Chef Tim Love

Full episode transcript, auto-generated from the audio and lightly formatted (verbatim, not edited).

I wish I had the courage now to just give like a full introduction about you. That'd be the way to do it. That'd be interesting to hear actually. I would go Well, I told you I don't I don't I'm saying.

That'd be interesting to hear. That actually that would probably would be the only time. World famous chef. Uh pretty much owns Fort Worth Fort Worth Stockyards.

Uh kind of a man of mystery in ways. And mystery. Yeah. Well, and then now I know that you were on TV shows, too.

Like a lot of TV shows. So, that would be my introduction. All right. A kind person.

I will say that you seem to treat everybody the same. That's like a little thing I picked up from you regardless of maybe your status in life. You seem to like keep a pretty even keel. You just call a spade a spade.

And like if you're the lowest person on the on the totem pole, you treat him the same way as somebody else for the most part within reason. I'd be right. I mean, I'm the youngest of seven kids, so that's kind of how that comes out. You know.

You never know who you're talking to. That's for sure. Not that it really matters one way or the other, but you just don't know. I be somebody you need help from down the road or might be somebody you end up not liking, but One of seven.

You were the youngest, too. So, were you fighting for food? Yeah, I didn't There wasn't really much food when I got to it. There was Yeah, my parents were divorced when I was younger, so when the groceries came home, you know, I was 7 years younger than the closest one to me.

That was a mistake, so by the time I all this stuff was like mustard and cheese sandwiches and [expletive] like that. I wouldn't allow to eat at the love household. Okay. And all my brothers and sisters friends all stayed at our house.

We had this big house. Uh and we lived in Denton and back then there was no high school in Argyle or any of these other places. And so, people would come in for the week just stay at our house. They ate everything we had, so my school lunch was kind of my that's my vittles for sure.

Is that beyond like just funny had seven kids wouldn't a lot of food to go around or was it really like you had a different Well, it situation? No, it was different. Um I didn't know any different, so it wasn't you know, I didn't like my friends I go to their house and obviously it was a lot different. But my family was so tight and we had so much fun.

It really didn't affect me much. My mom went back to work. My dad did the did all the right things. It wasn't like he didn't pay his child support or any of that stuff.

And he you know, gave my mom the house and so on and so forth. Um but she was a woman with no job and seven kids. Two of them went to college pretty much right away and so we struggled pretty hard for a couple years. Burned some dining room furniture in the fireplace and [expletive] like that.

Cut down a couple trees in the front yard. How old would you have been when that was really bad? 9 10. You were Yeah, you So, you were definitely only dude left in the house.

My two sisters they were closest to me and then my next two were two brothers and they'd off to college as well, so, through middle school through high school it was a struggle. Yeah, we got when I got into high school, I was the only left in the house. We moved out of the big house finally and my mom had a great job. And so, it wasn't crazy.

You know, it wasn't much of a struggle. There was just those few years there that was But and I always tell people there's I'm a I've been at the bottom before. It really wasn't that bad, so I've got a really high risk tolerance. So, Your whole your whole life you've been that way?

Yeah. What did risk look like when you were younger? Uh you know, we didn't have uh Like when all my friends would be getting cars and stuff, I didn't get a car. I had to go to work and get a car.

Things like that and but it was a you know, kind of the as you know, necessity's the mother of invention. I was a I had a paper route since I was 11. Um before that I'd go cut down mistletoe out of trees and walk around during Christmas and sell it for a buck a bushel, you know, if people all the neighborhoods so I could make some money. Well, so that's hard work.

You learned how to work hard. Yeah. But where do you think you got the appetite for risk? Uh The appetite for losing it all.

Yeah, I just really I don't know. Just never really been afraid of losing it all cuz I know I know I got a good family around me. You know, so losing money is just I mean, I'll just go make more of it. So, yeah.

So, do you think just learning how to work really hard from the bottom is how you develop an appetite for risk? so. I think that you know what it takes to live and live happily. All the other stuff is just icing and fun on the top.

You know, it's all really creative challenges more than it is necessity challenges, right? I mean, nobody needs a nice car, right? Just [expletive] fun to have it. And nobody needs nice clothes or any of that [expletive] It's just those are all just fun things to have and also great challenges to work towards.

Um And my mom always raised us to be the best Listen to me. I'm a big gambler, so I mean, if I've won a nasty ton of money. I've lost a nasty ton of money. I'm not one of those guys that I want all the money in the world.

But I will say this. I did discover I said I got when I got divorced, you know, um they ask you to you know, report your winnings and earnings or whatever. I'm a fairly big gambler. I gamble on credit, so it's all recorded.

Mhm. And I was a little bit nervous about that cuz you can get in some pickles with that. I mean, like sometimes the court would make you pay half of your losses or even though my ex-wife was right there gambling with me the whole time. Wait, wait, wait.

Make you pay half your losses? Wait, how does that I've never heard of that in my life. statement though. Cuz then they This didn't happen with me because I get I get my report and it turns out I was up like for lifetime since 1998 I was up like almost a million dollars.

No kidding. Yeah, so you're an unbelievable whatever. What That dude, that seems so holy cow. So, you get to pay you get to pay half of what you make and half of what you lose.

It's crazy. I've never heard anything like The rules don't seem right. I can tell you that, but I've genuinely never heard that before. Yeah.

Do you know anybody that's had to do that? Oh, yeah. Pay half of the their Oh my goodness. It gets in it That's if it's a you know, people get really sideways.

I mean, my ex-wife and I didn't really get sideways. Yeah. She's a great woman so on and so forth. Her attorney not so great.

She was trying to find all the answers up and we were you know, we did pretty good. And um Well, yeah. So, anyways, I've had some times where I've lost money just to be clear and I guess that's why I have this appetite for gambling. I love to play blackjack and I love to gamble.

And Who taught you all that? My mom. No kidding. Yeah, my mom's badass blackjack player.

Is she still around? Oh, yeah. Yeah. 88 next month.

Whoa. She live like in Fort Worth? Yeah, she's she lives in Flower Mound now, but she's lived in Denton. I have a restaurant in Denton named after her called Queenie's.

It was a steakhouse in Denton, so I did not know you own Queenie's. Yeah. Yeah, we go there for we've been there for a couple anniversaries. Oh, awesome.

My wife got super hammered at one of them. I think. Yeah, I got hammered, too. In her defense.

Let's not discount just to one person. I understand. So, your mom taught you to gamble. Yeah.

How What was like the first thing she like how what was your first introduction to like played a lot of cards. Her parents, my grandparents, loved to play cards. We played we have a family game called Shanghai rummy. It's very similar to gin.

Okay. But you bet while you play. And um my pawpaw, you know, he wouldn't let us play unless you gamble. So, we used to when we were 6 7 you gamble with pennies.

Yeah. One penny, two pennies, three pennies in the pot, you know, and all this stuff. Now we play 5 10 and 20. You know.

Um As a family? Yeah, you got you know, $5 if you're if you're down, $10 if you're not, and 20 in the pot. Yeah. Anyways, it's a lot of fun, but that's where we you know, she taught me how to play cards and all that.

And um and then you know, eventually we started playing blackjack at home and stuff and then um I mean, to this day if I if I took my mom to Vegas and went to play blackjack, she'd stay up with me all night long playing blackjack. She loves it. No problem. She loves it.

Um did She still freaks out when I make her bet over $25, but sometimes I might Mom, you got to bet more money. We're winning. Yeah. More money.

Did you go down the craps rabbit hole much? craps and I love to play craps. I just don't make money at craps, so um my son and I play craps a lot. It's just such a fun social Correct.

And he loves to throw the bones and I love being there with them and I love it when you know, he played football at Texas and so his number was 44, so we bet that hard eight all the time and when it hits we go nuts. I love that. It's the best and I don't I just don't you know, when I decide I'm going to try to make some money I play blackjack. Although So, but this is you're just playing like basic strategy?

No, I play a lot of intuition. Um I can't really count cards, but I've got a tremendously good mathematical brain and I make a lot of educated guesses. Let's put it that way. Can we talk about that or do we not want to talk about that?

about it. I don't care. Oh, really? Mhm.

Um okay. So, count Well, I just don't even understand how you're keeping any So, are you kind of keeping a gut feel count type thing? Like not spot on obviously, No, no, it's not By the way, just to be clear and everybody thinks because they've watched the movies, even if you count cards, if you literally count cards, your advantage goes up by like Yeah, yeah, yeah. 6% maybe.

It's not not guaranteed. No, no, no. No, but if just playing basic strategy, you're like 49 roughly 49% like good by-the-book strategy. casino tells you, yes.

Okay. But That depends on how many decks you got. It also depends on who how it's shuffled. How much they pay for a blackjack?

That's right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like if you play in a high-limit room with a six-deck shoe that has to be shuffled, then your analysis is pretty much true.

About a 48% chance you win the game and you lose when you bet wrong. That 48% goes to 30%, right? That you bet you press on the wrong hand, you're 38%. Yeah, keeping the count is one thing, but then figuring out exactly when you really need to be betting and and when you decide to bet is the other thing.

