Mike Harmeier

Full episode transcript, auto-generated from the audio and lightly formatted (verbatim, not edited).

With the all sub stages on one side and then like the indoors thing is on the other. Which is I don't mind that because there's a little that bar in the middle. Yeah. And just like a artist hang.

Usually just me and Matt Hillyer getting drunk in there. What a trip that guy is. I love Matt. Only been around him one time and I laughed the whole time.

Yeah. He makes me tired. I have to laughing so much, man. always on like that?

Always. I've never seen him not on. We used to do a thing I don't know who was hosting that. Maybe Edie and Courtney were hosting like the songwriters thing during um COVID.

And it would just be like six screens. And we would go songwriter to songwriter, you know, live stream thing. And at the end of it, like cuz we all mean we're just kind of like the hangout crew at you know, at festivals and stuff. And so we'd have like our own virtual after party after those.

And it would just be Hillyer just riffing for hours on this thing. We'd all We'd all just sit in our little rooms just drinking Wait, y'all were in separate locations? Yeah, like I do it from my house. Everybody do it from their house.

Okay. And then it would just be like, you know, however many songwriters there would be six screens and one guy would play a song and the next guy would play a song and the next guy would play. And they were usually themed like one of them is a Roger Miller night or one of them is a whatever, right? So you learn a couple songs, maybe play one of your own songs.

Uh but as soon as that was over and it ended, we just all stayed on the call. And we'd just for hours just shoot the [expletive] And we laugh cuz we all missed each other so much. Oh, dude. Yeah, weird stuff, huh?

It was cool though. Yeah, Matt's a trip, man. How long you known him? Uh I mean since 2007 or eight probably.

I mean 1100 Springs and Matt Hillyer really like got me into this whole like being able to do it, you know what I mean? They put me on shows constant. We were like we were like-minded. Matt felt that I was chasing the same thing that they were chasing back in the day, right?

And it was like, "Okay, here's some younger guys that understand what" Cuz I was just I was straight honky-tonking at that time, right? So, I mean, I was doing the same gigs that they used to do and all that stuff, so uh we just became really tight, you know, and he would help us out all the time. Yeah. So, did you like a real when you really started playing out in public, was that the first style of music that you went for?

Yeah, it was kind of I mean, it was kind of what I knew. So, like I really I'd done all kinds of stuff. You know, when I was in Houston, I was basically I was just playing blues guitar, had a blues band. Uh when I moved to Austin, I was still kind of I was just a Stevie Ray fan, right?

So, I was just like doing guitar and go to blues jams and stuff down 6th Street when I moved to Austin. And uh but I went there to go to a recording school and learn how to make records. Which is really an excuse for my mom to help me move to Austin, you know what I mean? Go to a vocational school, Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, I started making records at my house and I'd have different like little local bands come in and be everything be punk rock, it'd be soul, it'd be whatever, blues, country. And I started to write more traditional country stuff.

Um I kind of got back into the songwriting and I was back in Austin, so I was doing, you know, I got heavy back into like Jerry Jeff and Guy Clark and stuff like that, started writing some stuff like that. And then started writing just really cliché country stuff. And I would have guys that were coming through the studio, I was like, "Hey, man, I've got a couple songs while y'all are here, you want to just back me up on this song and we'll record this." And I came up with a little EP and it was just four like really cheesy cliche country things.

And I was like, man, let's try to just play some shows. I'll put together a little band. We'll do that. And that's how it became just me chasing down the honky-tonk thing.

And I was like trying to live out this like urban cowboy thing. And that became really hot in Austin at the time. In 2000 or 8, yeah, probably. Interesting.

Yeah, it became a thing where like it was always just like Broken Spoke, you know what I mean? It's like that's where that those acts are. But in that time uh we were playing this place on the drag called the Hole in the Wall. And then that guy started another place called the White Horse, and we started to do all that stuff.

And it's became a really hip thing to do this like throwback country thing, man. And every you know, and it's all it was a lot of covers and [expletive] like that. Um but it even though every rock club in town was doing at least a country night. Like it was like it just became this thing, like a resurgence.

You know, not necessarily in the way of the Willie Waylon outlaw thing, but a resurgence of traditional country music uh that was hubbed in Austin. So right now when everybody's saying like so-and-so's bringing 90s country back, they're bringing 80s country back, and I'm like I feel like in Texas they've been doing that for a long while. that's why that's why I'm like burned on it. Uh yeah.

And like I like I don't like I already did that. For a long time. Yeah, it's like I mean I did years and years and years of you know, doing those songs and covering the Texas dance hall circuit. And I just I've like I said, I burned I burned.

Gosh, doesn't that suck? I guess it's all the trends have always started like that though, where like in the indie underground world you got the guys doing it, and then 10 or 20 years later it hits like a popular Which sucks because Sucks bad. I would be doing really well right now probably if I was doing that. I know.

But you're like to burn out on it. Yeah, I was like I don't want to do that anymore. I said it's not interesting to me anymore. Yeah, I totally get it, man.

It does It does kind of suck though. Fortunately, if I had to pick a type a type of music to get like really popular nationally, at least it's that and not like the bro country kind of stuff. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I don't think it's in a bad place.

It's just not for me currently. Isn't that just timing? Yeah, it's just timing. That's so bizarre.

Yeah. But hey, man. I already did it. Well, well, so but how do you think your stuff now and your work now diff- I mean, I don't find it to be other than maybe how you label it.

I don't find it to be like totally different than that stuff. No, I mean, it's still I'm still working towards something else. You know what I mean? Like it's just It used to have some walls on it.

You know what I mean? It was like I needed to stay in this vein and I was really chasing this thing. And like everything that I was writing was for the show, for a record that was like okay, I want it to sound like this. It was just very idealistic about where I was trying to go with it.

And I think now the abandonment of those things is where it's at. I'm just going to let it go where it where it wants to go. You know what I mean? And now it's like a Before, like I said, you know, it was kind of a recording project, right?

