Micky Braun

Full episode transcript, auto-generated from the audio and lightly formatted (verbatim, not edited).

I didn't even realize. I always like to see you know, some people drop it. Yeah. Some people lightly shut it.

Some people slam it. And I was always curious uh I just want a good snap. Yeah, sure. I was curious if it said something about people's personality.

can. But somebody told me that's like I there's like actually a specific way to shut it. You're supposed to like slam it shut. Oh, yeah.

Well, you know. So that you're supposed to you have to Where are the cameras at? That one that one's yours right there. Oh, that one over there?

You have to look deep. I used to mind it. Now it's on the wrong side. Deep into their eyes.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Jared Morris show. And I mean The Jared Morris vibe. I mean deep into their eyes. Yeah.

Ooh, brooding. Hey, let me get in there. As he whis- as he whispers, "Let me get in there." The Jared Morris vibe.

Season 2. Take one. See, I just get my guests to do all the work, right? So you have to hold that and your ashtray the whole time.

Okay, then. I That one's heavier. It would be better. It's weights it out.

So you're playing in Denton today. You don't have to hold that too. I am. No, I kind of like it though.

It's kind of fun. The Jared Morris show. Vibe. I don't know why Because vibe is kind of a dumb word.

not really. It's actually great because it's a different show. Oh, you think so? Yeah.

I've heard people like in Nashville and stuff have like gotten tired of the word vibe. Everybody says vibe now. This is the Jared Morris. This is the Jared Morris vibe.

Season 2. Take one. Are you going to send us a cease and desist if we use that a bunch? No, you can't.

You can do it all you want. I'm here for a reason. That's to be sued. I covered a Garth song recently and ruined it.

Made it like a punk version. And I'm hoping My hope is that I get a season. Uh Much Too Young. Oh, nice.

But we like sped it up and did like punk. I did Shameless. Oh, wow. I when I was like probably like 10, maybe 9 or 10.

We had the old video camera and Yeah. Yeah, it was What do you mean with the old video camera? Like you did a music video for we did we were singing over the top of Oh, we were lip syncing to it me and my brothers out in our yard. And I actually came across a version of it.

Really? And I was just like I don't know if I did You should put that out, bro. the doo-rag on and I was just It was pretty funny. A doo-rag?

Well, I called it a doo-rag. It's really just a handkerchief. Oh, like a bandana? Exactly.

Everybody always laughs at me when they say that. They're like, "You don't wear a doo-rag." I'm like, "Well, I mean, I wouldn't have known. a doo-rag, but I mean It's a scarf.

Pretty cool look. Well, at the time Yeah, dude. I was old. 10, 11.

Unfortunately, I'm still lip syncing in videos, you know. Yeah. Well, some people have to. Yeah, I'm one of those, for sure.

Tune it up, you know, I just can't. Yeah. What do you What do you The tuning thing has been interesting to me. When I listen back through y'all's entire catalog and stuff, it doesn't seem like that's been super present for y'all.

And like a production from a production standpoint on y'all's records, it's very raw, which I like. Mhm. But even when you started making records and through your whole career, there was obviously some like serious technological changes. And I'm curious how you What like how did you like stay true to just keeping it like raw and organic from like a recording standpoint?

Uh basically I just I try and write songs that are in a tune that I can sing at and but at the same time I write most of the tunes. So for me I just always kind of I don't know. I've always just kind of written the same kind of vibe and I've never really wanted to break away from that because I feel like once we had two or three records out we had established our sound and once that's established I didn't want to break away and like all of the sudden become a pop band or hip-hop thing or just wanted to make sure that stayed Nikki and Did you get influenced like that way? Like did you feel maybe from like industry or like the way maybe some other people were having some success with some sounds?

Did you feel a pressure to maybe go that way at times? It was kind of almost the opposite. Like the people that influenced me were never really made it to be big stars. Like you know, they was always you know Steve Earle and Robert Earle and other Earles.

But it was kind of that's the people that I was listening to when I was a kid that really kind of connected with the style of writing and the style of music that I wanted to put out. I really didn't care and I've never cared about being the big show and playing the stadiums and that stuff. I just always wanted to play the music that I wanted to play and I feel like we've stayed pretty true to that whole time and that's what I the main focus my entire career was to stay in the pocket of what we like to do and I just really enjoy playing that. So, for me it transitions over to a live performance really well to where, you know, if we were to do something different then I feel like we'd have to bring in all the different things that come along with a record and I want our records to sound like we sound on stage.

Yeah, for the record, too, when I said tuning and stuff, I don't use that [expletive] either. Oh, [expletive] joking. God damn. Yeah, I like never.

Just Just our records. Never done it. Yeah. I Yeah.

It feels like it's getting even more important than ever to not just because of a lot of technology now. Man, there's so much technology. It's really amazing what they can do. You can be as you can be as shitty as you want to be and they can make you sound like a champion.

Yeah, dude. Well, now you don't even have to it to be more organic and I like it to be what we actually sound like cuz if people don't like what we sound like on our records, they're not going to like what we sound like on stage. Sure. Well, you sound the same.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Am I Is this Is this better?

You might even Is there's a gate on that You did? Yeah, cool. It should be good. Yeah, the Is this better?

Yes. Yes, more. Or you can pull it closer if you want to. Well, you know, I like to pull it, but I do feel like I'm getting a little closer.

I have a problem. So, what was the connection to Texas? Was that like Did you come down here a lot or Um no, Texas actually Well, it kind of it started out I was in uh I was in Arizona. And I was not starting our band, but I was playing music down there and I was I was 17 when I moved down there and then when I was 18 I moved back down for another uh winter I was working for my brother on his ranch and uh ended up uh kind of setting up a studio in my little trailer that I had and I talked to my brothers and they were like, "Hey, we're down in Austin.

You should come down and visit." And I was like, "Yeah, I'll fly down." So, I flew down to visit them and the great part about it is I got down there and I was going for 7 days to hang out and I ended up staying for 3 weeks. And that was my first time to Austin.

And uh I just fell in love with the city. It was just incredible. When do you think that was? Like roughly what year?

Uh that would have been uh 2000. So, and that was the first time I went down there and um uh was just hanging out and got to meet a bunch of great musicians and great people and the food was awesome and just everything about it. I was a kid, so it was for me it was just sky's the limit. So, it was Idaho to Arizona?

I went from Idaho to Arizona, yeah. How long were you in Arizona? I did two winters down there, but the first year I was just down there working for my brother and then the second year I just I loved the weather and just the hang. Yeah.

So, I went back again the second year and I brought uh my best friend Gus who I was teaching how to play bass for the for the band and my uh original drummer Trav. And we went down there and we just were working on songs and having fun. And that was really when I was starting to hit my stride with writing is very early stage of writing, but we would just hang out at the house and play music, and we all had side jobs. I was I was working at a gas station, and Gus was working at a uh a Levi Outlet Mall joint, and uh Travis was just kind of being Travis.

I don't To be honest, he was just kind of bouncing around, and then I was also working over at the uh trail riding joint doing horse horsing around, if you will. Did you say oh, trail riding? Yeah, trail riding. Is that So, that's what your family did down there?

That's what my brother Gary had a He had a business down there he had bought into, and uh that's what he'd been doing for years, for about 4 or 5 years. Taking people out on trail rides? Yep. Where was that at?

That was in Cave Creek, Arizona. Yeah, just north of Scottsdale. Cool place, though, huh? It was awesome.

Yeah, yeah. Every time I go back, I'm I go up there, and I go every year for spring training. Okay. Baseball.

So, I always make a make a travel up there and go kind of see my old haunts and have a have a good time. But you But you had originally I guess I didn't know. We were kind of briefly talking about like you grew up kind of in cowboy Did y'all ranch? Uh we never ranched.

Like my family didn't ranch, but I worked for like all my friends were ranchers. So, my buddies were all uh always asking if like the everybody's always looking for a hand for you know, coming out in branding season comes around, and you can go make $13 and a baloney sandwich and that kind of a deal, so I did a lot of that, and then uh my buddy Ross uh he's the one that got me into saddle bronc riding. So, I started riding bucking horses. Like in high school or?

Yeah, I was 16 when I was doing that. That's when I started doing that. Did you rodeo all through high school? I Well, I wasn't in high school I was only in high school for that one year.

And then after high school, which I call it after high school. But, uh, I did rodeo quite a bit for another year and a half. But not in college? No, I didn't go to college.

I went to, uh, I went to CSI, uh, but I didn't actually go to college. I just took, uh, cabinet making class and rodeoed. Yeah. But that's where I went to, uh, Shawn Davis had a rodeo school there and, uh, he's one of the classic saddle bronc riders.

And, uh, so I took his class and I thought in my mind I was going to I was just going to cruise around the country and I was going to rodeo in the daytime and then play music at night time in the bars. That was That was my dream at the time. And then I figured out that I wasn't very good at saddle bronc riding. I was better at playing music.