Yeah, I haven't done like a huge deep dive with that. But if you swayed those odds like 5% one direction, I mean, yeah, you're whatever, you know. Toast or win. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You could win. So you kind of have like a more of a general feel for maybe If I don't get too [expletive] up, yeah, generally. Just to be honest. So you're really kind of just going off gut feels for the most part.

Yeah. I mean, I press. That's how I make money. That's how I But you know, blackjack is all about doubles and splits, nothing else.

Yeah. So if you're not if you don't win the doubles, which you should, right? Supposed to Theoretically, you get an you get an 11, the all the advantages are in your favor. Do you double on 10?

Mhm. And you put it what to what they have maybe? dealer's card, yeah. What would you go up to for that like what would you normally not double a 10 on with the Okay, so Yeah, if the dealer's got a 10 or ace, I wouldn't double.

You wouldn't double. Okay. Unless I'm winning. And I'm just like, "Eff you, I got it."

Okay, but that's a big caveat. Yeah. It is also It also depends on what else you've seen, too, right? So It's a lot of that, but I'm I mean, if the dealer's got a three, four, five, or six, and I've got a eight, nine, 10, You're doubling on an eight there, too.

Doubling, yeah. You wouldn't a seven, though. No, but you can get a real shitty hand. Even against a six?

Uh against a six, maybe. Okay. I don't have if I have Well, if you got a seven, you got 17. Right.

Theoretically, right? So you're not going to you're not going to hit that. You're going to stay. Yeah.

So you could potentially double a seven against a six. Yeah, but if you double a seven against a six, by the way, you're adding a card to a winning hand. You'd be dumb. But you have both cards up, right?

So you either got the either have a six, meaning 16. Yeah. Right? You're confusing the dealer yourself.

right, right, right, right. So you got seven. Yeah. You got seven if you got a three and a four.

Yeah, yeah, correct, correct, correct, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you have seven, yeah. If I have a seven and the dealer's got a six, yeah, I'd probably double that.

Yeah, okay. Why not? considered loose? Most likely, you're going to get a card, but you can't take another card anyway.

You That's you. But if you get a four, you're like, "Shit." Yeah, but But you're living with it regardless, you know, because you just took their four. You got to think of it that way.

I haven't ever thought of it that way. Yeah, so they would have had 20. I mean, you know what I mean? That's how I convince Yeah, we're all making That's how the math works, yeah.

Justifying. My favorite is calling a card and getting it. Oh, yeah. There's nothing better.

And then you're a hero, Oh, bro. How'd you know? Of course I knew. Dude.

Yeah. Or even before they flip over my second card and I have a seven and I'm just like, "Give me a four one time." They do it. There's a little black lady sitting next to me and she's like, "Oh my gosh."

How'd you do that? How'd you do that? Watch me do it again. Or get up on the two.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I say little black lady cuz they're usually the ones that don't care if I'm smoking a cigarette for whatever reason. Or Asians, like an Asian lady. They don't mind cigarettes.

But white ladies, a lot of times they're White ladies are going to complain about everything. We know that. That's why I play by myself. Gluten-free.

Yeah. Pescatarian. Yeah, exactly. Gluten-free lady next to you, you got to watch out.

Or carry the pills, that way you don't have to worry about it. Okay, so that I don't What is a gluten pill? Well, if most people are not um allergic to gluten or gluten averse, that's what the new term is. So if you have a celiac disease, which does exist, that means you can't have gluten, it'll really [expletive] you up.

But most people are gluten averse or just don't want to have it cuz, you know, maybe it doesn't make them feel good or their theory that it's the gluten doing it. Well, no, I mean, some people like my fiance, for instance, she's done all the tests. I mean, she's she eats gluten, it's not going to kill her. She just doesn't feel good or she's bloated Yeah.

or like that. So they make gluten pills, which you take the pill and it attaches to the gluten. So it removes it from your body before it goes into the system. Interesting.

I've never even heard of that. Now, I'm sure if you take this every day, it's probably not great for you, but you take it when you like For instance, we'll go to Yeah, if you're at a place where it's like kind of rude to not or it's just awkward you know, she loves pasta, and so it's like, you know, it's going to or if we're going and we're traveling and we're going to go eat a badass dinner, I'm like, "Take the pills." Yeah. Yeah.

So But that's my whole point. I know there's people out there that have allergies, but like it's rare it's not you know, people like, "I'm allergic to cilantro." I'm like, "No, you just don't like cilantro." That's fine, but don't tell me you're [expletive] allergic to it because that sends a signal through my kitchen of like, "We got to protect this person."

Oh, yeah, it amplifies totally. Well, I generally speaking in society, words have gotten so watered down where people just throw stuff around that like the idea of calling somebody a racist nowadays is for me, that's a big deal. Like, "Excuse me?" But now everybody just says like everything's racist.

It just diminishes the actual value of the word. Right. Or like now everybody's got the word I have anxiety. It's like, "Yeah, because you're broke and you don't work."

Yeah. Like that's Go get a job and you might not be as anxious. It's human. Humans get anxious.

Yeah, a lot of anxiety is making you go do something and be productive. I feel unproductive. Or um There's all like everybody now like says I have autism. They're like, "Oh, just touch of the tism.

I'm a little autistic." It's like, "Don't There's people that are actually autistic." Exactly. They need help.

Yeah. And you know, because you're a little quirky in social settings. ADHD, that's another one that's tossed around a lot. It's like, "Who has that attention?

Nobody does." No one. No, oh, you mean squirrel in their own right. And especially with all the drugs that are out there now, you wander around, nobody knows what the hell's happening.

I just can't focus when I'm doing my taxes. Yeah, no [expletive] Yeah, cuz it sucks. It sucks. It's not 80 You don't have a condition.

It's crazy. Yeah, so do you have like how weird has that change been in your restaurants with all the allergy stuff? Like I feel like almost every restaurant you go to these days, you literally sit down, the first thing they say is, "Do anybody have any food allergies?" And I appreciate the gesture, but it's more of a what I would say is uh what people feel is a requirement now.

I mean, to me, um I don't like that as a greeting. We don't do it. Um I also feel like it's the obligation of the diner, which would include me when I'm dining, right? If there's something that you can't have, you should present that to the server.

Or more importantly, if you're really allergic to something, Right. when you make the reservation, you should you should make that note. Hey, by the way, I'm allergic to gluten. I'm a celiac, for instance.

Okay. Well, then the kitchen's already prepared for you. And that way your guests aren't uncomfortable, the server's not uncomfortable, the kitchen's not uncomfortable. To me, it's the obligation of the diner if you have special requests, which would be something good like, "Hey, I want to make sure we get a bottle of champagne at the table, put it on this credit card."

Is the same to me as saying, "I'm allergic to peanuts. Definitely allergic to peanuts. You know, this is that and that is this. Do you fry your chips in peanut oil?"

Or you know, whatever that is. Pose those questions before you get to the restaurant, allow the restaurant to make you be happy without embarrassing you. Or not that it's embarrassing to have an allergy, but like to me, when I go to dinner with my friends, I want it to be about being with my friends and having fun, not about me having some sort of allergic reaction to something and everybody gets on this weird tangent. Like let's sit down and enjoy the food and we'll make sure this guest is taken care of without any questions.

Yeah. That's just my but I'm old school, you know. Has the have the oils become a big deal? Oh, yeah, like seed oils and all that [expletive] Yeah, that's just another topic people like to talk about cuz it's in the news.

Okay. Is there any validity to it? Yeah, there is. Okay.

Seed oils are pretty bad for you. Okay. Just to be clear. And don't confuse that with peanut oil.

Peanut oil is not bad for you. Okay, that's a hot take cuz I would I would have considered peanut oils to be like the same type of hyper-processed kind of vegetable oil. there are some hyper-processed peanut oils, I'm sure, but it's I love peanut oil. People don't use it because of people saying they have peanut allergies.

So But it does not have the same Well, it produces the best fry other than like beef tallow, which is expensive, is peanut oil as opposed these hydrogenized seed oils and all that stuff. I did not know that. Yeah, peanut oil is really flavorful. In fact, peanut oil is what I use when I do like I teach people how to grill steaks, you use peanut oil.

Okay, I went down the algae oil rabbit hole and I bought a bunch of bottles of that. Cuz everybody was saying that a of fancy chefs good, though. Well, it tasted clean, I will say. Like it has no almost has no flavor like grape seed Okay.

So grape seed oil is the benefits of grape seed oil is that it's very neutral. And it's got a really high flash point so you can cook really high. Oh, it does have a high heat. Yeah, smoke point.

Yeah, same with peanut oil. That's why I like it for grilling. Oh, so okay so they told me that algae oil has the highest smoke point in the world is what they were touting it as. Uh that's probably right.

I don't really cook with it much cuz I like flavor over you know like with peanut oil you get this nice roasty beautiful flavor when you use it on meat. But uh I don't cook much with algae oil so Okay, this is very interesting. I'm like a I'm upset I don't dude I don't freaking I'm no nothing special in the kitchen at all. But about 2 years ago I made a it's kind of a bucket list thing.

I was like I want to get better at cooking. I want to be able to do some good stuff so and I love searing things in a pan. I'm just obsessed with searing things in a pan and getting like the best crust that I can ever find. My house is too shitty though.

My kitchen's too shitty. smoky. Well, yeah and then just like an electric stove like come on. That don't matter if you got cast iron though.