So, I mean, everything was just my idea. Uh let's execute this idea. And now it's much more collaborative with like the guys in the band and like, you know, we're just making music that we want to make. Um with no genre-specific oriented idea, anything like that.

It's just a fluid motion forward. Um whatever it sounds like in the studio is what it sounds like. Yeah, do you find yourself ending up back at some influences and maybe some sounds that were initially what really got you into music. Like you had said you played a lot of blues.

Yeah, I mean and well, I naturally do that. I can't stop doing that. Okay. So like right now um I'm playing a lot more guitar in the show than I have in the past years.

Uh me and my guitar player Catlin are kind of trading off a lot more guitar solo stuff. And he's like a real flat picker chicken picker, you know, thing like that and it always worked for the band. Um but I always just I'm playing pentatonic blues riffs, you know, what I mean? I'll play the same riff 30 times in a night.

You know, what I mean? So I mean I just kind of fall into that, right? But it's also shaped a little bit of what the band sounds like now, right? Cuz now I'm playing for the record, I don't think that's all that you're doing.

That's very like humble of you, but I'm doing that. You're not only doing that. It feels that way to me. I've watched you play, so It feels that way.

I feel like I'm trapped, you know, what I mean? I got I got when I was taking guitar lessons, man, once I got to play pentatonic scales and I could play Stevie Ray licks, I was like I'm out. This is good. I'm I can quit now.

Hey, did you Did you ever feel like when you Was there stuff that you told yourself uh if I learn this, like I'll be blown away if I can learn how to play this. And I will just be I'll be happy. Like I might not ever have to learn anything ever again. And then you learn it and it's almost like kind of takes away the magic of the song a little bit.

You ever felt like that? For sure. I don't I can't listen to anything that I used to like play along with when I was a kid. I'm like I don't man, that just puts me back in this place.

I was like I don't I was like yeah, I don't I'm not interested in that song anymore. Like I know how to play that solo. And uh yeah, it cheapens it a little bit. I That suck?

Yeah, it does suck. It's fun to learn it and then once you learn it you go, oh, that's what's happening? Yeah, I spent most of my career ruining music that I really like. Dude, yeah, that really hits home.

It really hits home. I can't sound like anybody. Which some people say that's a good thing, but Yeah, that is good. It's weird when you start, all you're doing is trying to search what you sound like.

Yeah. And you and then once you do, then it's almost a little frustrating you can't ever sound like some of your heroes ever again. Yeah, I tried to do that thing with the you know, maybe it was late in the game for us to do that Gary Stewart record. But like I was a huge Gary Stewart fan.

I still am a Gary Stewart fan. But like making that record, I felt like obligated to try to really mimic a lot of those things, you know? Oh, yeah. wasn't really in my wheelhouse, I think, at the time.

Uh I'm proud of that record and I think it sounds great and it would did what it what it set out to do with it. Um but yeah, it's just not I can't find that anymore, you know what I mean? Hard It's hard to do. So guitar playing was kind of the first love and then it was more of a songwriting thing?

Yeah, I like when I was a kid, I mean, I'm a child of like, you know, late '80s, early '90s country radio, right? I just like whatever was on the damn radio. So like I knew all these The reason we did all these cover songs and [expletive] was because I just made a list of every song I knew every word to, right? Cuz I used to sing all these songs when I was a kid.

And then I got into guitar when I started taking lessons at like eight, like that. And then that really changed my path to a more guitar-driven thing and I wasn't writing at all, you know? I didn't really start really getting into writing until Austin in 2000. I started to really try to hone a writing skill.

And that would have been when you were recording and you just wanted to have some Yeah, I needed I needed material to record and I wanted to record at my house, you know, and that's kind of birthed that whole songwriting thing. Interesting though that you didn't go for like bluesy songs. Yeah, well, I mean But at that time that was like kind Somebody else Somebody else wants to write a blues song and I can play over it, that sounds great. But I just that's but I just didn't write that.

And I because it wasn't the songs that I knew, you know. I was playing blues because I wanted to play guitar. Uh when I was singing songs with the radio, that's I wrote that way because that's I knew how to write that, you know what I mean? I knew how to say what those people were saying.

Um I didn't really know how to say, you know, I mean, I can sing the same lick, you know, sing the same rhyme over and over again like a blues song all the time, but um I had, you know, I wanted to tell a story, right? You know, it's more of a I just more into that kind of songwriting. Yeah, funny that what did that like country style of guitar playing not hit you quite as hard? It just I never I never was good enough at it.

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like those guys are great. It's wicked hard.

Yeah, it's like I can't That's why I hired the other guy. You know what I mean? He had a telecaster and could play all those licks like that. You know, he was playing like Brent Mason like licks and stuff.

And like I just never got that far, you know? So that really wasn't I had to get somebody else to do that part. You know? And I'll just focus on making up some.

Yeah. Yeah, I always find it fascinating how that stuff works out. Some of the things like you think are your greatest influences and things that you might sound like at some point, at least in my experience, I find myself the further I go like I get farther and farther away from all my initial influences. That's Yeah, there's some quote about that.

It's like when you're young in your career, you really chase your influences, and then as you get older and you get more developed, you like run from them. And like that has definitely Yeah, but it's almost subconscious. Yeah. You write I don't intend I mean I have everything is pretty subconscious for me.

It's like I just I'm just going to let it go the way it's going to go. I don't I've learned I don't really have any control over that. Was there a certain point in your life that you start to let go more of that? Yeah, I mean all of my time in Austin, really.

I mean it was just I was I was just exposed to more stuff. Uh listening to new things. I think a big changing point for me um I remember sitting in this my very first apartment in Austin and my old drummer, his aunt had given him this DVD uh Wilco I'm trying to break your heart DVD about them making the Yankee Hotel Foxtrot record. And I was making records at the time.

I was in this studio school. It was the most like fascinating thing to me to watch these guys make this record. And I had no idea I didn't know who Wilco was or anything like that or Jeff Tweedy anything like that. And uh it really just changed my whole perspective about how to make records and how to write songs and how to create.