So, I decided to put the other one away. Did you get hurt or anything? I did. Was that like what ended it or was it purely just I'm not great at this?

It wasn't really what ended it. I just honestly was not great at it. And I was I was good enough to get by, but I love saddle go to state, no big deal. Yeah, hell yeah, dude.

But, I, uh, I wasn't I wasn't great. I wasn't mediocre saddle bronc rider, so it wasn't, uh, it wasn't something I wish I wish I had, uh, come here, booger. I wish I had, uh, I love saddle bronc, dude. Yeah.

I love it. It's When it's done well, it is just the prettiest. It's a beautiful Yeah. beautiful thing.

I like bareback, but there's something just maybe a little too I'm pretty artsy-fartsy, so there's something a little too like just bare down and freaking just I don't know. It's like It's a little rough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got on one bareback horse and that was enough for me.

Oh, yeah. I got a lot of respect too, like when you wedge your hand in there and you I mean, you are you're wedged in there. It's not like you're like when you're saddle bronc riding, you're free to you're free to go whenever you whenever it happens. When you're on a bareback horse, you're lodged in there like a bastard, so.

Yeah, except for the stirrups, that can get pretty sketchy. Well, yeah, I did get hung up one time. Only once? Well, a couple times, but one time I did get hung up and went over the side and my left my left foot was hung in the stirrup and came down and my whole my face basically went down and the uh bronk came down, put his back hoof right into the right in the middle of my back and thank God I had a vest on and just I mean, smashed me into the ground and knocked me out, but popped both my boots off and the whole nine yards and I came up and I was I just sat up and then just fell down and I woke up and uh one there was one of the coaches was there and it he had ran out and grabbed me and I woke up and he was pushing my legs like this trying to get air back into my stomach, I guess.

Oh. You're like, "Stop." Yeah, no, I was exactly. I woke up and I was just like, "Ah, DUDE, WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW?"

I DON'T REALLY KNOW IF THERE'S any situation that a coach needs to be doing that. Yeah, exactly. It's shouldn't be. Yeah.

I'm glad he You It actually got the wind back? Yeah. Is that a thing? I've never heard of really is.

It's Moving doing it with your legs? Yeah. Oh, I've never It's weird anyway. But yeah, I woke up and uh and got up and they helped me out of the arena and then I had to get up the next day and go do it again and it was a it was definitely a chalk mark on the event for me was like, "Jesus, this is dangerous."

I'm interested musically about uh if you're coming out of that environment and that culture, you're into cowboy stuff. I mean, I'm sure you like a lot of old traditional country and things like that. Absolutely. But what was there a conscientious decision to not go that direction?

Um yeah, there definitely was. I just I finally was like I it's I grew up playing music, so it was more of an avenue for me to go make money and I wasn't going to go make money riding saddle bronc horses. That sure was not going to be a deal. Or I mean, like the whole idea where you're not going to just like do the cowboy the hat act thing and you play the old creamy cowboy stuff.

No, I just I still love the whole ranching atmosphere of life. I really do. I think it's a cool thing and you learn so much. You learn how to fix fence.

You learn It just You learn how to work. And that taught me a lot and for work ethic and I think that's helped me out a ton in the world of music because you show up on time, you do your job, and you get paid to do your job, and that is basically a cowboy lifestyle and that's what I have taken that into music. Mhm. Yeah, how about is it interesting to you nowadays to see how like everybody's in a cowboy hat and they're all pushing that type of thing and Yeah, I mean it's one of those things that like you know, I feel like I don't I don't really feel like that there's a problem with that because that's been going on forever.

Like everybody is it's a persona, it's a thing that if you're singing country music, you're wearing you should be wearing a cowboy hat, you know. And Did you have a lot of people like It's a dress. I mean obviously you've worn hats and stuff. But you've always had a little bit more of like a rock and roll edge to you in my opinion.

I don't know if that's accurate, but Yeah, but the cowboy thing to me with that whole deal is like I've known that from the Riders in the Sky back when I was a kid and like way back in the day like that it's a show. You're putting on a show and people want to see what they want to see. And if you're going to be singing country songs and cowboy songs and people want to see a cowboy, you know. That's just the way it is and I don't I don't care who you are and I don't really don't care about the fact that people do that, but I do feel like there's a lot of people out there that are just doing it because that's what people want to see and it's like I was would like to say, "Hey, can you saddle my horse?"

You know. Totally. Like there is something about that. Like I feel like if you do put on the hat then you should be able to at least be able to climb up on the pony.

Yeah, sure. Sure. Like saddle your own horse and ride it. Yeah.

But that's just a personal thing. Yeah, cuz I always like I'm How do you feel about it? Uh I mean I definitely like a certain level of authenticity for sure. for sure.

I had somebody recently though say uh the most authentic thing you can do is admit that you're really not that authentic. Yeah. Which there was a lot of truth there. I can uh Yeah.

You remember who said that, Micah? It was somebody recently said that to me. And uh yeah, cuz like all of us just have a certain amount of just [expletive] in us. Oh, absolutely.

You know. Yeah, there's like you think you're being so unique and authentic, but it's like why do you wear jeans? Yeah. We all wear jeans.

It's like you're not that hip. Yeah, exactly. Like we're all herd animals to a certain degree. So I like I take a certain level of I guess like I don't I don't get too hyped up about it.

If somebody's really like bumping their gums though and like going on about, you know, how cowboy they are. Yeah. It's like I had to learn that at a pretty early age um just because of where I grew up, you know. Yeah.

Uh like if you were going to rodeo. I mean and then it's just multi-generational massive ranches or world champion rodeo cowboys is like kind of what I was around and I and I wasn't raised with that. My family wasn't in it. So But you were around it.

Oh, for sure. But it took care It's like I, you know, I was like surfing and playing sports and just doing all that type of racing motocross. wear cowboy hats? No, not when I was young.

No, cuz I didn't, you know, I had no claim to. And then you would just really quickly just be like, "What are you doing?" Yeah. Like Yeah.

So it just took care of itself. Absolutely. And it wasn't until cuz my brother-in-law was a horseshoer and uh so it was like right after high school I started working for him. And he pretty He like in He's like my older brother basically.

Taught me how to saddle a horse, taught me how to swing a rope, taught me how to shoe horses. So it was like it all came from him, you know. Jesus. And then it wasn't until uh I started doing that.

Yeah, I mean I So I guess there was an element of like until I had Like if somebody called me out Yeah. I could at least like you know, had some level of understanding and could do something, right? I always joke I get the horseshoe or pass. Yeah.

You know. Well, that's the toughest job there is to be honest with you. Well. Like when we were on ranches when we were kids it was like that was the joke was if anybody asks if you can shoe a horse the answer is no.

Yeah. Even if even if the answer is yes. I still get people at shows that'll come up to me and they're like they're like I know you don't really shoe anymore but I mean I got a couple You're going yeah. Damn.

I mean at least lead off with like I really like your music. Yeah, right. Come on, dude. Hey, man.

Yeah. I got a handful of nails in it. Yeah, dude. But yeah, I mean so That is one of the toughest jobs out there.

Yeah. Without a doubt. I mean I've never been more just felt sorry for people shoeing horses in my life cuz we used to have you know, 60 head that guys would have to run through in like 4 days, you know, getting you know, 20 30 done a day as many as they can a day and just watching Justin that is that's no fun. At least now the prices have gotten where like I mean you make a good And I have heard that.

good living. But I mean yeah, you pay for it, you know, like But still I mean that job is that's hard on a body. For sure later in life. I mean I don't know any of them that are cuz like my brother-in-law's dad I learned from him a lot too and like he's in the shoeing Hall of Fame and uh he's uh Your brother-in-law?

His dad. Oh, his father. Okay. But like dude, we used to freaking do when I first started working for my brother-in-law.

Dude, I didn't even know how to put a halter on a horse. Yeah. Like we're talking like bare bones. How old?

Uh I would have been like 18, 17 18 something like that I think and uh yeah, and it's just interesting It's I actually have a lot of respect for people that are Uh, a lot of people that go through their life that like never try anything new, typically because of like fear of embarrassment. Sure. Uh, Yeah. fear of failure.

I have a lot of respect for people that just dive into something Yeah. uh, without knowing anything about it and just being like, "Hey, I'm an idiot. I don't know what I'm doing." Cuz it's embarrassing.

It really is. Especially in that culture cuz it's you know. Yeah. part, if you're just if you're forthright and you're like, "I don't know what I'm doing."

Yeah. Like you don't have to shame me. I'm not claiming to know anything. Most people are super helpful and That's the best way to go into any job.

I think so. Cuz you don't know what you're doing no matter what. I don't care how many books you read about it until you're in the in the meat of it. There's nothing No doubt someone's you're going to have to learn from some old boy that's giving you [expletive] on the sidelines, you know, like, "Nah, watch this.