Just got to be patient for it to get hot. Really? But as opposed to using like a stainless steel pan It still don't get hot enough. Does not get hot enough?

I sure don't like your stove. Why does everybody tell say that Okay, well I'm using like generalities everybody. This is like me like Everybody This is me flicking on YouTube or whatever and hearing Gordon Ramsay tell me I need to get confidence in the pan. It's true.

Which confidence is heat, right? And they're all saying I got to use like stainless steel. It's like the way steel is easy to clean and it depends on what but steel doesn't get that hot. Now if it's got a core some sort of you know aluminum core or copper core it can get pretty hot.

But if my pan's smoking like when I sear that steak and it's gets smoky Yeah, you put the steak in though and then you go to flip it. You get a sear good sear on one side and the other side don't get sear as well. 100% I know that's what I do for a living in case you're wondering. Yeah.

Is that really? Dude, I love that you answered me seriously. That makes me so happy. I don't know.

You say you don't know what the [expletive] I do so No, I've obviously I know what you do but getting into I hate figuring out everything about somebody and then asking questions around it cuz I think people know. You talk about gut feelings. It's like when you it's like you can kind of know when you ask somebody a question and they already know the answer to it and they sort of lead it you know. So I was reading you know and you're like yeah.

It just kind of makes the question more boring. And you know when they give something the reason you're typically asking a question that you know the answer to is because the answer's awesome. Oh yeah as opposed to interesting. Answer's awesome instead of interesting.

could be interesting too and that's why you're asking it but your reaction to it is not going to be the same as the first time you heard you read it or something so I always like to keep it just as loose as possible. All right. Little bizarre. So you sear steaks in stainless steel pan that's how it works.

Yeah. Well, but so flipping it I can't get the sear on the other side. Because it's too cold but it smoked on the other side. Well, cuz you can get the pan smoking hot no matter what then you put the meat in there it immediately cools the pan.

off too much. And then you can't ever get it hot again. That is exactly what's happening. What about the layer of uh the so like salting my steak.

I've gone back and forth between like letting it I get is that called brining when you salt it for a while or no? No, I mean a brine is when you salt it brine generally is a liquid. Okay. Salt is salt.

so I mean there's salt in brine. Okay. but I don't really brine red meat at all. I do pork and chicken any kind of poultry.

Yeah. Uh but I don't I don't brine red meat. Okay, but salting the steak for a while but letting it rest I guess um before you cook it I've I don't do that either. Okay.

Interesting. I want the you know I get Jose Andres and I get in a argument about this all the time. He likes to salt steaks afterwards. I like to salt steaks just before we put it in the pan, right?

He likes to sear it. You know and then when he slices it and then puts salt on top. And I'm like then it doesn't have that crust like I got meat. You can get a you get the crust of the meat a little bit but not but you want to get the crust of that salt and pepper mixed with the oil and the fat makes a real crisp, right?

That's I mean as an American that's all I know. And the Spaniards they don't know what the [expletive] they're talking about with meat. So they just cook them different. They like them different.

Yeah that it's a it's a it's a hot point for he and I. But we're good buds so we talk [expletive] all the time but So he likes a little bit of a crust but just not to be crusty but he don't want any of the seasoning. He wants the seasoning and seasoning after. Interesting.

And then when you get a thick steak I mean you can't that it's like trying to season grits after. You can't do it. You don't season the water. Cook the grits in the water.

Right? If you try to make grits and then see it salt them they'll never get salty enough. Can't do it. It seems like you really actually like love the actual I guess but what is it that you love about like cooking?

I mean it's the greatest thing in the world to me. Relaxing, sexy, fun aggressive, adventurous, creative. I mean you name them. I mean it's an endless pattern of education.

And it seems like one of the only arts that has like a real primal element to it. It's the only one. I don't know. Maybe.

It's not a bad opinion I guess. I mean you know there's so many forms of cooking, right? It's not just like there is of painting. But you know in the end there's a lot of science to cooking so it's a good blend like in you know if somebody is a great painter I mean they blend colors, yes.

It's the only scientific part to it maybe. Maybe but there's not really like in cooking there's real science to where things combine and uh the way they separate and I guess the science behind some of the other arts is only in the tools that you use to make the art. Yeah, that might be right you know like But there's not actually in the essence of making the art there's not a lot of science. Well, no but if you take a piece of wood and you put a chisel on it, right?

It's going to make a mark. Right. But you take an egg and you can cook it 20 different ways. Yeah.

And it does 20 different things and 20 different textures and 20 different ability I mean like it's crazy. You can take I mean there's you know 20 some uh stages of cooking an onion. They all have a name. They all taste different.

They all have different texture. They all do different things for different dishes. You know the way you cut an onion flavors things completely different than cutting it a different way. Flavor wise?

Yeah, like you take an onion and you slice it, right? Like you put a slice of onion on top of your burger which is the only real reason you'd ever slice an onion or you're making onion rings. It's super pungent. slicing onion versus like dicing an onion?

No, then you've got then you take the onion and you turn it the other way and you slice it. You need the traditional you know I'm talking about rings, right? Yes, sir. If you take the onion and turn it 90° and slice it's called a julienne onion and when you do that you only breaking like I don't know 1/50 1/100 of the cells that you do when you cut it like a ring.

So it's much more pungent when you cut it like a ring. That's why you put it on a burger with the cheese and the fatty meat and all that stuff. You eat julienne the onion just turn the other way to put it on a salad so it's nice and light on your palate and then don't overtake it. Wow.

I only I only the only thing I knew about I'd learned how to dice an onion I guess like a year ago which I'm still trying to get better at. Uh where I guess you do um Yeah, you slice it flat a couple times and come back across this way and then you come back that way. It's three times. Yeah.

Or three? I guess I'm only doing them Oh yeah I'm doing it three times. Yeah. Yeah.

But then I guess by not cutting the root portion of it Yeah, leave the root to hold it together. Yeah. But then by not cutting that it doesn't seem to uh water the [expletive] about water in your eyes. Oh, it does.

It's about how sharp your knife is. No kidding. The more you smash the onion the more it releases like I'm talking about. And that's how sharp my knife is?

Yeah, cuz if it's not sharp you're bursting the onion as it's cutting through as opposed to slicing through. Man alive. Well, that's free by the way. Yeah.

This is all free information. I do I do find it I love it um I'm trying to I'm trying to get more into it as an art form. I actually what attracted me the most to cooking is just the primal part of it. Um I guess the art behind it is when I make something I get so excited if I'm proud of it.

I get way more excited about somebody else having it than me having it. Always. I don't even want like the good parts. the point of cooking.

It's like to please people. That's how that's how that's my whole motto in life. Like what do I do to make people happy? Were you would you do you think you're a people pleaser?

I do. Were you always that way? Yeah, I think I kind of had to be. You know you figure out ways to make people happy it makes your day a lot happier.

It always does. I mean I can't even instance where you could do something for somebody that makes them happy you walk away and you're like man that sucked. It never happens that way. It always happens the opposite of that.

Yeah, but why would everybody not be a people pleaser? Do they just not realize that or something? I think so. I mean, I think that's kind of in general in humanity right now.

Well, I'm being a We're so worried about my opinion, people are so worried about what other people think of them. And every [expletive] step of the way. But they forget that it how easy it would be to get somebody a glass of water and like, oh man, thank you. Like, you're welcome.

You're welcome. Hey, man, that's awesome. Speaking of, do you want another cocktail? I always want cocktails.

Hey, Steve. There was uh he should remember what he had, I think. Fortaleza, soda and a lime. Yeah, cool.

Uh but peop- people pleasing nowadays kind of has a negative connotation. How do you say that? Maybe it comes off as just pandering. And not being sincere.

Oh, well, I guess that's true. I guess that's addicted to I've heard some people almost explain it the opposite of the way you're explaining it, where being a people pleaser is like you are obsessed with what people think. So, you're constantly trying to please everybody. Uh I mean, I guess there's a negative side to everything.

Probably. Yeah. Think about it. Yeah.

I'm also quite the positive person, so I don't really I have a hard time remembering any negative events in my life, honestly. I really do. I know they happened, but I can't remember dates or anything about it. I just put negative [expletive] out of my head.

Is that like is that something you had to consciously learn how to do? No, not really. I just never I've just always I'm always I'm forever an optimist, man. I'm a half full all the time kind of person.

I'm always dreaming, always thinking of things that people say I can't do. You know, and figuring out ways just to do it. Just to see if I can do it sometimes. a I have a theory about that type of person um just in terms of just being youngest children.

I've noticed most people in my experience that are like very creative and kind of have that independent streak to them and are uh and they love like developing their own ideas and chasing down their own like kind of thoughts and dreams. Often times in my experience have been youngest children. I'm youngest of three. And the only way I can make sense of that is that I had a lot of time just being lugged around to just different events and I had a lot of time to just think about just be alone with my thoughts.

And I was forced to just sit at a ballerina thing. Oh, yeah, all the time. All the time. I mean, I used to sit there and my sister was in drill team, right?

And I had to watch her practice every day cuz I mean you know, there's nobody to babysit me or anything. Go entertain yourself. Yeah. So, you figure that [expletive] out, I guess.