And uh it was a game-changer. I mean I like overnight flipped my perspective about how I wanted to do the whole thing. How did you want to do it before that? I didn't know.

It was just like it was go in the studio and record a song, write a song, go in the studio and record a song. It was not really I didn't think anything about the artistry of being in the room and developing a song and changing things up and trying things in other different ways, you know, try one song 20 different ways, things like that. That just wasn't I didn't hadn't occurred to me. I needed someone to show me that.

And once I saw it that's became what I was chasing. Dang, but that was pretty early on Yeah, that I mean that was uh '03 or '02 or '03 something like that. What a blessing that is to figure that out early. It was great, man.

Well in some ways. Yeah. Cuz it kind of up Pandora's Box probably a little bit. What we said before, it ruined it took me off the path of where it would be just fine now.

Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. But yeah, some people just take such I try to keep it simplistic, but some people take such a simplistic approach that And yeah, you'll strike gold sometimes, but I just can't work that way. I have to tinker.

There's a lot of settling I feel like that happens that I don't Settling. appreciate. That's the way it feels to me is settling. yeah, it's like man, that could be so much better.

Or at least try. I over I over analyze most things that I hear. You know what I mean? It's like oh, I would have done Cuz I come in now I come at it as like a from producer's standpoint, too.

It's like oh, there's a better way to do that or a better way to say that or a better way to execute this or You know what I mean? It's just another approach that I feel like was never even exhausted. You know? Yeah, it is interesting to see some of the decisions people come up with.

That's the fun part of analyzing it. Some people take that as being super judgmental. You can still like something and enjoy something and still be critical of it. Yeah.

I'll be all the things. I'll be critical, judgmental, I don't whatever. I mean Yeah, they're not mutually exclusive. for sure.

You can still be supportive of it, too. Yeah, for sure. I got no problems with anybody that's like doing what they want to do and happy with their art and happy with their career. That's awesome.

I too am those things. Yeah. And some people would say those things about me. Well, there's probably songs you could go listen back to of yours that you'd be like, what why?

Or what about this? What do you I try I try not to try not to listen to those things. Well, yeah, I wasn't trying to be accusatory. I have the same thing.

So it's only you. It's only you, Mike. If we didn't have that then we wouldn't really be doing this for the right reasons, man. I think you have to like know that you're evolving and advancing.

Getting better. I'm envious at times of people though that like Uh I'm a little bit envious um because I just I love being in it for the process, yeah. But I'm envious at times of people that can just like They're like, "Nah, it's good. It's fine."

I'm like, "What?" That must be nice. I Yeah, I don't have I didn't get that one. Yeah, me either.

Skip that. I wonder why. I wonder if that has something to do with like upbringing or something. Did you have a big family?

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Concerts following each night. Red Shahan with Eric Willis kicking it off on Thursday. Giovanni and the Hard Guns with Claire Hinkle Friday night. And Silverado with Jared Morris closing it out Saturday.

Get your tickets now on Prekindle. Brought to you by Gallaway Pro Rodeo. Um no, I mean my parents split early. I live with my dad.

Um sister kind of lived with my mom. Um it was kind of separated. Um but my grandmother lived like on the same property as us. I mean, I spent a lot of time with my grandparents.

Um my dad was not really involved in uh creating music. Uh but working for the Houston Rodeo like booked a bunch of stuff. I was surrounded by a lot of musicians when I was a kid. Um kind of Texas icon guys, Gary P.

Uh Rusty Wier. Kind of got Johnny Bush. Those guys were like always at like at the house. No [expletive] Uh so like, you know, sitting at the kitchen table with like Johnny Bush playing fiddle and part of my growing up.

Uh Brian Black, Clint's older brother, lived at my house when I was all through high school. So, lived there. He had a tour bus outside. I was like, "Oh, this is like an achievable uh career."

is totally normal. Yeah. I was like, "Okay, this guy's like, you know, I mean, his brother is, you know, a country music superstar, let's say, right? Um and he's a guy out of Katy who has a tour bus and plays the bar circuit.

Um and makes records and stuff. And I was like, "Oh, okay." But not anybody outside of that realm would know him. It kind of changed that changed my perspective pretty early on about how, you know, a career can be a career without being, you know, Amal Heights, you know, a big thing.

That's tough, though. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I watched I watched it.

Yeah. And but that was cool. I mean, that was that was great for me cuz I, you know, I would get up on stage and sing with these people, you know, and even perform with them. And uh that helped me to get started really early on that side of it, on like performance side of it.

Cuz I would sing with them, sit in with them. And then by the time I was 14 or so, I had like a standing gig, you know, at like the local bar that me and my dad would go to. Damn. So, you didn't have to work through like any real stage fright kind of Not really.

I never really had that, yeah. I was doing 4 hours when I was 14, just whatever songs I had learned that weekend through lessons. Damn. Yeah.

So, did you do anything else or is that pretty much it? That's pretty much it, man. I mean, through high school and stuff, I had a blues band and we would play some clubs and barbecues and like, you know, Houston radio has a big World Champion Barbecue Cook-Off every year and we would my dad was part of a one of the tents there, all right? So, we would play that all the time.

Um yeah, I mean, I pretty much did that all the way through that's how I got through high school. When I moved to Austin, I just continued to kind of do that. Uh I had some odd jobs. Work working like hotel fixing toilet.

Um That's where the real songs are written. Yeah. Yeah. Raining down mold in a hotel room.

Oof. But there was some nasty [expletive] huh? Oh yeah, it was a great hotel. Where was it?

It was like North Austin. I can't remember It was called the NAP. I don't remember what that stands for. North Austin Plaza.

Um Yeah, I had a bunch of friends that were working there. The guys I was living with were working there. It was all just a we just hung out. It's a hotel and we just did Yeah.