Watch this. He's about to Watch this. He's about to get kicked. Watch this."

Yeah, you know, you just got to deal with it. I mean, there's a certain level of shame that you just it's necessary, you know. Absolutely. a great way to enter it cuz like ironically there was people that I ended up shoeing for that like you know, their parents are horse trainers and really fancy horses and they are like so handy.

Yeah. kids were and stuff. Yeah. But like you get them around some like young horses or even like starting a colt or something and they were like they always sent their colts off, you know, Sure.

to get started and they were like really handy once you like had a handle on one. Yeah. But so it was actually kind of interesting like I did it all backwards. Like I don't ride particularly well.

Yeah. Uh, but like starting a colt or something I feel really comfortable with. Yeah. but I started in like a weird way.

You must have a good thing with Well, I think it comes from the shoeing for sure. Yeah. You know, you're just in such squirrely situations on the ground that like it just gets you a pretty good read on it. Sure.

Especially starting where you just don't know anything. Yeah. And you're willing to listen to people too. No, absolutely.

I Like I said, I didn't I didn't get into same deal. I really didn't get into really being real hands-on with ponies until I was probably 17. I love them, dude. And but yeah, our a buddy of ours that was running the ranch with my brother, he bought a bunch of colts and we all got to pick a colt and go work him in the round corral and he took us to uh a couple of seminars and stuff for horse training and stuff.

who it was you went to? I should know the name, but it's it was the uh the original horse whisperer. Please tell me it's like Pat Parelli or something. I think it was.

No way. Yeah, and he did he had like the microphone on and he brought the colt out and did the whole thing and but like it taught me a lot just sitting there in the stands just like you're watching a movie like and it was really cool to see him uh work this colt from nothing to just had him in the hands. Yeah. The you know, by the by the end of the 2-hour seminar, he had a saddle on him and was riding him around and it was just like, holy [expletive] Yeah, there was a phase there where people got like some of that stuff can get a little hocus pocusy.

Like there's a time to you know, be stern with one. Sure, but there has to be some release. And dude, it teaches you a ton about yourself if you're willing to like when you're sitting there on one and it's fighting you and you just can't get it to do what you want it to do and you're getting mad. Mhm.

It's like being able to just sit there and go, okay. Like there's clearly something I'm not communicating properly. Exactly. And just whooping on this thing ain't going to That's not It's one thing if there's one that's like mean Yeah.

and you're like you got to exert some dominance, but then if it's just scared and don't know what you want from it. Yeah. I mean, getting aggressive with it and mad at it ain't going to do anything. So, you have to like means both don't know what you're doing.

That's a fact. Yeah, and being and being able to I mean, there's a lot of people that I'm guilty of it, too, but like a lot of people go through their life and never They're always pointing out at everything around them. They're like, "Well, they're wrong for that. They're wrong for that."

And like, you know, because of this as opposed to just sitting and be like, "Hold on." Yeah. There's clearly something I'm doing. There is something that's not going right for a reason.

A lot of times it can be as simple as take the spurs off. It could be as simple as loosen up the back cinch. It could be a lot of Get off of it and walk it around. Give it a rest, you know.

Yeah. I love them, dude. Yeah, I love them so much. I wish I had more time with them.

I do, too. I really do. I don't get to I don't get to work with horses at all. It's been 15, 20 years since I really got to like actually work with a horse.

So, you don't have What's your setup back at home? I live in Boston, Massachusetts. Oh, how did I miss that? No horses.

There's no horses around. up in Boston? My wife, Ali, and I got my daughter out there and we That's where we live. That's where she's from.

So, that's Woah. Yeah, I ended up My mom is from Massachusetts, ironically, and it's just an it's ironic thing, but What a wild combination of uh Yeah. I haven't spent like any time up there. Oh, you should come out sometime.

Come hang out. It's awesome. It's a It's a lot of fun. I'm like I'm probably 25, 30 minutes from Fenway Park on the on the train.

Drops me off right there at Yawkey Way and Do you have a Is that a Oh, that's a Dodgers hat. I was thinking It is a Dod- It's a Dodger hat. I thought it was a Field of Well, it's Brooklyn. Oh, that's a Brooklyn Dodgers, yeah.

That's a OG stuff. Yeah. Heck, when were the Dodgers in Brooklyn? How long ago was that?

I think they went to LA and I want to say 61. I want to say there. So that hat's from what? The 50s or something?

No, that hat's like a new one. It's just a new age. totally setting you up. It's a reprint.

Yeah, but come on. We got to develop like a great story about that hat. No, well, okay. This is my great-grandfather's floating down the river.

old Brooklyn Dodger Tom MCGILLICUDDY BROWN HERE. THE RIVER WAS asked over. Oh, you wouldn't believe the times that he had standing outside begging for coins so he could get into the old Brooklyn Dodger game. Yeah, no.

He still handily won the Yeah, and he but he kept it aside for me. He said to my mother, I like McGillicuddy. Yeah. That is great.

McGillicuddy is a great name. Oh, come on, bro. So what's the biggest difference between like Boston culture and the way people are in like Idaho? Um it's pretty night and day.

That's if you want just a direct answer to that. Everybody in Idaho is a lot more western. Yeah, a lot more laid-back as far as you get up in the morning and you got to go to work so you get up and you go to work, but your job takes all day long. And uh they do it at a pace that's a little bit more uh kind of like we were talking with horses.

You do it as it feels right, you know? And I feel back east, everybody gets up and they're like, "I need to get this done now. Let's go. Let's go.

Let's go." So it's just a faster moving pace back there with everyone. And the attitudes, in my opinion, are not any different. Like everyone says everyone back east is uptight and kind of [expletive] and it's not at all.

Like everybody is still got a great demeanor. They just they're just trying to get their [expletive] done and there's just so many people surrounding it that you have to No space. Move. Yeah, I got to go.

Move, you know, and that's just the way it is, you know, it's not a mean hearted thing. It's just the way it is. It's like let's get it done and back east or back west you have the space to you have to walk through the field and you have to there's a lot of other things that are going on. So I feel like they get a lot a lot of stuff done at the same time.

Uh but it just takes a lot longer cuz it's a lot bigger. Yeah. Yeah, so you I mean I think in any major city it would probably be the a similar energy just cuz you're all stacked in on top of Yeah. For the most part it is.

I definitely find myself getting a little more wound up when I when I do go back home to Idaho. I definitely feel like People are like Yeah, I'll honk at Yeah, I'll honk at people at the when the light's been green for 7 seconds, you know, and it's like that's just people. Dude, ironically People are like come on and then they're What's happening? I'm that guy.

You didn't have to honk at me, you know, and it's like well I drive like a grandpa, dude. Bad and I just don't pay attention. Yeah, well, then you're the guy I honk at. dude.

Then you see my stupid face and you're pissing you off more. You're like gosh, [expletive] guy. I get honked at the most ironically in Oklahoma. Yeah.

And my Oklahoma buddies tell me it probably is cuz I have Texas plates. I'm also not paying attention. I'm driving slow. Yeah.

And I have Texas plates. But I don't get honked at as much in Texas. Yeah. It's not a real I'm not going to lie to you.

It's not a very honk It's not a honky state. But as much honky talking as going on here. Yeah, there's a lot of honky talking but I think people are kind of worn out on it, you know? Yeah, no we It's funny years ago my buddy Jay Naz Jazz from Reckless Kelly we used to drive around and he's from back east and uh he would you know, he'd be he'd be get people in a nudge you know, and he would say he used to be like nobody honks out here.

Got to bring and he used to say to me he'd be like, we got to bring the honk back. Just a little like just I can't quite decide if there's a part of me that can appreciate just a good long extended honk. especially these days with people like you're on their phones so much that it's like, I'm sorry. I'm not going to sit here while you read a text message.

I also It's not that I want to fight you. I just I would like to proceed. Yeah. But I don't I also I don't understand the energy of like if you are the one that's in the wrong, somebody kind of toots at you a little bit and then you like flip them off.

Yeah. What? No. You were wrong.

No. He's just He's just saying, "Hey." Like I usually wave For me that's a sorry. My bad.

My bad. Exactly. Sorry, bud. I have like a deep fear too that sometimes my wave is not coming like I worry at times that they think I'm flipping them off.

Right. Like if what if they didn't see it? You really got to spread that Yeah. spread the hand the fingers out a lot.

I yeah, probably says way I have a yeah, I have a deep fear about a stranger that I don't know and I'll never see again misinterpreting me. Me hurting their feelings. That would be the worst. Why would I care about that?

You got to get to lose sleep at night. Laying there in bed shivering. I mean if I'm being honest with you, it's not that extreme but I would think about it as I continue to drive. I really hope that person didn't think I flipped them off.

Yeah. I haven't flipped somebody off in a long time. It's been a while. I can't even remember the last time for me, either.