Have you noticed that a lot of creatives are youngest children? Cuz I've seen it conversely, too, where if you were the center of attention because you were the baby, that also Yeah, I don't know about that. I do think there's a lot I think there's a lot to you know, what zodiac sign you are. I think there's a lot to where you are in span of the children of the family.

I think that all plays. I just do. Have you ever seen that um You ever had the kind of read It's based on where you're born, what time you're born. What the I just had it down until it's crazy.

Uh It's not I mean, it's I don't know a lot about this. It's not like palm reading kind of stuff. No, no, it's not palm reading. It's a straight up like it's a algorithm this guy came up with in the '70s.

And it talks about um you know, how you communicate with people and how you receive things and uh like where you are best suited. this not the test that a lot of companies have used now to No, no, not like a personality. It's like a Like a certain thing in there it says where a place where you're most comfortable. So, for instance, uh my fiance hers was valleys.

And the guy is like, not necessarily Thank you. I know you got me one. The guy is like, not necessarily uh just cuz it says valley doesn't mean you need to live in the valley. You need to be looking at a valley.

This is your where you'll be happiest. And you know, he's like, mine was mountain, so I moved to Tulum, which has no mountains, but I live on the top floor. Like those types of things. And this you can't make this [expletive] up, by the way.

And the guy goes and he goes and he turns the page. We're having this reading done. And he turns the page, he goes, and you remember I happy place was? Kitchen.

Literally, that's what it said. I'm like, what the [expletive] Knew nothing about you. No. In fact, So, then he goes in and says, now, kitchen doesn't necessarily mean in a kitchen.

It can mean you that you are live well in chaos with things going around you. And I mean, he starts doing all these descriptions. And we're sitting there and we had some room service on the floor. He goes like this, you know, there's just things that kind of uh astray, your clothes are around.

And he's like, you live well in that. And I said, I'm actually a professional stuff. He goes, no [expletive] He turned white. Oh, it freaked him out.

Yeah. I mean, so this guy figured out this thing and this I'm going to think of what it's called. It's like a It's not But you said it's an algorithm. Yeah, this guy not like a magic kind of thing.

No, it's a it's by being born at this time from this area and you know, um I don't know the other question. Maybe you can look it up. The No, I just remembered he wrote it. No, no, this is uh God, if I could think of it.

You can look it up. There's like a You can punch it in and it'll give you a basic reading. And um And there was uh So, then it gives you like a character of like who you are and how you And it's like you're you are um You set examples for people on how they should be, how they should act, how they I mean, like you have this obligation and all that. It's crazy.

It's wild [expletive] And it I mean, it described That's what he was saying about you? Yeah, it described me to a [expletive] T. I was like, whoa. How were you with a bunch of friends?

No, just me and my lady. That was it. Whoa. Did it freak her out?

Yeah, she's like, wow. Did he uh do her for lack of a better phrase? Yeah. What did he What did So, did he did he Yeah, I mean, it's crazy like, you know, and it's funny cuz she's an identical twin.

And um so, we asked him, would her twin have the same reading? And she he said, no, actually what happens is throughout life they switch. As a you know, one is actually like this, the other one's like that, and then they switch later in life, and then they come back. But I have identical twin daughters, too.

It's crazy, so. You're saying they switch? So, like the you know, identical twins don't have the exact same personality, right? They don't do the So, there's they have two identities necessarily in this reading.

But throughout life, they kind of switch and then they switch back. You know, like Do you understand what I'm saying? Cuz they as their brains form, they you know, let's say one is a I'm making this up. One's a big runner, and the other one actually likes to play golf.

Okay. And throughout life, they would switch and then one starts playing golf, and the other one starts to become a runner, and then they come back. I'm making this up. her reading though, was there um like character traits or something that he identified in her, but they really were her s- Well, yeah, well, it's he's identified that she's a twin.

So, it's wild, dude. I'm telling you. Some wild [expletive] I'll think of what the reading is, and when I remember what it is, you can look it up. It's nuts.

I'm sorry I can't remember. not even there's not like one guy that does this. No, it's a it's the dude came up with the Yeah. It's a it's a You probably It's like a mathematical situation.

No, I'm not. I got taste. What was the end of that night like after he left? Awesome.

Were you guys just like uh We said, what is out. Meaning? I know I'm as soon as this uh This happens, I'll figure it out. But let's move on, but it's awesome.

Uh no, no, we can talk about this forever. and talk about it forever. It's fascinating [expletive] in it. Yeah, whoa.

It's wild. Yeah, it's weird that it's not like a magic trick. No, it's not a magic trick at all, and it's uh I don't remember she hit me right back. Human design.

That is That's it. So, it's your human design. Look that up. Human design.

Human design. Yeah, I would that would have put me in a tailspin for the rest of the night. Yeah. Like I'd have been just Well, we were kind of I mean, we were both pretty sauced, yeah.

Uh no, we weren't. Have you ever been to Have you ever been to Tulum? I have. We almost went, but I haven't been able to go yet.

Man, so my lady likes the wellness stuff. We do a lot of yoga and um she wanted to do all these readings. We did the chakra, we did the human design, all this stuff. And uh We would get up in the morning do 2 hours of yoga in the middle of the jungle.

Then we go do one of these readings, and then we do a big massage deal, and then we go have lunch and get wasted. Man, that sounds nice. It was ridiculous. I had so much fun.

I mean, it's one of the best trips I've taken with her. And it was like We were thinking we were going to go to Italy, which I love. And I'm like, you know, we really only have 5 days. We really want to spend 2 days of it on an airplane.

You know what I'm saying? I was like, man, I looked up Tulum. It's all the things you like, you know? She's like, all right.

You fly into Cancun, right? We did. There's an airport in Tulum now, though. We flew out of Tulum, flew into Cancun, flew out of Tulum.

Cuz I when we were going to go, it was still you know, how everybody talks like when you go anywhere, oh, it's super dangerous. Like pretty much anywhere international, everybody tells you it's just the most dangerous place in the world. It is to I mean Tulum seems pretty chill though. There's parts you don't want to go to just like every city.

This is a little bit in Tulum. It got real popular there for a minute. Yeah, there's some cartel stuff but that's when you go into downtown. You stay in that what they call the beach zone or the hotel zone.

Okay. It's pretty damn safe. I do I found some Airbnbs down there that were just badass. Oh yeah, but I would say you know that they are badass but man we stayed in this cool little boutique hotel.

Walked everywhere. There's some There's three or four one two star Michelin restaurants there. Really? They're all outdoor.

I mean it's sick. So you flew straight into Tulum? Yeah. Yeah.

You like five days is what you said? was awesome. Why do you love Italy? Best food in the world.

So chill. Great beaches. I mean it's What's not to like? I've never been to the beaches there.

Well when I was young. The food I was not I liked the American Italian food more. Oh really? Yeah.

Where did you go? Uh well we I get we went to Venice, Florence and uh Rome. And my dad's like obsessed with Italian food. Obsessed.

And uh so he was super excited about it and we I swear we hit every trattoria that exists. Everywhere he saw it and like everywhere you can find some bad food. Okay. Well it wasn't bad.

It was different. It actually seemed similar to um how people describe like traditional Mexican food to me. Oh yeah. Where they're like well that ain't the real stuff.

Like this Tex-Mex stuff ain't the real stuff and I'm like well this Tex-Mex stuff it Tex-Mex and it's [expletive] delicious. And it seems more flavorful in my opinion. It's just different like you said. Different yeah.

Yeah. I think you know just like you can't get a Caesar salad in Italy cuz it didn't come from Italy it came from Mexico. Oh Caesar salad did. Interesting.

That's a fun fact. Now it found its way to American Italian which I by the way don't get wrong I [expletive] Caesar salads. I love Caesar salad but I think it's one of the weirdest dishes ever. Why is that?

Well you don't you make it with anchovies? I just find that so bizarre. Who thought of that? To make a sauce out of that.

It didn't the first Well the Italians really thought of blending anchovies into a lot of things in vinaigrettes and stuff like that. So like you be surprised if you put an anchovy into something and blend it up how good it tastes. Really? Yeah.

God it shows you how ignorant I am. umami from anchovy is amazing. It's like You may not want to eat it outright cuz it's pretty powerful but like you know you go in the store like the Asian section there's stuff called fish sauce. Yeah.

Next time you make a pot of beans just put some fish sauce in it and see what happens. You'll be like what the [expletive] just happened? Oh my gosh dude that's awesome. game changer for you.

That's like a That's like a little bit pardon the French but Asian Chinese secret man. You making anything that's rich a rich stew or something like that just add some fish sauce to it you'll be like wow whole different level. That's incredible. So like even like a What about like a bean soup?

Yeah 100%. So I would I would puree it. Yeah if you're making bean soup right now to make bean soup just put a little fish sauce in it. Just fish sauce?

Yeah while it's simmering. That's fascinating. Yeah but I guess the weird part about Caesar salad is eating it all growing up. That seems like something if I knew how it was made I would not have liked it.

But as a kid Well no that's just cuz some reason in America we tell people anchovies are bad and they're not. Uh That's all it is. It's just marketing. I would have just never known.

It doesn't taste fishy. Well if you get I guess sometimes taste fishy when you tell somebody it's anchovy and they're like oh I can taste it now. That is before it just tasted awesome. The human palate is very bizarre.