Thinking about the gigs we were going to play that night. Yeah, it's funny like early 2000s, that would have been uh I mean the blues were not a thing then. No. And then oddly enough, the only way they really got into like the pop sort of zeitgeist, I guess, would have been Mayer.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, and I was a big Mayer I was a big Mayer fan. You were?

Yeah, man. Yeah. I love John Mayer. I saw John Mayer uh when I was in high school still, like this is like 2000 2001.

Um I drove up to Austin. dude. That's like right at the beginning. He was playing acoustic by himself.

out his first music in like '99? Yeah, I mean it was like it was like Room for Squares tour, right? Like it was just him acoustic opening for somebody. Dude, did I find a Mayer buddy?

Yeah. Hell yeah, dude. I always tippy toe a little bit when I bring it up. I tippy toe.

all in. Let's do it. Well, it's funny when I was like probably 10 12 years ago, uh bringing him up, people just would wince. Not me, man.

Oh, yeah. We were all in We were all in, dude. Me and a bunch of my bunch of my boys. And like that's another one I mean just kind of saying that made me realize that's another thing that really helped kind of spur the songwriting thing for me.

Cuz Mayer was kind of like I had Here's a blues guy. He can play. And he's like writing great songs, and he's picking this awesome guitar. I was like, this is This is a thing?

This is People are doing this? Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, kindred spirits on that for sure. really didn't occur to me until you just said that really probably was a big changing point for me, too.

That's interesting. I feel like he had a massive If you were a white kid in the 2000s playing an acoustic guitar, I find it hard to believe Yeah. played any guitar. I find it hard to believe Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know, when I saw him acoustic, I was blown away because I mean, he's an incredible acoustic player, and the songs are great. Um and then when he you know, you go further, uh and then he's doing you have the trio stuff and all that, man. And like uh here's another like-minded Here's another Stevie Ray head, too, right? So, like I you know, I mean, this is like this is all kind of aligning for me.

I had never had and will never have a problem with John Mayer. Yes, that's awesome. Um yeah, cuz in the country world, even when I first started playing like in the more of the country stuff, uh people were just not They weren't super hot on it. Yeah.

Which is just interesting to me. Yeah, the people are fighting that pretty hard. Yeah. There's a lot of closeted John Mayer fans out there.

Yeah, why? It's so goofy. Well, here's fun I was talking to somebody about it the other day, and like he and that actually kind of bugs me cuz Mayer he kind of like gets a little awkward about Your Body Is a Wonderland. He kind of makes fun of it a little bit.

And somebody was like, "Well, he knew like the Wonderland guy or whatever." And I'm like, "You ever like really listen to that song?" Cuz I was I was like, "I think I don't think he gets enough credit as being like a great lyricist." Uh And they're like, "Well, name one song."

So, I actually brought up Your Body Is a Wonderland. And they're like, "What are you talking about?" And I was like, "Go read through that song. Read through some of those lyrics.

I know it's a love song, so it's going to be inherently like if you're not into the lovey-dovey stuff, it's going to be goofy. Look at any love song." Uh but he's got some absolute fire lines in there. I'm You want to I mean, talk about one of the best like maybe debut records of an artist ever?

Insane. It's pretty damn good. then like that song specifically, like try like when you first start playing guitar and singing, like try playing that and singing at the same time. Like it's only this little three-chord Neon and sing at the same time.

that's a totally different beast. But then Your Body Is a Wonderland goes into this like crazy jazzy breakdown and like for the bridge, and it's like way too long, and they just like groove on this like wild jazz chord. let who let that guy produce that Yeah. Like don't tell me that stuff's like not good.

I get it. It might not be for everybody. It's a little bit Now that I've gotten more into rock and roll and stuff like that's maybe a little bit like more distorted. course, but it's also uh the age, you know what I mean?

Like he's writing those things because that was what, you know, that's the thing that He was like 18. I was experiencing those things at the same time, right? Like all the things he's writing about, everything hit pretty close to home to me. We were pretty similarly aged and like playing the same stuff.

Uh it just it hit. And as I was saying, with me and like all of my friends, we got we got that. That all that stuff clicked. And it was so fresh.

You're coming out of grunge and a lot of that '90s rock. Yeah. And then you get something really soft like that, but still all the boxes, man. Yeah.

So, so you said you went and saw him in 2000. That was your original story. Yeah, 2000, 2001. I saw him at Stubb's inside.

He opened for someone. I can't recall. Uh Was that for City Limits? No, it was just Oh, okay.

It was just a show. a show. Okay. I think he went on tour with O.

A. R. for a little bit. Whoa.

Like opening for them, I think. That's a cool one. that. I've seen him a few times at Stubbs in Austin around that time period.

One of them he was inside. I can't remember who he was with. One time I did see him open outside for OAR. Um I've seen him quite a few times.

Yeah, me too. I've seen him quite a bit. I think I've seen him uh not every tour. Cuz I got pretty jazzed whenever he started doing that more folky Americana thing.

Right. That was that was very cool. But it actually it opened up my mind um to the idea of how people perceive music in a big way. Uh cuz like when he went and did the folky country stuff I observed myself personally as kind of like when he came out in like a buckaroo hat and like wearing like a Navajo rug and stuff I was like what's going on here?

Right. Uh that I liked the music. I loved the music and I loved the songs. But it hit me as inauthentic because he like played dress-up with it.

Which is something that I've always kept in like if you'd have walked out and been playing these super folk songs and like looked like the exact same dude that I come to know. Um I would have liked it more. Yeah. It would have made less sense from a branding standpoint I guess if you wrote it down on paper, but Yeah, I think his career exploded pretty quickly though at that time.

And maybe you know, there's maybe some identity crisis things going on there probably. I can't even imagine. I think like Did you ever have that DVD of any given Sunday? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. It's like that was like peak Mayer for me. You know what I mean? It's just like him in a t-shirt, cargo pants.

Yeah, man. It's like ripping guitar solos. Everybody's singing along in some college town. Yeah.