But I've laughed at people definitely happened before. Yeah, for sure. But not very often for me. I'm usually the opposite, and I'm usually on your side of the deal going, "I'm sorry."

I'm so sorry. I don't know how to communicate. I'm sorry, but I'm sorry. I've had it where people are going at me like it.

You can see them cursing at me, and I'll just be like, "I know. I know." I'm I know it was me. It was me.

I'm really sorry. me. And then they don't know how to respond to it. It's like it pisses them off more.

You know what I do which really pisses people off, actually, other than flipping people off, which I do a lot, is the thumbs-up. Oh, just a solid Oh, dude. And it really makes people mad. Oh, yeah.

But I do it all the time. If you hit me with one, I'd be like, "That guy." Yeah. I'm not going to do it if I'm in the wrong, but if somebody else is in the wrong and they come around and instead of flipping my mouth, I just give them the old Great job, dude.

Nice job. Nice working. Nice working with you. Nice working with you.

Yeah. Just put them in their place. Yeah. Yeah, that's funny.

How do y'all end up handling touring, then? Do you fly in and then y'all link up or fly wherever I need to go. I usually I have a house in Austin still with my brother, uh Willie. So I can fly in there and then stay and then jump in the in the bus and hit the road, and we're gone.

Or if like last night, we were playing in Dallas, so I just flew straight into Dallas. Where'd y'all do play the Kessler? Where'd you Uh we were at uh the Toyota Center. Oh, Toyota call.

Yeah, big place. So we played there last night. And then um Yeah. Just whatever works out for me as far as if we're on the road, sometimes I've flown to Oklahoma City and rent a car and drive out to whatever town we're playing in or we'll fly into wherever, Wyoming, Denver.

Like I get as close as I possibly can to make it worth more time at home. Yeah. That's my That's my MO. Most of the guys are in Austin?

Are you I right? All the guys are in Austin, yeah. Well, actually not. Bill uh Corbin, he's in our bass player, he's in Fort Worth, yeah.

So, Yeah, I love Bill. Yeah, Bill's a great guy. It's been so much fun having him out with us. It's been a nice breath of fresh air having a new guy and he's now becoming not a new guy anymore.

He's been with us for over a year, so Mhm. but it's been fun. Mhm. You all just dropped a new record in June, right?

Yes. Yeah. June 10th. Still in my brain for some reason.

I don't know why. The date or the record? Date. Oh.

That's when we dropped it, June 10th. But anyway, Um yeah. It's been fun having a new record out and tour new songs and it's a it's kind of a hard place to be in for a band that's been together for almost 25 years to have a catalog that we have to now smash new stuff that we want to play and then old stuff that everyone wants to hear. It's like impossible.

It's Yeah, if you're not George Strait, you know, where you can just do medleys or Willie Nelson, you know, where you can just do a half of half of the song and the chorus and then go right into the next portion of it. It's tough cuz like I say, our crowds are not that size, so you're not going to get away with it. But, uh Oh, that's funny. It's a So, does it doing something like that you think kind of comes off a little weird or something?

I Yeah, I just feel like people want to hear the, you know, the whole thing and I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they would rather just us do some medleys here and there so they get to hear a piece Yeah, that way they can hear more of them. Yeah.

Yeah. That actually maybe would make sense. Yeah, I don't feel like it would Well, maybe I'll do it, okay? Fine.

Yeah. Well, Fine. This is All right, we're doing it. Yeah.

Yeah, I can It was It was a difficult sell, but It's the medley tour. He quickly crumbled. Just like that. Just He fell to pieces.

I don't think it would be weird based on like audience No, it might be kind of cool to do a little run of like a whole record where you could just bump I do I actually think it's the opposite. I think it's weirder for like the huge artists to do it. Yeah. You know?

Well, that's Yeah, I don't I don't know though. I think it's easier for them because it's like people want to hear every song and they've paid such a large amount of money and like they want to get X, Y, and Z. And I think with our shows they're just coming out to see us lay it down the way that we normally do and you get you get what you get. And I do my best to try and throw in, you know, as much of the favorites as I possibly can, but you know, some like last night we I had uh one tune that wasn't on there that we normally always do and it was Carolina Mornin' and sure as [expletive] Three people came up to me afterwards.

They were like, "Why didn't you play Carolina Mornin'?" What do you say? I said, "Well, I just I can't play it every single night. Like, you know, like but that's just the way it is, you know?

And like I don't really know. I'm sorry, basically. Like, come next time." Well, it'll be on there next time.

Trust me. It's usually always on there. I had it's not at all the same thing cuz the person was like requesting some random cover song or something. It was some lady screaming like Shania Twain or something.

And she was like right down on the side of the stage and I was like an opener, too. So, I was already just like getting crushed, you know. Right. And like I'm like kind of over towards her side of the stage and she goes, "Shania Twain."

She like had her back to the stage, too, and she like, "Shania Twain." You know. Right. And I just go, "No."

And she goes, "Why?" And I go, "I don't want to." And it was like And she was like, Cuz man, I feel like a woman. Yeah.

It's too on the head, you know. People are going to get the wrong idea. Yeah. No, it's that's so funny.

It's just weird. Yeah, no, cuz I don't want to. Like, you know. It's a jarring song.

It was the same deal. Like, yeah, Robert Earl one time said the same thing as like he like if he doesn't play The Road Goes on Forever, it's like the house starts on fire. And he's like, "Man, I just sometimes I just I don't feel like playing it, sir, you know? Like, I've read the book a billion times.

I'm tired of reading the book some nights, you know? I don't I understand it. But, you have to You do have to like And I don't feel like that's him fighting anything as far as the audience or anything like that. I just feel like some nights you want to take a break from it.

If you've been on doing a 14-15 day run and you want to take a night off from one song, I don't think that's an [expletive] thing to do. I think that's just being a person being like, "Ah." Switching it up a little bit. It's been a little interesting cuz I've only put out I just put out my third record.

And it's been a little interesting Like, I didn't put out my first record until 2019. Yeah. And uh And then like even getting my own studio and like self-producing stuff now and just like exploring sounds. And I've always written like my own songs and I like to co-write too or whatever, but it's always just been like a creative endeavor for me.

Yeah. Sometimes I write it in the studio, sometimes I'm just jamming with guys and we come up with a cool thing, but it's always just been like I just want to do stuff that I like and I think it's cool. Uh And it's been interesting now that like my first record there was like the biggest song on it kind of didn't even really belong with a lot of the other songs. It kind of had more of like a rock and roll thing to it.

And then now my new record is very rock and roll. And like I've had people like say like, "Oh, well, you know, I like I like your new stuff, but like don't change too much. Like I like your first stuff more." And I like I answered somebody the other day and I was just like, "Yeah, I mean, I still just like sit at my kitchen table and write them.

Like I don't it's not like I'm doing some crazy other process. Like I'm still just writing things that I hear in my head." Yeah. And ironically my new Yeah, it's not like I just had to write a blues record or something.

Yeah, but even if you did, it's like still you. Yeah. Like I don't know. I And I understand about it being like way too Yeah.

things being too out there, but ironically like my new stuff sounds more like my first biggest song. Yeah. Like the that one on that record didn't match up with the other ones I was doing, you know? And so like if anything I'm going back to Oh, I liked kind of that off that first record.

I want more of those, you know? Right. And it's just funny people's perception. It's like that's why I feel like you know, for me, obviously I'm telling you things you already know, but it's difficult to like to work through, you know?

Uh with just doing things that you want to do and not being too awfully worried about what people think about you. Yeah. You know, especially being the artistic type. Yeah.

Like you care and Yeah. It's fun. It's one of the reasons that I like to co-write with other people for their records cuz it gives me that I don't know if it's a artistic release to be able to go write for somebody else that is doing a different thing that I'm doing but I know that they're writing for their record and I know what their sound is. So I do get to do what you're talking about.

I do get to write a different genre of music and kind of get that release. But then it doesn't have to come out in our band because everyone's going to go, "What the hell? You guys are what are you doing there?" So for me it helps out a lot to do it with somebody else.

Let them take the music, let them do what they want with it. And I still get the gratification of that and at the same time I don't have to listen to the chirpings of, "You guys sound nothing like who you who whatever." But I also feel like, you know, as a artist and a writer you should be able to do whatever you want whenever you want. It's you can I don't care if you write books.

You can you can write a novel or you can write a you know, you can be Stephen King or you can you know, do whatever you want. I feel like you don't have to stick to the same script all the time. As serious as I take what I do, like I try my absolute hardest, right? Maximum effort.

But at the same time, like we're talking about like music and art. I don't like I just don't get that fired up about it. Like the idea that people get like angry about like, "Wow, that ain't country, man. That guy sucks."

Like I'm just like, "Dude, he's probably a cool guy. Like I'm not into the music but I'm not This isn't like a personal you know." Yeah. And it's country now, you like that it is country.