Yeah. Uh And then did you do you smoke cigarettes or anything? No. Did you used to?

Smoke weed. Oh you do? Yeah. I don't not often but yeah I smoke weed but I don't Cigarettes never my thing.

Really even being a chef? No. Cuz in I mean is that just a stupid stereotype or is that pretty true that a lot of chefs smoke? Uh it's just a stress thing I think.

Ironically it actually increases your blood pressure. Yeah but makes you feel better when you smoke I guess. I don't know I don't smoke but I'm more of a take a shot tequila kind of guy when I'm stressed. Well I'd probably just do both.

Let's be honest. Dude after a show back alley a beer and a cigarette is just That's the That's the king for you right there. Oh my gosh there's not a lot better. My wife hates it though.

She wants you all I mean this studio is right next to a cigar bar so and we smoke cigars on here sometimes so it always smells like She hates it when I come home from doing podcast. She's like immediately just go take a shower. I know that's how I was thinking about it when I'm like oh I'm going to smell like cigars today. Yeah sorry.

Sorry. You get me in the White Elephant used to be smoking dude and I would go through there if I just even if I just walked through it from the back to the front I'd have to take my clothes off when I got home. So bad. Really just in that bar?

Oh dude insane. When did it stop being smoking? I think like 10 years ago but it didn't come to say not that long ago. No.

Holy cow. It's right I mean I bought it. I remember the city of Fort Worth was like oh yeah they're going to get away with smoking in maybe two more years and then it ended up being like 10. I was like god.

And you owned it at that time? Yeah that's right. Yeah. How long have you owned it?

25 24 years. White Elephant I mean but shoot at this point I mean you What old are you? in the stockyards. Uh let's see Atico at the top of the Springhill Suites my Spanish tapas bar.

That Is that the one with the views and all that yeah. Or and then it's got the grassy wall or something? That's right uh-huh. Yeah.

All right okay. That um Can Hills Tavern Can Hills Music Hall. He's pizza shop. Uh the Love Collection my clothing store.

Um What Okay. Does that have any relation to Love Shack? Yeah Love Shack is mine Okay. as well the burger joint next to White Elephant.

Yeah. And then Caterina's my high-end Italian American Italian restaurant. If you like American Italian you need to go to that spot it's right across from Can Hill. And oh all right.

Lonesome Dove obviously. And then I thought What about the Mexican restaurant? Oh yeah Paloma Suerte Oh I just forgot about I have a private club called La Loteria also so. Private club?

Yeah it's above Can Hills? Uh Paloma and Can Hills yeah. Yeah okay that's what you showed me when I was there. We okay.

Very cool. Yeah the one of the most fascinating things about you that I should have included in your introduction too. I forgot about this part. But was walking around the place and you knew light fixtures like and stuff on the wall like you knew every little thing every little detail that you would think with as much [expletive] as you have going on.

Uh I mean come on the light fixtures. But you're like oh no this is from this place this guy and so I was I found that to be very impressive. That was so cool. Well thank you.

Artist. Got to stay focused. Yeah and you can tell like that rooftop bar that's funny now that I know I when I went I didn't know that you owned it. But now thinking back on it just the vibe of that place it makes sense.

Yeah. It's a cool spot man. Very cool. That was kind of uh my inspiration for that was a place called Can Yet Te in Barcelona.

[expletive] badass tapas bar. What's a top What does tapas mean? You know small plates uh not a restaurant. So the service is different.

You know the service at Atico is not traditional table four chairs silverware set. It's more like get cocktails have fun drink wine and order badass food and it comes out and everybody eats off of it. Yeah I love that vibe. That's a Spanish inspired thing?

Mhm. But that would not be something that they would go to for dinner or it would be it's just People go to it for dinner but it's not a dinner place. Okay. It's not a restaurant.

Okay. And it took a while to convince people what that means. Like we don't have a hostess. You know you come in and you find a spot somebody approaches you gets you some cocktails start having [expletive] fun.

Yeah. Yeah you want some bites you order some bites. You want some more bites you order some more bites. Not like here's your first course your second course you know.

It's just traditional for what I do but you just order and you want some more [expletive] you order more [expletive] So you just the whole How long have you been in What was your first restaurant in Fort Worth? Cuz this is everything. Lonesome Dove. Oh it was?

25 years this past June. Congrats. Yeah that's a feat by the way in my industry. 25 years same place.

What's the typical timeline for Six to eight at most. Is that like they go out of business or you move on to something else? Uh well you know most people have a five or a 10 year lease. They either A they don't renew or B they go out of business.

Yeah. How What percentage do you think I know there's lots of statistics out there you know. I don't know if any of them are right or wrong but it's not in my favor. Let's put it that way.

Well I think like Isn't it just like 90% of small businesses in general fail in the first five years or something? Yeah first couple years really. So a restaurant would probably be like 98% or something. It gets amped a little bit and it's a it's really a cash flow problem and so when independents like me open a restaurant that don't have a lot of cash you get pinched you know cuz one month Yeah you get one bad spot you're screwed.

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that's probably across all small businesses just like under capitalization. That's a big word for me.

I appreciate that by the way. I mean Capitalization? I'm going to put that right in my mental notes. Yeah I'm going to I'm still freaking cuz I get under capitalized and I'm like whoa.

Whoa. This guy knows what the [expletive] he's talking about. Freaking cowboy hat thought he was stupid. Uh he doesn't know what tapas means.

Yeah. But, by God You do now. capitalization. Yeah.

Yeah, under capitalization. You just know that they're under capitalized. I just learned that before this podcast to impress you, to be honest. that.

Little bit of effort, huh? Hey man, you got to put some effort somewhere. Dude, I'm a big effort guy. That as I've gotten older, it's I think I've always been this way.

I think I just recognize it now, but effort is one of my biggest like turn-ons. Just like giving a [expletive] Yeah, I agree with that. Cuz like the punk like what I grew up around was or like in the '90s, uh like with Nirvana and the grunge movement and punk and all that was very like I don't give a [expletive] about anything. Like apathy was cool.

Um and then so in the 2000s growing up there was that wave of um and maybe it's always existed with kids where if you got a C on the test, you barely passed, but you didn't study at all. You put in no effort, but you still passed. It's like that's cool. As opposed to the person that tried really hard to get a C is different.

Or even if they got an A. Yeah. It's still not as cool as the guy that didn't try and got a C, which I think as you get old that's stupid. Yeah.

That's stupid. Effort's badass. Yeah, you're sitting there going man, if I just would have put 20% more effort into X, Y, or Z. Yeah.

How different would that be? get into personal relationships and uh you know, like I've been married for 7 years and somebody's saying uh you know, it's like apathy in a relationship is probably one of the worst things ever. Got to be the worst. Cuz it's dangerous too cuz being apathetic can actually get you a lot of power in a relationship.

If the other person does care, cuz you can get them doing a lot for you and you don't put forth any effort. worse really cuz then you're unappreciative and Yeah, so now just like when people care about something and then noticing some people in life that they might go through their entire life and never give 100% effort in anything that they do. I'm talking to 100%. There's people that go through their whole life and can't look back on anything that they can't tried their hardest at.

And I think that's so sad. You don't have that joy. That's where you I mean, the joy is knowing that you did everything you can to make something great. That's me, I mean.

Make something great. Like Have fun. If you're going to do it, do it all I mean, I say this to the team all the time. Like I just gave the I just gave one of our very few all staff meetings last Friday.

And unfortunately, the liquor board in Tennessee screwed up my renewal and came and literally said, "You no longer have a liquor license." This is at Friday at like 2:00 in the afternoon. When was this? Last Friday.

Oh my gosh. And so they delivered this notice. They tell my general manager, "You got to lock the booze up, literally." So I read the letter and the letter actually says you can't serve liquor after August 15th, which was Friday.

So I tell the team, like, "I'm going to fix this. You don't need to worry about it. Says after the 15th. We'll follow the letter.

You can serve liquor tonight." Problem is it's Friday, you know, and we can't serve on Saturday or Sunday. And of course, that's a problem. And my sister who handles my accounting calls and there's a mix-up in our bond.

We have a $36,600 that they require us to keep. They keep our money, no interest. And they increased it to $3,000 more, which we never got notice of. And so they said we're out of compliance and literally just shut us down.

So Boy, don't the government have a knack for being able to hold on to your money and pay you no interest? the crazy part about it is I'm freaking out about this cuz the lady already told my sister, "Hey, you're toast. It'll be 3 or 4 weeks before we can get a liquor license. You don't have a license anymore."

That's what they told her. It's not like about a renewal anymore. You're out. So And then And this is this is not for just one restaurant or This for one restaurant in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Okay, okay, okay. So That's it that puts you back. it, 4 weeks, I mean all you like under almost. Well, yeah, it'll put me under and my employees don't have jobs.

That's the most important thing now. I'm about to give this speech to my employees trying to amp them up for what's coming up. I'm in the middle of I'm about to lose this restaurant for my yeah. And so getting back to best efforts, my speech was and you know, I'm got this guy on the phone and he's working with me.

I'm doing the best I can. My assistant's there. I got to get on the Zoom. And I got to be 120% for my team.