It's perfect. peak was that Where the Light Is one. Oh yeah, for sure. That was just insane.

And then you play all three of those sets. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting with stuff like that. I like to think that I'm just I can see between the lines on everything and I don't get caught up in the marketing and like it's [expletive] Like I get caught up in it just like anybody else.

Prime example would be when Sturgill came out. Mhm. One of the things I loved I loved all of his songs and everything. Uh but one of the things that really drew me into him was the fact that he just get up there in his little New Balances.

He looked like he was like a middle school soccer coach or something. You know? Oh, yeah. He has a little ball cap on.

Like he didn't have a freaking Nudie suit like he didn't look like the music sounded. Yeah. Right? definitely a time where I was going to cop that whole thing.

Okay. And I was like wearing the Wrangler denim shirt and the and the jeans and the New Balance. And just like cuz the whole thing his deal is like well Willie does the same thing, you know what I mean? Yeah.

I okay. This all makes sense to me. That's when I was like okay, I don't care. I was not going to I was not going to do the dress up anymore.

Yeah. Like I kind of abandoned the cowboy hat thing for a while. You know what I mean? To whatever detriment that may have Yeah, I don't know.

But I mean I still I still feel that way. I don't I don't do the dress up as much as I I know, but I guess the thing is like if you feel like wearing a hat, just like wear one. That's exactly where I'm at right now. Yeah, wear one.

If you don't, don't. Yeah. That's where I'm That's where I'm at. It's like I pick my moments.

It's like did the Opry a couple days ago, wore the hat. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. You know, I might wear it tonight.

It's a rodeo. Which is insane that's that's the first time you played the Opry? That was my third. Oh, okay.

Yeah. So did you play the Opry already with the Moon Pies? I did. The first time was Moon Pies.

Second time I think we had just rebranded. Oh, okay. Right after. So y'all have done it twice now?

Yeah, so that was Yeah, the Moon Pie one was the debut and we did like steak night and stuff like that and then can't remember what I played the second time. Third time uh Yeah, I don't have steel player anymore. We brought keys. Um It was interesting.

I didn't I wasn't nervous about the third time at all. Like the first time I was terrified. Uh second time I was like, "Okay, I think I get the gist of it, but what am I going to play? How am I going to keep this fresh?"

And the third time I was like, "I'm just going to have fun." It gets a little bit It gets a little bit easier. It's still It's heavy every time, right? I mean, the first time I called it.

Oh, dude, it's Dude, they make it freaking It's tough, man. It's Like bigger than your wedding day. Here you go, man. You then you got 10 minutes.

You get out there and do You know, you got to sound You got a line check real quick. It's very rigid, you know what I mean? Well, don't they make They make you do all those spots about like What does this mean to you? they definitely milk you for content when you're there.

Uh but it's man, it's a lot of fun. It's just Yeah. I mean, it's a radio show. You know what I mean?

And I think you start to understand that the more you do it and it just If you work it like everybody's there to work and create this radio show all together, right? Uh and you know, you and the crew and all the other artists are just part of this bigger picture of what this night's going to look like. And you just find your spot. You sit in there and you go and do your thing.

What songs did y'all play? How many did you get? You do three pretty much every time. It's like 15 to 20 minutes of time that you have.

Um I did a new song blues solo? Yeah, pretty much. I would do that. Just once.

Maybe I'll do that next time. Yeah, do it this time. If it goes bad, just blame it on me. Yeah, for sure.

Oh, yeah. From here on From here on out. Yeah. It's cool though, man.

I mean, it's I definitely like I said, I think I'm feeling freer with what to do there. Like I played a brand new song there that we're going to probably record next week. Uh just cuz we could. And I think it's a cool story, you know what I mean?

I played this song for the first time on the Opry. Um we've been doing this bit. I have a song on the last record that Brent Cobb sings on, but uh Brent Cobb does not tour with me. All right?

So, I've had my tour manager out there. can't get Brent Cobb to get Brent Cobb to just That's weird. What is that? That's so [expletive] terrible.

So, I have him at tour manager come out and he sings the Brent Cobb part and it's a good bit. Like, it's it really works. People love it. People went crazy the first time we did I was like, I'm going to do that on the Opry.

And so, I did like the first song I did was road crew and uh just kind of set up my bit, right? I was like, "Oh, speaking of road crew." Then he comes out and brings me another guitar. So, it was your tour manager at the Opry, too?

Yeah, I put him on I put him in the circle. So, you couldn't get Brent Cobb No, I didn't even I didn't even call him. Oh, okay. didn't even call him.

It's Brent's fun. Yeah. But you never know uh if Brent's going to show up or what's it what Roger. Roger.

Well, actually it's cooler that you got your freaking You said it's your TM? Yeah. Yeah, he got to be up on stage at the Opry. That's crazy.

So, you never have to pay him again, right? pretty much what I'm working out with him right now. We're in negotiations. But definitely less.

Definitely less. Yeah. He's taking sil- silver He's getting paid in Silverado coin now. right.

Yeah. You guys have a crypto, don't you? I'm thinking about making challenge coins. What's that?

It's like uh you know, like um military has these things, right? So, like if you we have them as Fernet coins. Uh and if you go down to the bar and you like, "I want a shot of Fernet, right?" I throw my Fernet coin out.

Fernet? Fernet. Oh. We'll get into that.

Oh, you got a challenge coin right there. You put it down and if the other guy doesn't have his coin, he has to buy the drinks. Oh, so everybody's just got to have it on them. You got to have it on you.

It's like an It's like an AA coin. Yeah, except the other Yeah. Oh, dude, you got to drink. I'm sorry, dude.

You're screwed, man. Yeah, I don't know how it works if somebody throws an AA coin down and I throw my challenge coin down. What It'll happen one day. Dude, what's the most annoying question that you've gotten about y'alls name change, branding change?

All of All of them. Or like what it Okay, I'll tell you one. Are you okay? This happened to me sometime on this last tour.