I'm sorry. I hate to tell you that, but I agree with you. It's not Yeah, there's people doing some really important stuff in there. Yeah, it's not old school country, but Yeah.

It's still country, totally. So, I don't know. This Once the curtain gets pulled back from like on how music is actually made, Yeah. uh from I think most people would be surprised in the studio how many references get thrown out and like oh that kind of has like a thing like this.

Like oh my gosh, what about that? Right. And then when it comes out, people are like they want to identify it as this very specific genre thing. But if they knew some of the references and uh influences that were brought up like in the recording process, they'd probably be shocked.

Yeah. Like really, that came from there? Yeah. How'd you get that sound?

But I guess it's probably always been like that. The artist is responsible to just like deliver it in a way that is understandable. Yeah. Without it being too uh out there.

Yeah. I'd say so. Maybe. Maybe.

It's like a never-never-ending journey for me. I love it so much. It's so fun, but uh yeah, the marketing end of a lot of this stuff and the early on too, I didn't I didn't have any outlets to let like some of those creative juices out. I was just such a lone wolf.

I was just on my own. Right. It's like if I was going to put anything out, it had to be just me. I didn't know anybody and it was It's been nice now like co-writing and being able to It's been way easier.

Like what you're talking about to just put songs aside like oh no, I'll just do that with that person. Like I don't What do you do with co-writing? Do you as far as that goes when you when you go in, do you like go in with a couple ideas or do you do you have some things linked up in line or do you just or do you just fall on the sword. Ah, um I try to be prepared for every uh um thing that could be thrown my way.

So, like cuz I don't I guess it depends on if you if you've like written with the person before and you kind of know their strengths or weaknesses already. Yeah. I'm just willing to if somebody's got like a maybe a pretty big ego or I don't even want to say ego. Maybe they're just really great and they could probably get this thing just pushed on their own and they're okay doing that.

Like I'm okay with like being fly on the wall and sitting back and just supporting if they get hung up on something. It's like, "Hey, maybe we could go here." And if they're just like, "No, no, I don't like that." Okay, I'll just wait for my next time to throw something out there.

Sure. I mean, I try to be just prepared for the moment. So, I just like lyrical ideas, title ideas, melodic ideas, chord ideas, and just be prepared for any kind of thing that might be. And then often times it ends up just being like none of that even works and so you are just falling on the sword.

Sure. So, I think I don't know. You get humbled enough uh to where you try to be prepared. It's almost like the preparation and just doing it enough Yeah.

kind of just prepares you for the moment rather than like walking in with just the idea. Like, "Hey, I was thinking that Yeah, yeah. This is good. to write this one today."

That doesn't really resonate with me often times. That's definitely the Nashville way of doing it. Yeah. I always try and go in with a couple of semi already written songs so you don't just go in and stare at each other in the eyes for 2 hours and then go, "Well, well."

Oh, well, yeah. You know, and sometimes that works. Sometimes you end up with a song that's that you haven't thought of and you get the push back and forth with you get the personality and it's more of the people, but I particularly have the song ideas in mind for guys and girls that I like to write with and I will take that and when I start the song and I get hung up on it I go I need to bring this to Eady or I need to bring it to Jamie Lynn or I need to bring it to somebody, you know, I always have people in mind that I can I can definitely fall back on that I think will have the right same mindset on the song. But a lot of times you bring that to the table and then it doesn't go anywhere.

But for the most part I feel like it usually hits and resonates to where you can Yeah, I figured out pretty quick in most of the writing sessions I was in like most everybody's sitting on a bunch of ideas and songs and stuff that they're like not willing to give up almost and I Oh, it's the worst. Yeah, and so like kind of just I guess like I was and especially cuz I'm just kind of like the new young guy like I don't really have a ton of ground to stand on so like I'm not going to walk in and expect somebody to just give me their whatever they think is their greatest idea. So I just try to come in like I'm just giving my best stuff that I have like right then and if it's like pretty much done, you know, and they're just like man that thing's pretty done and I'm like yeah, but I want like yeah, I want more. I want you to you know, on it and that usually helps like I'm not there to like um you know, keep something for myself that does that seems like a horribly a horrible way to start a collaborative endeavor to be like holding back.

Yeah, no, I feel the same way. I've done that a bunch. I've had it like down to the last I need one more verse and it's just it's right there but I need somebody to turn the knob for me and get my direction going somewhere else and encourage me listen to my you know, what I have and then, you know, they can go, oh, you well, we can go this way and it turns my brain to a different spot, which I think is really helpful in co-writing and I feel like that's why I co-write a lot cuz I get I get to a place and if I don't like it, I don't like it, you know, but that doesn't mean that we won't finish that song the way that they wanted it to be finished. They you can go record it, but I still might change that whole verse at the very end of it and I'll still give you your co-write on it, but I'm like that wasn't the direction that I was going.

Or the amount of times that maybe there's that like one-off little phrase in the second verse that it's like maybe the song you guys actually did or finished or didn't finish was just not that great, but that one-off line is like, oh, that's dope. Yeah. What if we just like let's just freaking throw that thing in the trash can, run over here and do this one. Yeah.

Like being humbled enough times with that where it's like the thing that you think you're trying to go for like if you're just willing to let the music kind of meander and take you somewhere else, you're willing to go there. Sometimes it ends up in a really cool place. Yeah. And you know, like, oh [expletive] I had no idea that was even an option.

Yes, absolutely. And I've had that happen before, too, where I've been writing about a love song that turns into a absolute killing song, you know. Yeah. Yeah, there you go.

Let's go the other way and it does open your mind a lot and I find that writing with women a lot, they have such a different perspective on life in general. It really opens up a lot of my brain cells in the world of, oh, I didn't think about it that way. But, the way that they hear what you brought to them is a completely different thing than what you were initially feeling or hearing, and then you go, wow, that's much smarter. Man, I've been in some sessions now where um I'm definitely over the whole like let five people in a room thing.

It's just like too much going on, but No, thank you. in some of those scenarios, like I've been in one where there was two girls, and they were and there was three other guys other than me. And I'm a pretty big personality. Uh but like to watch and those girl these girls were so good, like melodically and lyrically, they were so good.

But, they were I mean, they're in a room of four other dudes, and then these guys are just like banging on their guitars, Yeah. and just like singing at full voice, and just like just banging through like just trying to come up with melodies and just so like unaware of And I'm not saying I'm like freaking like I was, you know, some God's gift to songwriting that day or whatever, but I at least was sitting back just going like, man, we are like crushing these girls' spirit right now. Like they couldn't get anything out. Sure.

They just kind of sort of be halfway singing something. Yeah. And like some guy would just come in, "Well, no, what about that? Yeah, yeah.

just like, bro, did you even listen to what she just did? So, like at one point I just had to be like, hold on, hold on, hold on. What were you singing over there? Like just sing just hold on.

Just like everybody chill. Like would you sing that, you know? And she like comes up with this melody, and then the other girl kind of jogs off of her, and they like come up with the whole verse and everything, and it was just beautiful, amazing. Right.

Yeah. And uh and I was like it was like disappointing a little bit cuz uh you know, they were just And so I like empathized with girls in that situation cuz it's like their voices weren't as loud, they weren't as gregarious. So, it's like their ideas were just going to get crushed. And I hate that in like a creative environment where it's just the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I do too. And I also I also hate it when people get stuck on something and they won't let it go. And it's just like, "No, that's I'm sorry, it's a horrible line." It's not a horrible line as much as it is it's just is this is not working for this particular song.

So, let's put keep that in your book on your laptop for most people these days and move on. Like, let's Can we just get past that? Like, that is not working and you have to like we only have so much time in a songwriting session and I've been fortunate enough to write with most of people that I write with are my best friends. So, like You can be real direct with them.

Yeah, I can be as direct as I want. They can be direct with me and like, "Nope." Trash can, you know? And I still write it down and I put a note next to it, you know?

Good line, other song, you know? But, it's one of those things that for me with my friends that I write with they usually come we usually go and stay together like for two or three days or they come to the house and stay the whole night. So, you have all night to keep bouncing different things around and you go to two or three different songs and you can come back and forth and that I feel like works out really well cuz you're not in a you're not in a songwriting studio in Nashville that you have from 2 to 6 to write to write this song and then we'll all email each other back and forth. It's like, I like writing face-to-face.

I'm not I don't really do good with the email stuff. It has not been a pan out situation for me. Interesting. But there's parts of me that likes it more because to be the to go spend your own time with it yourself.

Yeah, but only cuz like in the code writing thing sometimes, I hate the performative element of it. Yeah. That's an aspect of like Sure. what will happen when the when the creativity is done.

Absolutely. Like performing it. Absolutely. But in the moment like I don't like to feel like I have to sell it.

Yeah. You know what I I do know what you mean. Yeah. I And like even when I present an idea to like when I go in and I don't really know somebody that well, I'll just be like, all right, I'm being 100% honest with you.