Right? Cuz I'm about to lose potentially you know, 250, 300,000 dollars in revenue. And uh And what I keep thinking about is the same thing I was going to tell them was, you know, only person that knows your brand is you, right? And your brand is the one thing that nobody else can take away from you, can influence.

Only you can influence your own personal brand. And when you choose to take a job no matter what the job is or where you go. You go apply for that job, right? And they interview you and you sell them a bill of goods about your brand.

For instance, you as a musician, like I want to play this gig and this is the amount of people I draw. This is my audience. This is what it is. You're reselling it, right?

And then the person you sell it to either accepts or denies. Pretty simple mathematical equation. However, if it's accepted then there's a new level of what your brand has to represent, which is you got to deliver on the bill of goods you just [expletive] sold somebody. And so as I'm giving the talk to the whole team, 786 people, mind you, is you've got to know that I have trusted you to deliver your brand to us every day.

We're paying you for it. We're expecting it. And if you can't deliver on your own personal brand then your job's not the problem. You know?

Your mirror is the problem. Your effort is the problem. It's not I don't have to tell you that you suck. You already know it.

I should be telling you how great you are cuz you showed up and did exactly what you told me you could do. How hard is that? How much is that to ask? I'm actually not asking for anything the way I look at it.

If I ask for a little bit extra effort, I'm asking for something. But you've already told me your personal brand does this. I'm exciting. Let's see it.

I believe in you. And man Is that's holding somebody accountable. Yeah, but without saying you did anything wrong. I don't want to tell people that they're doing something wrong.

I want them to look at that and go [expletive] he's right. I should have My shoes should have been clean. I should have pressed my apron yesterday. I should have organized my tools tonight.

that because they've already agreed with themselves that's what they're expecting themselves That's what I want them to do. And so all you're doing is being the mirror. I'm just trying to let them know what it is, but what your perception of your own brand is. Like this is what's happening.

The reason why people will succeed is they give the best efforts into their brand and people recognize that and give them opportunity. And so this is the speech that you're giving to them while you're while I'm in the [expletive] And uh but that's part of what you're saying. Give everything you got all the time and you got to be able to segregate things certain times. You can't come in to work saying I ran over my cat.

It's terrible. I get it. It's the worst. But again you didn't tell me that I can do all these things except for if I get my cat gets run over.

Yeah. You didn't tell me that. Now if you did, then that's on me to decide whether or not your brand is worthy to be in the position that I'm putting you into. Do you think you like intuitively just had the these types of thoughts or was there some people that like taught you to think this way?

I try to every day be better for my own brand. Yeah, but where would that have came from? I don't know. Just do it.

Experience. You've always had that type of Was there any defining moment in your life where you said, "I need to get my [expletive] together" or No, I always just want to be better. Like, you know, to the point like not that it was that bad to be at the bottom. Like I mean, I don't necessarily want to be there.

There's only one person that solves that problem, right? And I constantly think of ways and put yourself next to people, put yourself in certain groups, put yourself around those who want to achieve things. I mean, it's a real simple. People talk about it all the time, right?

You hang around losers, you're a loser. You arrive with an outlaw, die with an outlaw. It's real simple. But that's tough.

That's tough too cuz you I struggle with the idea of like wanting to I like I like to help people um and at times I think it's healthy to uh be a good influence on some other people as opposed to constantly trying to find people that you can No, no, but being a good influence on other people means you find people that want to be influenced. Oh, well, sure. Yeah. That's two different things.

I mean Okay. going up to, you know, a guy that doesn't show up for work every day say, "Man, let me help you out." And he goes, "Yeah, that'd be great, dude. Can you give me $20?"

And you give him $20. Next day he doesn't show up. I mean that to me that's a bad influence. To continue on Yeah, you're But those probably just happen by way of They happen all the time, but that's not the people I hang out with.

Sure, sure, sure, sure. I hang out with people who want to do things. That doesn't mean they have to already have accomplished a lot of things. Yeah, young people I hang out with There's a group of guys that are But you came to do this podcast.

Yeah, I know. See, that's weird. Just cold turkey. Like 15 years younger than me.

16, something like that. There's a group of guys I see they look very similar to the group of guys I hang out with, right? Okay. And they want to do cool [expletive] Yeah.

in life. And they strive to hang out with me and my group, right? And I do the same cuz I want to learn from them. They're a different generation.

They have different thoughts than I got to play to all generations that I do. I think once you decide that once you decide to be your best part of your brand and you make your brand better every day, man, then sky's the limit. I mean, that doesn't mean you're going to make money every day. It's not about Man, you do cool [expletive] and you do it the best you can do, you're going to make plenty of money.

Whatever that number is. You hear that, boys? It's true, though. Just do cool [expletive] man.

Just keep doing it. As long as it's cool. I mean, don't feed something that's dumb. And you know it when it's dumb.

that could potentially even lead to a little bit of money, but I think it'll just be short-lived and it'll be shallow. Yeah, it's not authentic. I mean, I live my life the exact way I lived it for forever, you know? I get a reputation sometimes of being an [expletive] And it's only because I'm focused on my mission.

And those that want to come along with me, I'm going to take care of them the best I can do and do cool stuff for them. Those that want to just talk [expletive] and find some way that I'm a jerk or whatever, like it don't bother me. You know I'm down with it. But way before social media, I've been dealing with it.

Well, you're direct. Which nowadays cuz I get I get the [expletive] thing sometimes cuz I'm pretty direct with people for the most part. And uh Nowadays, that's not that's not taken super well. People perceive that as being an [expletive] But I find like passive-aggressiveness and indirectness is the worst.

Oh, yeah. It drives me nuts. I mean, if you think I'm a dick, I'd rather you just say, "Man, you're a dick." You're a dick.

You're being a dick. And then like let's talk about it. Why do you think I'm a dick? And then let's maybe come to some sort of You hear that or not hang out, which is fine.

Sometimes you just don't get along with certain people. Yeah. I don't feel like you got to get along with everybody. You just can't be mean to people.

I'm not I'm not a mean person. So, for some reason you've perceived me to be mean, I'd like to find that out. Maybe I can work on my brand a little bit. Maybe I'm my delivery is bad for you.

I get it. I can say I'm not afraid to say I'm sorry if I hurt somebody's feelings. But I'm also not afraid to say what I think is right. Sometimes it hurts people's feelings.

Hey, so how did the liquor license thing turn So, this gentleman I called four times. I got a different person every time at the liquor board. And they basically like, "You're toast." And so I got this guy.

He said, "Listen, man." Cuz I was like asking for legal, asking for this. I finally get this guy. He said, This is on You were still having this conversation on Friday?

This So, it's Friday at 4:00. So, my speech to the team was 3:30. And I started on the phone with him at about 2:45. And he stayed on the phone with me, this guy.

I mean, if it's so refreshing that a human listened to my story. And I was very direct. I'm like, you know, this is what happened. This is what happened.

This is what happened. This is what happened. And he's like, "Man, that doesn't sound right. You should have gotten a notification 2 weeks ago."

I said I said, "I promise you I did not get this email." He goes, "Well, can you prove it?" I said, "You tell me what I need to do to prove it and I'll do it. I don't know how you prove I didn't get an email if you're telling me you sent it."

I You know what I'm saying? I mean, I feel like I'm in this weird I said, "Well, what I said, "You sent an email this morning and I got that." And I said, "But it was sent to somebody that we no longer employ. And you should have received a bounce-back email from them."

And he goes, "Well, she did." Cuz he's looking up the officer's account. She did. He said, "Well, then why don't you look back on this day you say you sent it and see if you got a bounce-back email that day?"

Cuz I said, "And by the way, if you did get a bounce-back email when the time you said you sent it 2 weeks ago, why wouldn't you contact us going, 'Hey, we sent you this email and it came right back.'" I mean, like Anyway, he got he dug deeper and I mean, it was amazing how great this guy was. He just stayed with me, be patient. We're on the phone an hour and 40 minutes, dude.

He solved it. At 4:40. He's like, "You've Your license has been renewed." He goes, "I got to tell you, I've only had the uh sergeant or whatever this lady's name is, which I never spoke to her.

He was emailing her and emailing the officer that shut us down and all this stuff. He's like, "I've only seen three reversals in my 10-year career." He goes, "Although I feel like this is very justified." He goes, "It's pretty crazy."

It's like, thank god. But you know, my team never even knew it. You know why? Because you're not going to I'm not going to put that burden on them.

That's my problem to solve. And that's back to the You just got to give everything you got all the time, and most of the time you're going to get good results. I mean, you're going to miss. I mean, dude, people strike out.

That's how it goes. See, that's the type I've noticed, regardless of industry, what you do, business, music, anything. I've always found I've always found like successful people, and it doesn't even have anything to do with money. But usually money follows some level of like a successful endeavor.

Money usually follows it. But successful people that have accomplished things at a very high level, I've noticed you can get those people in a room even if they have really nothing in common, and they're going to get along and really connect. And I've found that like one of the major kind of little threads between all of them is they've done they've done some really exceptional things that nobody will ever know about. And it's almost like you can kind of see it with successful people that they've done stuff where it's like their team didn't know about it.

They've carried burdens and maybe achieved things that no one will ever find out. They've worked really hard at improving certain aspects of themselves that nobody will ever know about. They've put in work like in silence or they've suffered in silence and like suffered on their own. Yeah.