Uh a chick walks up to us at this festival. It's like a biker rally. And Where at? Uh it was in somewhere in California, Southern Cal.

It was in Silverado, California. That's perfect. Yeah, it was perfect. Uh she walks up and grabs us.

We're just walking through the festival. And she says, "I have to ask you something." It's like, all right, here it comes, right? And she said, "Why did you change your name from Mike and the Muffin Tops?"

And we were like, "Exactly." She was actually asking why. a real thing. That is She didn't even Didn't know the original name.

And didn't Like if it was that name. Yeah, still was curious. Like was still curious. Like you know, just try to answer that question for yourself first.

Really? You can't come up with anything. Did you think any of this out? My god.

That was a good one. That was a classic. But I mean we got I mean I get it every day. You know, and I get complainers.

I get people that are like, "Ah, it's a good move." Oh, that's funny. Why would somebody complain about it? Everybody complains about it, man.

They got you know, cuz they're so attached to whatever they thought that is or whatever. It meant so much to this stupid name. It was like the identity that they had for us. And now that it's not that name, it can't be the same thing.

When ironically, I mean I venture if the only reason I'm speculating on this is because I think about if I had like a band and came up with a band name, it would It would either The only way I would put a ton of thought into it is if it was like a real goofy name. You know, and I would have thought a lot about something just funny. Otherwise, it probably would have been something that I came up with relatively quick. Yes, I had both of them.

Okay. Right. So, it's funny that somebody gets so attached to something that maybe was just something you're like, it's a name. Like, I just came up with a name.

Yeah, I remember. I mean, I was like I was like showering and like somebody was still recording. We were making the EP. I was like, I'm just going to call it this cuz I have a gig at the hole in the wall next week and I need to put something on the marquee.

It's so that's the thing that everybody gets what it was. How did you change it? Yeah, and then 20 years later they're like, man, that was great. No, man.

I just you know, at the time I didn't know what it was, right? I had four songs, you know? And we weren't good at it. Well, that goes to show you that the meaning of something actually comes from the work you put into it not just like what you call it.

That's what I think. Yeah. That I agree. Shows you how powerful branding and marketing is, you know?

Yeah. I mean, but I think that you give it a little bit of time and it'll all be it'll all be passe. You know, it's like I don't think Oh, has that been something that like was has like caused Uh I mean, just some minor uproar on the internet and you get an occasional [expletive] at a bar, you know, that's going to say something to you about it. Um you know.

Hey, man, I loved your old name better. I miss I miss those guys. I was like, we're right we're right here. This is us.

You're at our show right now. We're about to play all those songs. Did you even listen to the music? I mean, that's that was a big deal.

It's like, if you were here because we were called that, then you were here for the wrong reason. So, see yourself out. I That's probably something that's existed forever though. People just like listening critically.

I sound like a broken record too where I get at this point in my life, I kind of giggle at it, but the idea of stuff being country or not country, like Oh, yeah. I've talked about it a bunch, uh, where even stuff that's considered like the most country right now, like most people don't realize a lot of those records are cut with musicians from like metal and rock. Yeah. The way that they actually mix them, like for instance, Cody Johnson records, like those drums are like Nickelback drums.

Yeah. Just is what it is. And they're like considered like the most country, like this is country. And then if somebody were to do like a drummer anyway.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Where he comes from. I'm not even saying it's a bad thing.

And that's on and that's on the show. That's not even on the record, you know what I mean? Like Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always that way.

Right. You know what That's my only reason saying that at times is just to push back against people that just get so opinionated when they really don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, most people that are vocal about those things do not know what It's like I like your old name. That music was better.

It's like it's the same music. Yeah. Like have you actually listened to the like sonically the way this stuff sounds? But I don't know.

I maybe I'm I think I'm being hard on people though, expecting them to listen in that way. I mean, that's why we do it. It's like I don't fault people for if they judge, like let's say us by our band name or our genre or whatever they want to do. However they feel about us is however they feel about it.

And that's fine with me. I mean, they're still coming to the show. Uh, I don't know why the need is to voice that opinion so heavily to me, you know what I mean? And to tell me, like, "Oh, well, you're not as country as you used to be."

Or, "You're I liked your old name better." Or, "Where's the steel guitar?" Or whatever. It's like I mean, I understand you have an opinion and you're passionate about, you know, the music and what we're doing.

Um Do you address any of that stuff on stage? I try to stay away from it. I mean, I'm not scared of any of it. It's like I don't I don't I'm not embarrassed or running from the old name or our history as a honky-tonk band or everything we've done in the past.

It's all part of this linear story, this history of our group, right? Of these guys. So, I don't need to necessarily address it because it's going to continue to evolve and do that. I mean, I would be addressing it for the rest of my career.

You know what I mean? It's like there's going to be changes that continue to happen. Um so, I don't see why I would want to If you if you if you engage the conversation too much, it'll be you know, it'll just keep pushing. Okay.

Yeah. You don't think it you don't think it's like the 8 Mile thing where if you just come up with all the things people are going to say about you before they say them. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Like say something to me that I haven't said like 2 in from the mirrors type. Yeah, well, what I do is try not to say anything on stage at all. I come from the dancehall circuit where it was dead air was bad, right? So, like it's just Well, dead air, yes.

course. But like I would just rather just not have an opinion like Did you hear for the music? We're going to escape all those other things. And we're just going to play song and we're going to try to just fit as many songs into this night that you're here to see this show as we possibly can and then we're going to leave and go do it somewhere else.

And then we'll hope to see you back next time. Yeah. And you don't know anything about what I'm thinking. Or I don't know need to know what you're thinking.

As long as you're having a good time, we're all good. Yeah, I've never been good at the mystery thing. It's like let me tell you everything. I've never been good at that.

I like to I like the mysterious. I know. It's like well, yeah, perfect. You're on a podcast for an hour.

Very mysterious. I'm not giving too much. How much did you make after taxes last year? Did somebody ask me that?