If you don't like an idea, just say, I don't like it. Yeah. Or just try to find some little thing in it that you do like and then we can go from there. But like don't be afraid to just don't you don't worry about just being like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Don't worry about taking care of my like Yeah, there's a there's a very good line between saying I like this part about it. Yeah. I hate this part about it.

Right. You know, it's like that's where I don't want it to go and it that's where it's it seems like that's where it's leading to and I don't want to like go into that and waste our time because it's not going anywhere. So all like when I'm presenting ideas or whatever, like I'll just I'll like close my eyes and just like I'll like say li- or I'll just like say lines and just be like, all right, this. Just like tell me just holler at me if you like any of these, you know.

Right. If you don't say anything it means you don't like it. That's we'll just move on, you know. And I'll just close my eyes or like sing something and just like keep going through stuff.

And rather than like constantly checking in like Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I don't like to even I don't want to like even sing for the person really. Just kind of mumble the melody a little bit.

Like, do you like I it's I don't want it my performance to sell it. Right. Which has I've noticed at times, you know. Yeah.

You know, you'll start this song and somebody just has an amazing voice and like they could sing the phone book and it'd be great. Yeah. Yeah, right. Absolutely.

And I'm I'll even just be like, "Hey, you like just chill. Like let's think about this melody. Is that really what we want to do?" Yeah.

You know? Yeah. Is it actually that good or are you just awesome? yeah.

Which I might even be nice. It actually works out for me cuz I'm not that great, so Yeah. I can't do that. So it kind of has to make me be a little bit more thoughtful maybe.

yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'd love to be the What a burden to the fly on the wall in the day that Lord, I love that woman wearing Right. tight-fitting jeans. Like, "What?

How did that become a It's because it's the singer. True. like But man, the simplicity. Dude, I always come back to Mel.

I always come back to Mel McDaniel. Yeah. Uh Down on the corner Yeah, I know. by the traffic light I can Bro.

It's so easy to I just want to be Yeah, there's times I want to be able to write that simplistic. Yeah. No, there is there's a lot of simplicity that goes into tunes that uh I don't think people really uh understand. Like it's like, "Well, it's just like stream of consciousness a lot of times, you know?"

And sometimes it hits and sometimes it doesn't, you know? You can't be For me, you can't be too bang, you know? I got up this morning and put on my pants and walked down to the You know, but sometimes woke up this morning Yeah, right. Right.

It's like that stuff really works a lot of times and I also feel like there's so many billions of songs out there that it's hard as a songwriter to not fall into your own mind into the trap of am I ripping this off from somebody else? You know, or you know, I've done it thousands of times where I've been like, "God, did I just rip off this whole song from something else?" But then I have to like go through my own personal catalog in my brain of did I just steal this whole idea and song from somebody else? And then you're like, "Well, well, so did everybody else, you know?"

Like, I'm just I'm just putting that on paper in a different way, you know? So, I don't know. It's a it's a hard place to fall when you're wanting to get a good song and not take a line that not necessarily that you're stealing, but you've rearranged in some format, you know? And I think that's a huge part of songwriting is not trying to be too over creative, cuz you get too over creative and all of the sudden it's just a jumbled bunch of words that everyone doesn't really know what the hell is going on at the end of it.

It's just got a great melody with a great singer. So, I co-writing helps me. Exactly. It definitely It gives me confidence, too.

If something is like really simplistic Mhm. when you're like alone, sometimes you'll be like, "Well, I mean, is it too simple?" Mhm. When I first started, there was even there was people that would like they would do the I'd show them something and they'd be like, "Well, I mean, it's catchy."

And for the longest time I was like, "Wait, what?" "Cool. LET'S DO THAT." YEAH.

I NEVER ALL RIGHT, THEN WE GOT IT. a negative thing. Well, I like the hook line. Yeah.

But Yeah. I'm like Well, I mean Yeah. I like to sing it. It's memorable.

No, there is there is a lot of it I have done some co-writing same deal where I'm just like same deal. I'm just like You're just now you're just trying to change it to make it yours, but at the end of the day it's just coming back to what I already had. You're just changing them to the, you know, or it to its and just that little tiny stuff that you're just like you're getting the co-write. Can we move on?

Like you don't have to nitpick all of the little tiny things. We'll do that after. Like I will when I'm done with the song I will go back and re- you re- do the whole thing. You change a lot of little tiny little things that Some people don't though.

No, some people don't. Some people will just continue on with what they have and that's fine. And I've done that before and I've done it a lot. And I found myself over the years changing the lyrics to the songs that have already been recorded on records and the whole deal and I've had it's not like a drastic change, but like every record that I have there is at least one or two songs that I've changed lyrics on when I sing them live.

Yeah. And or re- you re-recorded them at a on a live record or something like that and everyone's like, "Oh, why did you sing that one different than you did the first time?" It's like cuz I felt like after I went back and listened to it and sang it a thousand times I thought it was a shitty line. So, I changed it.

Yeah, it's been one of the I wouldn't say problems. It's been it's been it's been something that I've noticed with a lot of like producers and engineers. Most of them are like drummers, bass players, those types, you know. Mhm.

So, like in terms of putting a track together and getting the a groove, for sure. They're like really great at that element of it, but most of them admittedly will be like, "Oh, well, I'm not really a lyrics guy." Or like and most of them aren't singers. A lot of them I'm just I'm generalizing, of course, but Sure.

Um and so I've noticed in the studio a lot of times, like if the songwriter or the performer isn't um maybe if they don't have that like extreme attention to detail, Mhm. there'll be like lyrical stuff and vocal stuff that I'm like, "How are we like just not paying attention to that right now?" Cuz the producer is like, "Sounds great." Yeah.

Sounds great to me. And I'm like, "Yeah, but you admittedly like Sounds good in here. Yeah, you don't you just admitted you don't even listen to lyrics. So and you're not like a vocalist, so you don't know even how to maybe push somebody in a direction or like encourage them.

Like, "I think you can nail this a little better. Are you really wanting to say this here? This is hitting me weird." Absolutely.

Um and there's just been environments that I've been in where I'm like, You spend two days getting the track put together and then it's like, Ready to vocals? And it's just like, "Oh, oh, okay. Yeah, okay." And then just like throw them in there and he's not warmed up and then he gets like three passes at it.

He just ate a slice of pizza. Yeah. And they're like, "Sounds great." Yeah.

And I'll just drink a a gallon of chocolate milk. Yeah. Yeah. No, it is it's weird when but I think that's a very important as to what you're talking about, too, is to make sure you when you are going in the studio that you are prepared.

You have That's what your producer That's his job and his job is to make sure that X, Y, and Z is ready to go. And then it doesn't necessarily have to be 100% nailed down on a lot of stuff, but you got to have the producer should have his eye on the what they want to hear, the tones they want to hear from guitars, the tones they want to hear from the snare drum, the tones they want to hear from the bass, that like the vibe that you're going for is very important. And so, I do feel like when you are working with somebody that is more of a Sounds good. Like that.

Nailed it. It's just like You just Let me just write you a check. You got a part. Yeah, are you sure?

I mean, honestly, can I take you home? I got Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Hey, well, what are you doing later? Yeah. I don't need you here in the studio. Yeah, I don't need you here to Yeah, to pump up my ego.

I want you here to do your job, which is make sure you get the best sound out of the musicians that are in the room, and that is a huge thing. But, uh some of them I think maybe like have some PTSD from some like front guys or singers that are like not open to criticism at all. Well, that's true, too. I could see that.

So, I am Yeah, I'm opposite. I'm an open book. As soon as somebody tells me that like producer-wise, if they say, "I don't I don't really like the way that song is like going as far as this verse or we need an extra verse or we need you know, I think we should take this verse out completely and add just another chord put the chords in here." And like you have to be open-minded in my particular where did you get that?

The openness for that. I don't know, to be honest with you. I um I guess I don't know. Maybe it's just my demeanor, but it's also probably from learning as a from a child playing music my whole life, always being told that could be better if we did this or maybe try that and maybe we end up going back to my original stuff like but just I've always been told let's give it a shot and if you have an open mind to give it a shot without putting up the fisticuffs on it and sometimes you have to go back to it.

Sometimes you do. Sometimes you have to go back and be like no I like it better this way but that doesn't mean that you can't cut it A and B and go well let's see which one sounds better. And then everybody sits down and you all listen to it and sometimes the producer goes you know what you are right it sounds much better this way. Dude there's environments that I've been in where we spend more time talking about why we shouldn't try to do something.

Yeah. That's isn't that fun? Watching the money clock go the idea like it was literally just go to the ride instead like we could have just tried it. Yeah a sizzle would have been just fine.

Holy cow. If we don't like it just don't do it. Dag on we just spent 30 minutes talking about why we didn't Yeah. Why don't we?