Regardless of if you're like a freaking piano player, an opera singer, or you build restaurants, or you whatever, or you're a surfer. There's a lot to do that, you know, people unfortunately on social media want to show off everything they do. Yeah. And I don't know if that's good or bad.

I mean, I think it plays on people's jealousies and things like that, for sure. Um but you know, to me, man, when I do cool stuff, I like to be with the people that I'm with. That's the whole point. Like it I mean, yeah, is it great to have photos?

You know, now we have videos anywhere you want, all that stuff. All that [expletive] is beautiful for historical reasons. But I think the whole show-off thing to me is just not cool. I mean, show-off is doing it, right?

Yeah. And then that's the thing. I mean, that's the whole gig. I mean, it's like when you go to dinner and people are like, "Oh, man, I was in Mexico.

Look at this." And they get their phone out. They start flipping. And next thing you know, it's like 10 minutes.

"Oh, yeah, I'm going to find it, this fish I caught." You're like, Yeah, it's like, god, dude. Say, man, just tell me the story, bro. Just tell me Yeah, no kidding.

story, man. Was it badass? Was it cool? Did you fall in the [expletive] water?

You know? Yeah, you got nothing. You got nothing else out of that. They don't allow phones for that reason.

At Katarina's, my naughty Italian. Yeah. We put your phone in a bag like you're going to Joe Rogan show. Yeah, it seems common with some of these other It's the best.

I got so much [expletive] for that. No, do you got [expletive] for it? I bet there's some people that loved it. Oh, no, people love it.

But I'm just saying, it became a thing, right? It's this big controversial thing. I'm like, "Is it really that You really can't put your phone down for 2 hours and hang out with the people that you're with?" I'm suspicious that there's people now that go there like that's probably like a definable unique thing about that restaurant now.

It's like the very thing that the very reason why people go. Exactly. The thing that people talk [expletive] about. It's like, lean into it a little bit harder.

And then people are like, "You know what? That's cool." I find that everywhere. Most people are sitting back wondering, "Is everybody else like this?

Is this cool? Okay. All right. Now I like it."

Just pick a path and a purpose and stick to it. It's pretty simple formula for anything. Yeah, easy to say, though. There's a lot of noise There's a lot of noise going on with everyone.

I mean, regardless of if how you decorate your house or the car you drive or how you dress, most people don't make those decisions purely based on whether or not they like it. Well, I mean, in music, think about it. In music, you know, you have a gig and you're playing, you write a couple great songs, and people love the songs. And all of a sudden, you get a little fame, and somebody comes and signs you up, right?

And then you get bigger. And the next thing you know, you got a producer going, "You know, you really should play this." You're kind of like, "I don't really play like that." Like, "Well, but this is what the sound they want."

This is You're like, "Yeah, I know, but I don't I don't really play like that." Well, then ironically, why'd you guys sign me in the first place? like, "I don't want to cut my hair like that." Or I don't want to wear those clothes.

Or I don't But people fold up into that. And next thing you know, their authenticity goes away, and everybody's like, "Wait. What happened to so-and-so?" It's now And then they lose the fans, and it's like, you may get one good song out of it.

Cuz it's like some super poppy song. You know how that [expletive] works. I see it all the time. Well, I've dude, I've been living in that world for a long time of like all my stuff is a little odd and out of the box.

Whether it's music, how I dress, like what I'd like what I'm into. And it doesn't fit into this like categorical freaking this is what And then easily identifiable. Cuz I don't sound like anybody else. I don't write songs like everybody else.

I don't dress like everybody else. There's elements just here and there of how I was raised, but it's a difficult road to go. But I but I find it to be the most rewarding. Cuz also what I've found is people that are fans of whatever you do, um they are probably people that you would get along with.

Like you start to find an audience. They could probably have similar likes, obviously. Or like this Italian restaurant where it's like you're putting up phones. The people that go there are people that want to have like a special experience and experience you know, experience food in a certain way.

You could probably pop around to those different tables and every person you talk to are people that like if you were like you'd probably be friends with them. That too. It's funny, isn't that restaurant as you as they don't have their phones, you know, you're at dinner, you start talking about current events, obviously, or start talking about movie and somebody you know Who's in that movie? Kind of like we're just doing the human design thing, right?

Right. So what I do, I pop my phone out. Sure. Well, you can't do that there.

So what happens is they lean to their neighbor. Ooh. Start a conversation. Ooh.

And Ooh. Do you guys know who was in the such and such movie? And then they're like then they get a conversation going. Next thing you know, these people become friends and they leave dinner and go have drinks at the White Horse.

It's the craziest like old school That's powerful. behavior. Man, I really hope that technology is getting to like a fever pitch where maybe people will consciously it's like the Matrix. Like there will be people that take the blue pill and people that take the red pill and people that don't want to be a part of it and won't participate.

And there are the ones that do. You know, like with the AI stuff. I've been talking about it a bunch with songwriting. Like I think there's a segment of society that doesn't care where their art comes from, their perceived art.

They don't care if it comes from a human or a robot. And there's another segment of society that goes what? you talking about? Yeah.

It's pointless. That's not all it is. Yeah, I write poems all the time and I took a poem and You do? put it to AI music.

Oh, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Which was really cool. Yeah, I you know, because I just want to see what it would sound like.

Sure. And I'd rather have somebody cut the song. Right. Just putting it to music is pretty It's cool, but it takes out it's but And I'd rather give it but what I'm saying is I don't necessarily have not somebody's going to go cut my song, you know?

Well, they're not going to cut the poem. Right? Unless they have music to it. Right.

And then so then an AI program can develop the music, but for songwriting specifically, like part of the human expression is somebody developing the melody and the chord progression. 100%. And so it's like it's taking out that element of human expression. Like write poetry, you know?

Or like or like putting in the time to go meet people. Like if you're not good at uh like developing lyric or uh melodies or chord progressions. It's like even the part of like getting to know some people who are better at Yeah, I know that can do that with the lyrics and [expletive] like that. It's crazy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the AI thing really freaks me out. It should. But I but I think there's people that are going to participate in it and those that won't.

There's people that want to go to a restaurant and just have a conversation and not have their phones. news is I mean if AI's trying to cook, but it can't. Yeah, that's a funny one. That yeah.

I mean it can it can write songs. I'm not saying they're great or good or not good. They can write music. Mhm.

It can't cook. Yep. Well, yeah, I was I was a horseshoer for a long time and like I ain't going to go shoe a horse. No, I don't.

Ain't happening. Ain't happening. Like for 100 years probably. Robot ain't doing that.

No, and nobody's going to write the code for that anyway. You know, like I mean like why would I write There's not enough money in it. Right. Yeah.

It's actually really interesting that Great, you know, cuz there are jobs like analysts, they're screwed. Oh, sure. You know, if you're like a financial analyst, you're like Done. Yeah, you're done.

If you're you know, all that stuff is scaring a lot of people who make a lot of money, you know, these interns and stuff that are coming in, they're trying to learn certain businesses. It's like man, I can't afford to pay you. I just hit this button. Yeah, ain't it funny that some of the some of the jobs and careers that traditionally like American society made the most money, your white collar using your mind.

Yeah. The smart people jobs made the most money in trouble. first ones. And then you're like blue collar working with your hands.

Like a welder and That's why any service business is so good right now. If you if you can own a air conditioning business, dude, you're going to be rich. Yeah. Or electricians or plumbers, I mean all those vocational deals like that nobody knows how to do that [expletive] anymore.

I mean nobody. Yeah. Isn't it crazy? I mean I was in high school, we had to take all that [expletive] I took Yeah, we didn't get any of that.

mechanics, wood shop uh we did like electrical engineering. Like we had to do all that [expletive] in high school. I mean not that I'm saying I'm great at it, but at least I know it. Oh, yeah.

Now I mean people You know, if I had to put a new plug in my house, I can do it. Yeah. You try to ask somebody to do that now, it's like 30. They're like what are you talking about?

You'll kill yourself. I'm like Well, no, man. It's just three wires. You just got to put them to the right thing.

You know? It's crazy. Which might be part of the marketing, too, where it's like you can't do it. You need to hire us.

That's right. It's not a bad idea. That's right. Well, sick, man.

How many are you opening new restaurants now? Just opened a place called that's Stewart's Croquet Club. That's in Fort Worth. That's right.

Badass. Yeah. Small, fun. Uh it's expensive, but it's really tight.

It feels like a really exclusive club even though it's not a membership. Tremendous cocktails, amazing Continental American food. Yeah, and then so besides that, you provide uh catering and service for like all sorts of like huge festivals Austin City Limits, Bonnaroo Enderland a little bit at Lollapalooza. We do some contestations there, too.

Um Two Step Inn. I've been working with C3 and Live Nation for 17 years now. We also own Austin Food & Wine, which just went on sale today, by the way. Oh, wait.

My Food & Wine Festival in Austin just went on sale. Oh, really? Yeah. Where So is that what In Austin in November, first week of November.

just Google like Austin. Well, when does that happen, though? Uh November. No Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. But if we're not on when this airs, but it's um Uh it's a Saturday, Sunday festival and Saturday sold out in 3 hours. It's crazy.