Or what were we There was another time somebody said Do you know Ross Cooper? Yeah. Yeah, he's a funny cat. Yeah.

What did he say to me? He said something about like Something about like take home or He Oh, yeah, he just like it was like at a like a random point in the conversation. I was like in the middle of saying something. And he's like, "Did you do your taxes this year?"

It's like after net of expenses, what did you make this year? So, that was so funny. Not enough is the answer to that question. Yeah, I don't know.

Some people get freaked out about uh I think that's changed with generations. Uh A lot of people used to think questions in general used to be like kind of rude. Like just to get that vibe from people. Like when I say used to, when I was growing up, like when I was a kid.

It'd be like, "Hey, hey, enough with the questions." You know? And but they were like pretty good questions. I was just inquisitive.

They weren't I don't think they were just annoying. "Why are you doing that?" You know? They were like pretty phasing you.

You're still You're still doing it now. I know, I'm still annoying. It's just like But now I'm just forcing people to do it on camera so they can't get away from me, you know? Perfect.

Yeah, exactly. But I remember it used to be like oh yeah, you shouldn't ask people that. There was a lot of that. You shouldn't ask people that.

And then now I feel like in society we've gotten to a point where Oh, I'm curious if it's because of the internet and like so many so much of people's lives is out there where it's hard to hide from the world right now. And I wonder if it's in a good way, it's made people kind of open up a little bit. You can't You just can't hide things quite as much. And the idea of being like, "Uh, that's too many questions right there."

It's like, "Well, who are you? Why are you I talked that better when it was more closed off. Really? When it was more closed off?

Yeah. I don't think I need I would have it all the time and everybody's opinion on anything. I'm just Like I said, I'm talked about it earlier. I'm staying my lane, right?

I mean, I'm not on the socials, right? I don't read those things. I don't engage those things. If my wife runs all the socials, if she's if she feels like she needs to engage somebody, she will engage them.

Well, but what I'm saying is maybe it filtered into just social interactions. Like you're just sitting at a bar and you ask guys some questions. Nowadays, it just seems like to me they're not quite as off-put by the questions. Yeah, well, I think maybe the questions have gotten a little bit I don't know, angrier or something, maybe.

More loaded. Nowadays? Nowadays. In what way?

Just don't like questions. Well, what do you mean by question? Are you saying like just a genuine question? Like, "Hey, where are you from, man?"

No, those are fine. Yeah. But just like anything deeper than you know I mean, like I just I try to stay pretty private about, you know, most things. You know what I mean?

And even in a career way and all these things that we were talking about people questioning about now. It's like, I mean, that's our prerogative and that's you know, that's the things that we think about and um it is something I know how to talk about, you know? Um so, I'll answer questions about our career stuff to people, but uh it always just seems so loaded to me these days. Oh, yeah.

like they're looking for an answer. They're looking for an explanation from me. I explain yourself. You know what I mean?

That's kind of what I feel behind the question. what I feel like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can feel you on that.

Well, yeah, the social media thing. Well, some people I it seems like they're trying to act like they're so open and like they're an open book, but it's kind of a facade. They're acting like, "Oh, I'm so quirky and look at me. I'm just in front of the camera."

And right. And it's like, "Well, that's not really you and what you got going on. Yeah. I show like very specific parts of my life I'm open about.

Like I don't include my wife on a ton of stuff. Right. Like it's just I just got to like a segment of my life that's like this is private. I don't like to talk about money.

That's also a thing that I feel like it's gotten way more normal. Is the way I was raised is like you're not like the idea of asking somebody what they make. How much you get paid for that or like that type of stuff? I have heard those questions more often now.

Yeah, I feel like that does get asked a lot. I think I think even artists more freely talk about that more than I think they used to, which I really appreciate. Weird. I think it's weird.

Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, or um Yeah, I've just noticed like even just like going I like to golf and I've just noticed some guys talking about just like what they make. Oh, I did this project the other day. I'm like, I don't remember being in quite that or if somebody did do that everybody around them would be like, "What are you Shut up."

Yeah. What are you talking about that for? Yeah, what are you talking about? Are you trying to tell me how much money you make?

So, yeah, in the same sentence as saying I think it's cool that people have become more open. I think it's kind of lame that they've become more open, too. Yeah, and I'm over it. I've dude, I there's a huge part of me that just wants to disappear and not and just be able to put out music, but there's such a Now we're talking.

Yeah. It's a part of it, too, that's cool, though, being able to connect like if you can actually connect through video. I don't find it that much different than MTV in the '90s doing a Tik Tok if you do it in a cool way. Yeah.

I struggle with the whole aspect of engagement and social media presence and stuff like that. Just cuz it's not in my it's not in my wheelhouse. I'm not like that great at it. And I'm not as up as what I should know about, you know, and how to and how like the trends of it and it just comes off to me like I don't know what I'm doing and I'd rather just stick to just what I'm good at and what I know and what I came here to do.

You know, I just want to write and play. And I tried to compartmentalize all those things as much as I can, you know what I mean? Like I stay off of the social thing. I don't really engage that.

Um you know, I don't I don't participate as much just because I try to stay try to stay hyper focused on my own personal direction, you know what I mean? So that just takes time away to me and cloud is that's just noise to me. No. Feel like I don't I don't feel like I mean, we have to do it.

It's part of the business. You know, especially now. So we do those things and we make content and stuff like that, but uh that always seems fraudulent to me, you know what I mean? It's like doing I'm doing it for the reason that we all know that we're doing it, you know what I mean?

Is to try to engage and bring more You think you'd feel different about it if you had like a marketing production type person that was just setting up ideas for you and be like, "Hey, get with Cameron and do this. Look at this and say this." We've done that in the past too. I mean, like um this was a conversation from earlier is like I was like it was more beneficial to us to bring a photographer or some sort of content creator out on the road than it was to bring a front of house guy And that's scary.

or you know, something like that, you know what I mean? Because you know, that's where I'm really, you know, making movement at, right? You know what I mean? My front of house show sounds really good.

