Power Ranger in uh the 2001 SPD Power Rangers, like the 12th season, did something funny like this?"

I can go find that clip on YouTube and take the same thing that you're thinking about and I can clip that together in a meme. And like that cuz like some people will come to me A beautiful mind. Yeah, dude. Some people will come to me and they'll be like, "How did you [expletive] Where did you find that [expletive] scene?"

And I'm like, "Oh, I just remembered it from a TV show I watched as a kid." And they're like, "Where the You just tick different, bro. You just got to do your Yeah. Yeah.

Different, like in a good way. Elijah's I love I love it, dude. I'm such a fan. I appreciate that.

already a fan of y'all, so this just like solidified it, made it so cool. like I talked a lot. I'm so sorry. point.

Are you kidding me? Better than me talking. Are you kidding me? I already got my name on it.

It's like shut up, bro. Oh, man. Yeah, well, thank you for doing this, man. Dude, this was a blast.

Yeah. Thank you, yeah, dude. I didn't let you smoke your whole cigar, but It's okay, man. I yapped a lot.

No, I mean, yeah, it's the whole point, man. And that's real, so. Yeah. Well, thank you for doing it.

Dude. Adios, amigos. Bye. Bye.

Bye, buddy. Bye. Hope you find your dad. Bye, buddy.

Wait for me. Wait for Sing to me. Melody. I to me.