How many tickets would that be? It's 3,800. Oh my goodness gracious. My guy's moving some tickets, dude.

Yeah, it's fun. It's a fun festival. I do this grilling demo to open the festival. 250 people grilling under my direction.

And we have wine and tequila and I mean everybody grills. You have your own grill, open fire. uh It's crazy. It's super fun.

What's the actual dates? November what? 7, 8, whatever that weekend is. Um November 7 and 8.

Is that right? What day is that? Yeah, it's a Friday, Saturday. so it's 8, 9 then.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. I'm going to go.

You should go. Yeah, dude. Get the grilling stuff. We got as of I don't know, as of like 10:00, there's only Well, they went on sale at 10:00.

It's 11:00 now. But Saturday sold out? Yeah, you can buy a weekender ticket. So the day passes are out.

So you can do Saturday You can want to go Saturday, Sunday anyway. And then but the grilling demo's on Saturday and it's a add-on. Um and it'll sell out today. So I'm What was it that you were just talking about where you do like a presentation?

That's what I'm talking about. So it's like 250 people. Imagine it like it's like church. And I'm giving a sermon.

Except it's all about grilling. And so we do an appetizer a steak, two sides and a dessert all on the grill, all over open fire, all at the same time under my direction. It's crazy. It's like a concert.

It's nuts. Oh, so that's another part of technology like um online, social media and being able to make stuff look slick and fancy. Uh I think it might push people back to like live in-person experiences and performances, right? Well, that's how people are making money in music right now.

It's live performances. Yeah, I know. It's crazy, but it man, it happened just like that. I know.

I put out my first record in 2019 and at that point like in a year, I was like making almost as much money uh and just streaming royalties as I was shoeing horses and I was like this is insane. I go I can just sit around and just release music. Think this how they Yeah. Cuz I love the creative process.

It's my favorite part of it. I like performance, but I love creative. Um so when you talk about just putting in the work and the attention will come if you're doing cool [expletive] That's like the story of my life. Like the attention's cool, but like I like doing the actual work when nobody's around.

Um and if the idea that changed like by 2023, 24, we're all talking about AI taking songwriting jobs, which is sad cuz I love the creative part. But it now it's like I pivoted where it's like oh dang, dude, we this is live Yeah, we got to go play. Yeah, we got to go play and perform for people. And I and I don't know how far that's going to go, but that so I mean everybody's betting on the come on that for sure.

I can tell you that. Yeah, yeah, totally. More amphitheaters. Yes.

More I mean more Well, which it's crazy that they saw it coming down the pike. Like we had no idea that's why they were doing it. You know? I mean I even people selling their massive catalogs of music for the last kind of decade where you know, you'd hear like so-and-so sold their catalog for $300 million and I was always like I wonder why, you know?

And then artists are putting out 40 song records and I go why are they dumping out all this and I just thought well, there's a lot of money in streaming. They're just trying kind of money grab. But then you know, with the AI deal, the only way right now to certify organic that you didn't use AI for your music is just if it predated AI. So all the value of all that music just went up exponentially.

Correct. And they knew about it. So it's like oh, that's why kind of another vibe and it's like the Yeah, it's funny. The it's like the farm thing.

So I do a whole one of my deals about on my just thinking deals like talking about farm to table but how Is that the deal you're doing on TikTok? Yeah, where it's like I call it I don't know, I was just thinking. Everybody says their restaurants are farm to table. It's like it's almost a practical impossibility.

I mean you know, they're like oh, yeah, we got our tomatoes from Joe's farm and then we get our beef from Ellie's farm, and then we get all of our cheese from like That'd be a saying you don't get that [expletive] I'm just saying you don't get all of it. Interesting. Oh. You just can't It's just the suppliers doesn't make any sense, right?

You're getting it from Cisco, just like everybody else or Benny Keith is So, most of them are just lying. Well, you know, it's funny is there's no regulations. You can tell your farm-to-table all you want. Whoa.

That's the interesting part about it. That's I mean we try to do it like in LA, one of my restaurants on the west side. We've got 10,000 square feet of gardens, but we can't keep up with the restaurant. We just try to use it, especially items like on pizzas or in a pasta or something like that.

So, when people are like, "Oh, yeah, we get everything." You know, if like my favorite one is like, "Every one of our ingredients comes from Texas." I'm like I mean I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying if that's the truth then your prices are going to be 30% more.

And which we know they aren't. So, here we're back to the square one. I'm like I mean I like I'm not trying to make fun of anybody, but it's like, man, just stop with the half marketing [expletive] Like just be real. Yeah, we buy this here and we buy that there.

I mean, to me the best like there's a guy um Jacques Pépin, one of very famous chef, one of the very first chefs on TV. And all this local food movement came around, which is great. Don't get me wrong, but you know, I mean, you can't grow [expletive] in Texas in July. So, I mean, you know you know what I mean?

Yeah. But Jacques Pépin said it best. He goes, "Look, man, I don't give a [expletive] where you get the carrot from as long as the [expletive] carrot is good." Yeah, I don't I don't worry too much about cuz I'm super into a lot of that stuff, but I don't care that much that it's just like literally from the farm right next to you.

better, right? It's not better cuz it was 20 miles away. What's better is whatever's better. Yes.

Either the tomatoes are great Yeah, and or they're not great. Yeah, even if Benny Keith is delivering your stuff it still came from a farm somewhere. Came from a farm. Yeah.

Right? At some point it was grown on a farm. Generally. Yeah, for sure.

Um and so that's great, you know, but it's like this connotation of what we do in America of what you know, it's like all natural. That's my favorite one. You know, all that kind of [expletive] You're like everything on the planet's natural, otherwise it wouldn't be here. I don't care.

You can combine it into all kinds of [expletive] Yeah, it sucks cuz it comes out of the right place. Oh, no, you want it Yeah, that's right. People want to be part like I mean, organic I think is one you know you know, if everyone knows on your fruits there's a there's a sticker on your fruit. You know, like a pepper.

There's a four-digit code. There's a five-digit five-digit code means it's organic. Three four-digit code means it's not. And three-digit code means it's certain pesticides were used on it.

Now, the media doesn't ever want to tell you that, but they're required by law to put that stick You know how that sticker that it Yeah. annoying ass sticker that you get on a sweet pepper. You're like trying to peel that [expletive] or you cut it. You're like, "Fuck."

Yeah, that's there's a code on there that lets you know actually if it was organic or has pesticides or GMOs. I did not know that. So, on all the organic ones Every piece of every piece of fruit, vegetable that you buy has a code on it. Required.

Now Just nobody talks about it. Right. The Well, yeah, then seafood freaks me out cuz I feel like I've heard that there's even less regulation on seafood. I mean, it's hard to regulate, right?

doing like wild caught or it's like there's Yeah, there's you know, farm-raised isn't usually regulated. I mean, you catch something in the ocean, you catch something in the ocean. Yeah. So Or I found it interesting, too, like you could be in Texas eating a redfish, like a Texas redfish kind of thing, and it's like but that was caught I guess down there, but then frozen and flown up to the market in whatever in the northeast, and then brought back.

Yeah, most people think they're eating unfrozen fish, and that's a false statement. I mean, some of the best tuna in the world you eat at Japanese restaurants is all frozen. have to, right? Well, it kills the it kills any bacteria.

Yeah. I mean, I've been out on a boat, caught a tuna, carved it up, eaten it. I mean, your likelihood of getting sick is very low, but to be sure you don't get sick, you drop it to sub-zero temperatures immediately. It kills all those little parasites that are in there.

And it's easily shipped also, right? And then you let it thaw properly. Beautiful fresh tuna. Yeah, it's just the nuances of some things.

marketing. But America's good at it, man. Real [expletive] good at it. I mean, if there's a place in the world that we can make something that's really shitty be great, it's dead center in this country.

I had somebody tell me that Chilean sea bass was a big marketing thing. Like I guess years back that was considered trash fish, and now Patagonian toothfish is the actual name of it. Okay. Um it's a real buttery fish, and then it got overfished cuz it was cheap.

Yeah. And you know, all the seafood has a lot I don't have a lot of the nuances of seafood as much as I do about beef and Yeah, sure. Sure. Um it's all, you know, marketing positioning cuz sea bass we like the word sea bass, and then Chilean sea bass it's really not a sea bass.

Yeah. That's what we renamed it in America cuz people know sea bass is. Okay. know what toothfish is.

Okay. And so you know you know, black bass is a type of sea bass. There's a wonderful fish from east coast and smaller and they're all kind of the same family. The Patagonian toothfish really is it's a it's a bass, but it's not some of the extreme parts of the category.

Much more buttery, thicker fish and Yeah. Man, you're an interesting guy. Very interesting. I've had an unbelievable time in all like I haven't been to all your restaurants, but like Lonesome Dove I've had some great dinners at Lonesome Dove.

And then the Mexican restaurant have to find it at Lonesome Dove, and you got some issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love that I just love the idea of being able to like sit in a restaurant, see the artwork, and like just see nuances of it, and just look around and know that there was a human behind it that had some thoughtfulness, you know. That's fun for me.

So, I appreciate it. Yeah, man. I've enjoyed it. Yeah, totally, totally.

Thank you for doing this. Yeah, yeah. Of course.