Well we could. Well but if what if cuz I'm thinking Well yeah that's like the first that's like my first you know what I'm kind of thinking is Yeah. It's like yeah well if you're thinking it let's do it. Just do it.

Yeah I'm going to get in here let's get it done. It's and I don't care what that is. I could be doing that in a my day-to-day life is like that. Same deal.

It's like well I was thinking about maybe putting paprika in the just splash some paprika in just do it. I don't I don't know how the paprika is going to react to the onion. I have no idea. It might suck just like this verse.

But like but if I just taste the paprika on its own I'll be like what I mean I like paprika but I don't know what it's going to taste like in that thing I got already going. Yeah. I kind of wish I would have used cayenne pepper. Yeah, shoot.

I guess that is the difference between cooking. The stakes are way higher with cooking so. You just ruined the whole dish. You truly can't go back.

You got to start over. Yeah, no it's a redo. I guess it would be like that would be like recording tape or something. add more.

It can be an add more. Oh, true. Oh, dude that's a hot take cuz Yeah, no honestly it didn't take over. For music though like there's when you go back and like honestly listen to some older records just massive smash hits.

And like if you really start analyzing them you'll just be like holy cow. Like they it's all tambourine pan to the left and it's so loud. Yeah. And you're like I never really noticed how much freaking tambourine was in this or whatever it is.

You'll just find these weird things that you're like dang. Yeah. Where it would be like the question probably was like you think we should add tambo? Yeah.

And then somebody's like we need to add more like way more tambo. It needs to be the loudest thing in the mix. Yeah and it's like it's the same with like people like uh I don't think we need tambourine on every single song and it's like have you ever listened to a hit song? Right.

They all have tambourine on them at some point. That's a fact. And it's a fact Jack. I mean I hate to say it.

It does something to a scenario too. It just There's a and there's just a lot of There's a lot of tasteful ways of adding it to where it's just background keeping that rhythm going you know. It's the percussion of a record in a song to me is like uh it's a very uh huge part. I think it's one of the most important things.

It's like everyone's like I want it to be dry. I want it to be you know I want it to be live and I like the live cuts. Like, let's all record live. We'll get the live cut.

I'm all about that, cuz I want it to be organic in that way. But, I also don't want the drummer to be smoking a cigarette, playing drums, and shaking a tambourine at the same time. That's not going to happen and get the right cut. So, can we Can we all agree here that we're going to take a How do you explain to like a new drummer in the studio how to approach uh a like groove in like a drum track.

So, like, how do you explain to them the idea of like you don't have to do all of this in one take and getting them to like compartmentalize certain aspects of the groove and approach it differently and like in a recording way? In a In a recording way, um Like, how would you How would you approach like a new to the producer. If only it were that easy. If it was that easy.

But, no, I actually I will talk to the producer or the drummer. Uh Bobby is really open-minded, and he's great about just, you know, going with the flow if whatever. But, the main thing is we want meat and potatoes. That's what we want.

Cuz we're trying to get bass, drums, and then whatever guitar tracks we can keep and have it have that organic, nice live feel, but then we're going to stack and stack and stack other percussion elements and But, as far as the drummer goes, yeah, it's like, man, basically need you to be your timing has got to be on point, but you know, like I say, a lot of times it does come down to our producer just saying, "Hey, I during this second time around, I want this fill to be like this. You're a little too busy, or you're a little not busy enough." And um you know, I hear that stuff and I talk to our producer about it and I say, "Hey man, I really want to I want this to be a little bit more you know, in the pocket as opposed to sloppy and sometimes I'm the opposite. I want this to be more sloppy.

There is no pleasing me. There is no, there is no pleasing me, sir. But yeah, sometimes, you know, I want I really do. I want to hear like and then it also comes down to like snare sounds and kick drum sounds.

Like you know, I want the kicks to be the kicks to be I've always loved Y'alls drums. Man, it's I swear it's been like one Like tones and my favorite things about our band is like everybody that we've worked with and all of our drummers have been so good about like letting like we had John Chipman come in a couple times and just tune the drums because we like the way he gets his tone, you know? Wow. And How would you describe a hard thing to tell your drummer like, "Hey, I got another guy coming in to tune your drums."

And then they come in and they sit down and they're like, "Holy [expletive] this sounds amazing." You know? Yeah. But like our drummer now has been with us so long that he knows he knows what the tone is that we're looking for.

But I would say the only thing that is outside of that would be snare drum and symbols and you know, hi-hat and like as far as just complete like timbers is basically what you have to really focus on when you're listening back. Do you want that or do you want the you know, it's it really it kind of goes song to song and that's what breaks down a record when you're trying to get it, but you also have to have it sound complete for the whole record. It can't sound like you're playing a different drum set every single song. So, it's kind of cool.

I don't know. It's a process that I really enjoy. Yeah, some people hate it though. Oh, most people hate it.

Like, I don't go in when they're when they're doing drum sounds. Like, I don't I don't do it. I'm just like, "Hey, let me know when you're ready for ready for me to come in." And then, once we start going, push red.

That's a tough one, too. I understand like going for some basic tones, but again, like you don't know how the paprika is going to taste until it's like actually in the in the stew. So, like how is that snare actually going to sit with the vocals or the guitars? Like, you don't know until everybody really starts playing together.

So, Exactly, right. Yeah, you never know. And it's also the same with like drums and bass or they are you know, brother and sister. They got to They got to be same deal.

Like, the bass tone might not be working with the kick drum now. So, then you got to switch out the bass and get a different Just the whole thing about it is it's such a process. And I don't like the technical part of it. The sound part of it I love.

I love being involved in Nope, I don't like that as much as I liked that, you know? But, I don't like the standing around talking about the AM 57 that we're going to use and or maybe we should try a 6640. And I can appreciate that it's necessary. Yeah, I do not like it cuz I don't have that thing to me.

Yeah, it's not fun. I can appreciate it's necessary though. No, it is. It's very necessary.

If you don't do it, you're not going to get the correct sound that you like, you know? But, I have a people that are able to Like, not to name drop, but Oddly Free, uh he texted me, was listening to our record. I sent him a record and he played on uh our whole last record. And uh he was like he goes, "Hey, I listened to your new record."

And he was like, "What amp were you using and what mic were you using?" And I was like, "I'm going to have to get back to you on that cuz that was that was Dave Bader, our producer." I was like, "I'll have to get to with him and find out cuz but he's Sheryl Crow's guitar player. I mean, and he's badass as he can get, you know?

And for him to actually be hearing something out of that record and go, What? What is what's that? Cuz he produces a lot of stuff, too, you know? But he wanted to know what that was.

And I thought that was really cool that his ear caught exactly what it was on one song. Do you think um years ago, maybe like '80s, '70s, do you think the average listener in the public cared more about some of that stuff than they do now? As far as like Just bands, production, the gear hear some older people always talk about. It's like they're always so jazzed about talking about like they'll know like guitar players that played in this band and like they went over here and they recorded at this studio and Yeah.

But it seems like nowadays that's maybe not as prevalent. I think it might be even as simple as like liner notes and on the records. that the Yeah, absolutely. I think that it's uh it's disappearing rapidly and has been for years and it's kind of like to me, I'm still the I want the record so I can like first thing I do is I put the record on and I immediately open it up and I start reading who the musicians are.

And nine times out of 10 I'm like, "Oh, bad ass." You know, like so-and-so played on this or so-and-so sang on this or, you know, like I feel like that has disappeared almost completely at this point. I think it's non-existent. Like and I feel like it's too bad too for the great studio musicians that are out there that are putting down most of the tracks in LA, Nashville, wherever they're doing it.

I feel like they're doing their work and the people are still getting their sounds, but they don't even know who the hell it is and I feel like it's sad cuz it's such an art form and you handpick these people for this particular project or this particular song or it, you know, like we get Buck Owens to play accordion on one song, you know, and it's like he's a one of the best there is out there and like people don't even know or even take the time to figure out who was playing you know, accordion on it. We always have Mickey Raphael play harmonica on our records. And same deal. It's like you know Mickey if I mean, you really don't have to look at the liners to know it's Mickey, but at the same time I think it's one of those things I don't think people are spending the time that they No, not at all.

Like if it's not on a Willie Nelson record, you're not, you know, you're not recognizing that and his style is just, dude, a style of its own, you know, and that's, you know, that's why that's why we got him in, you know, cuz that's the sound that I want. If it helps you at all, there's, you know, I like to think I'm in a group that is trying to extend some old traditions and give a [expletive] about cutting records and being a good musician, the best that you can be, you know. Trying to do it at like a high level is cool, but also just like really caring about like the actual art form is very important to me. Sure.

If big success comes of it, cool. I heard I heard somebody uh It was an actor. Man, it might have been Bradley Cooper. I heard it like somebody was asking like, "How do you uh like keep the fire, I guess the confidence to keep going?"

And he was like, "When I first started, I had to shake hands with my 60-year-old self teaching an acting class in a at a high school. Like I had to shake hands with that person when I first started. Mhm. Basically like accepting the idea that if I never receive like mainstream success, don't get to where maybe I want to be, am I still going to be okay with it and happy with it and content with it?

And that really resonated with me. No, that's yeah, it's a great way of thinking about it. I mean, you're the mind aspect is right there in the world of like I started at such a young age playing music myself, but like the first band that I went and saw was the Everly Brothers. And then it was Willie Nelson and that was like the first two major bands that I saw.

But for the most part, in between it was my dad's uh friends' bands and my dad and his brothers and like everybody jamming in the living room and things like that, but like that was I guess my version of falling in love with the product that I wanted to see and being able to live that out. Yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't turn it around and be like, "Oh god, I never be I never became the big superstar." I'd still just love really enjoy playing the music that we play. Hell yeah.

So, that's the way that I look at it. Same here. As far as I'm no Bradley Cooper, but You kind of have a little You guys kind of look similar. Oh, yeah.

I think. You know, I get that all the time. 100% Me and Tom Cruise. All right, dude.

Well, we got to get you to a show. You're playing over in Denton, so I'm going to come over there and watch y'all, too. Awesome, man. But, thanks for doing this, man.

Well, thank you for having me in here. This is a cool little joint, man. Thanks. I hope we Maybe we'll do it again.

Yeah, we'll ride some broncs next time. Yeah, well, get them Get them saddled. Yeah, we'll hop on that one together. Yeah.

Yeah. What am I Dale Brisby? Okay, you mind taking a couple minutes just to If you have anything that you want to promote Oh, yeah. If you want to plug anything.

I don't. The festy or We're talking about the Bron Brothers. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

Yeah, sure can. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Y'all been doing that for a quite a while now. Bron Brothers? Yeah, it's over 40 years. So, it's been going on My dad started it with his with his brothers.

And so, it's been going on for quite some time. But, uh anyway, it's been out in uh Me and my brothers took over probably about 15 years ago, and we've been bringing all of our friends out. We started out the first year that we moved it to Challis, Dad was like, "Oh He always had like his friends come and play Pin O Ben and Headwaters and bands like that were around Idaho. And uh He was like, "You guys got any friends from Texas that you want to bring out.

And we're like, yeah, we got We got some friends. So, our first year we brought uh Cross Canadian Ragweed out. And uh they were there every year until they broke up. And then Cody continued to come back and play every year and he still has.

He's a bro. So, he'll always be there. But, um we have numerous people over the years that um kind of we kind of skip year to year in different people, but we have a lot of the same people back over the years. And uh you got your Suzy Bogguss and your Jeff Crosby's there every year, which is a good friend of ours who's an Idaho native and a guy that we co-write with all the time and then my dad's brothers come out and we do a Braun family show every Saturday.

It's pretty fun. It's always the most hectic show of the whole deal. How come? Oh, just cuz it like none of us we're all, you know, we're all musicians and we all Oh, yeah, I got it.

You know, and then start once you start putting the show together it's like, well, Christ, I haven't played that in years, you know. So, you know, it's always bounce around kind of a deal, but it's a lot of fun. Like once I was in charge of it last year and then we kind of filtered it around to the brothers to be like, who's in charge of the show this year. Oh, you'll swap off.

Yeah. Yeah. But, Willie and I usually take the reins. Cody did it for a couple years.

So, I guess it's not true. We've all taken our hand in it. But, um it's always fun and we always just basically have I would say 75% of the people playing there are people that we've been touring with for 25 years or more and uh and then we start throwing in new kids here and there and see that's what happens. Really impressed with Yeah, y'all help out a bunch of young artists and give them a platform.

to. I mean, that's kind of our vibe is getting the voices out to that neck of the woods in a in a larger scale to where they can come back and tour throughout the year. Like I brought I brought Parker out the first time and um cuz I'd written with him and I told the guys I was like, "Man, I really This kid's going to He's just he's a great musician, he's a great songwriter, great singer." So, we brought him out.

And unfortunately, it started raining like halfway through his set. So, he only got to play like a half a set. So, the next year I was like, "Hey, I want to have Parker back." And they were like, "Well, I don't know about having him two years in a row."

And I was like, "Yeah, but he kind of got screwed last year on his deal and he's like it's going to be a good deal. Like he's, you know, he's doing pretty good, you know, I don't think he's going to draw a lot of numbers in Idaho, but, you know, we'll see what happens." And he came back and got to play a full show and it was awesome. And then the next year uh untouchable.

Sorry, don't have the dough, kid. That timeline has That timeline's accelerated even more now. Yeah. Yeah.

No, but we've had like all kinds of people like that And then a lot of people that still just out of the I wouldn't say generosity, but the fact that they love playing our festival, they still come back. Like we had Randy Rogers and Wade Bowens and like people that come back every single year just because we're cool guys, man. I mean, come on. I mean, come on.

No, it's more like Bradley Cooper and Tom Cruise in person. But no, we've lucked out in the world of having a lot of great friends over the years, and they uh they come out and they like to party and hang out with us and have a good weekend, and we try and kind of put them up and treat them as the best that we can and like family, you know. And that's what the Braun Brothers Reunion is it's a family hangout, but just a bunch of friends that are getting together for a weekend at Horahooda have a good time. I've always heard amazing things about it, so come out sometime.

I'll dude, I'll throw my name in the hat for sure. I would be honored. Yeah, that'd be great. I've always heard awesome things about it.

it's awesome. It really is. It's a non-stop uh fun fest from the day the door opens, it's never stops. Yeah, but um 40 years, yeah, it says a lot about you guys as people.

Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean It's tough dude, it's hard It's a hard thing to do, especially these days with all the other festivals that are going on that are you know, kind of doing the same kind of genre, you know, we got people in Wyoming, we got people in Montana, we got people in Colorado, we got people in Utah, we got Well, I would always I would always doing the same the same thing, and then they're piggybacking each other all around trying to you know, it's like, "Oh, I see that these guys are coming here, they're going to the reunion, so let's grab them here, let's and it's and it's really cool that music is getting spread around, but it is does spread it a little a little bit where you're like, "Oh, Well, and there's a God damn it, I wanted to have Turnpike Troubadours here, you know, like But, there's a legit thing going on now, like you would know where that you have these first year festivals that just pop up all over the place. do. And they're kind I mean, I got to be honest, they're money grab.

Yeah. And like they don't have the infrastructure in place. It's not actually about developing any sort of real community or like any relationship with the patrons or the people showing up. All you hear are horror stories.

You know, you see it posted on social media where it's like this place didn't have anywhere to go to the bathroom, there wasn't water, and then it's like the after that year the place just disappears. Doesn't ever pop up again. Yeah, exactly. It's like go support fests that have been doing it for a while.

They're going to treat you right. Well, we have it we have it down and we have a cap on like how many people we let in. We don't if we have a big band that's overselling for a night, we still it's like sorry, you should have got your tickets early, you know, and that's because of bathrooms, food, places to sit, stand, like all those things are important to us to where we want every person that comes in there to actually sit down and enjoy the show. And we also only do one stage.

So, that's another big thing. We're not you don't have three playing at the same time? Yeah, we don't have a Yeah, we don't have a band over here that you got to run over here if you want to catch this band and No, we have one stage. Everybody plays on the same stage, so you get to see everybody that's on the marquee.

So, you need to you need to have TV screens up next to them, too. Giant screens that can be playing a football game. Yeah, yeah, have Bob Dylan come and meet put his hoodie on. Do it.

I went to I actually went and saw Dylan uh about a month ago. And it was him and Willie Nelson. It was the uh and Sheryl Crow. Woah.

And uh yeah, it was awesome. What a great show. I'll bet. Yeah, but I got to say, I love I love Willie Nelson and I love Bob Dylan, but Sheryl Crow That was the one.

That was the one. Totally. Yeah, and I get it, man. I get it.

But yeah, it was funny. I was watching the show and I was like I was with my wife and I was like So, Harley played guitar on the record. Fred played drums on our record. And I've written with all of the people on this I was just like, "Jesus, what a great band."

And they just rocked. I mean, they literally just blew the faces off of everybody. It was so cool. Really fun.

Where was it? It was in Menfield. I think Menfield, Massachusetts. Oh, okay.

Yeah, something like that. Something field. Somewhere about It was about an hour from my house. Dude, just get, you know, next year at Brown Brothers, just get Yeah, I think I will I can call everybody else on stage.

You guys Hey, come on down. What are you guys doing? You guys just What are you doing in '93? Suck it up, dude.

It's only It's only about seven 7,000 miles back and forth. But yeah, I know. It would be awesome to have that, but that's not going to happen. Cool, man.

Well, thanks, bro. Absolutely, man. Thank you. is it?

We got We got Yeah. two things to do and then we're all set. Yeah, we're all set. I