Sounds good to 3 to 500 people, but if I have a video that goes up on Instagram, I'm going to hit thousands and thousands of people with this thing in a split second, you know what I mean? So uh it is it is easier when there's someone else that's controlling that and giving me prompting me to do things or, you know, getting the band you know, people like load in and they don't they don't want to see load they want to see load in, right? It's like, why do you want to see load in? But, you post a video of us loading in and joking around on stage while we're doing soundcheck, that's a hit.

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Yeah, but you just post a video you playing. Yeah, it's like, whatever.

Who cares? Yeah. It is it is interesting, but like I'm the same way when I look at stuff. Yeah.

I'm like, I don't want to see that. Just another guy on a mic. Mhm. You know.

Yeah, that was the like the I never watched anybody's live stream during the pandemic thing cuz like I don't want to just sit here and watch some guy play guitar in front of his fireplace. Right. I'm not interested in that. It is a Humans are so weird, but at the same time if he was like doing something really bizarre.

Yeah. I did a weird one during the pandemic where I did like a ala late night show. Ala? Ala.

Wait, hold on. What? It was like it was like Letterman. It was like Letterman.

So, I like had like cards and I would take questions and I would I would raffle stuff off and I would show old clips of like that I would find on my computer of the band or whatever. It was just a late night show, you know what I mean? To me that was a little bit more interesting than And I would play a song every now and then or whatever. Um, but that was just more interesting than just please put money in this tip jar while I sit here on my couch and stare into my laptop.

Yeah, while I just play my guitar. Yeah. It has gotten, uh, I would totally agree. The little late night show kind of thing.

I can't believe I didn't see that. I don't know how I missed that one. still on the internet, so I need to probably wipe those up. How many did you do?

Uh, I mean, I did like, I don't know, eight to 10 of them. Would you have guests on? Yeah, we I would do an interview segment sometimes. And I would have like a pre-taped interview and I would Here we go.

Roll that footage. It was cool. I got pretty good at live. I was doing it all live and I had to like, you know, I can now going to play this video and then it was a I spent like all week.

It gave me something to do. I spent all week like editing this, you know, putting together the show, directing the show. I had to run a show for everything, when I was going to do it all, what songs I was going to play. Yeah.

I spent a week like doing that and then on whatever Fridays I would go live. Didn't you didn't you say that you all are doing something sort of like that, maybe? I don't know. Did I?

No. Yeah, like you said your bus driver has the place that you Oh, yeah. So he's got Yeah, he's got I didn't even know he had it. So we're in Minnesota and he has this place and it's set up kind of like this.

And I was like, man, if I had that, you know, there again, like you say, if I had someone that was out there creating that for me, like in prompting me to do stuff, I'd be more apt to do it. That's kind of the situation that happened here, where it's like we saw this setup and it's like, well, we're here for a day. Uh I'm either going to go to the bar or we'll sit here and try to create something, you know what I mean? So we just like filmed like some kind of between two ferns type joke.

You know, things I can get 15 seconds out of. You know what I mean? And then we'll just throw it, you know, throw the rest away. What are you Are you putting them up on just social media and stuff?

Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to give them to my wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll let her decide where she wants to put it. Where it'll be most likely think they're going to go up?

Oh, I don't know. I mean, when I get done with this tour, probably. Okay. When's that over?

Um in about 2 weeks. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Well, they'll have Cuz then I'll start Cuz then we'll you know, it's we'll have to We I mean, we filmed a lot of stuff on the road and we're about to go in the studio. We're going to film some stuff there. So it's about pretty much all just going to be banked and then that'll give us, you know, an extended amount of content to put out while we're not really out working. Uh have you produced a of records for other people?

Uh yeah, I've co-produced some things. Um I did a Rob Lannes record. Um with me and Adam Odor did it. Uh I did a couple of songs that's uh Yellow Dog?

Yeah, Yellow Dog. Okay. And that's where we did that record. Um Whose was that?

What was that again? Rob Lannes. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's awesome.

Yeah, he's great. I didn't know he did that. His last record? Yeah.

Headcase. I want to go listen to it again. Like a just like three-piece rock and roll man. Yeah, man.

It's Yeah, yeah, it's fun cuz I got to play with guitar pedals. I want to say we like connected on uh hate to say it, social media uh recently. Rob's great. I love hanging with him.

We do shows together a lot. I bring him out as much as I can. Um I also did some production for Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers on a record that I don't know what's happening with that. That may not come out.

It was like they wanted to do a revamp of like kind of their old catalog. Um like Texas versions of it. So, like me, Adam Odor was involved, uh Cody Braun was involved in it. Uh couple other like Texas people were involved that were all friends with.

And uh produced a couple of different songs and then Roger came in with like two or three new songs and uh I helped him rework those and we produced those. So, yeah, I mean I'm going to delve more into that. I did I produced a record for this guy named Paul Nipper years and years and years ago. It was my first foray into that.

And uh I loved it. I mean, it's kind of what I wanted to do anyway, you know what I mean? When I'm like I said, when I moved to Austin Yeah. that was what I was learning how to do.

And then with that Wilco thing really inspired that to you know, be more creative in the studio and exercise those things. So, I'm doing it as much as I as much as I can. And then I co-produce with, you know, with Adam and the band on all of our all of our stuff, too. What do you think is the biggest difference between cutting your own stuff and producing and co-producing your own stuff and producing for somebody else.

Well, I mean I come in with pretty strong opinions about my own thing, you know what I mean? I think for the other side of it is it's mostly about trying to make that artist be that artist, right? Like I wanted Rob's stuff to sound more like Rob than Rob has ever sounded, you know what I mean? So like just listen to what he's saying, I'll make some maybe arrangement changes or whatever or something that I think is maybe more musically interesting if he doesn't have if he hasn't gotten that far yet.

He's got like a you know bare-bones thing, add some stuff in there that they can do that, but mostly just make him sound like him, right? Make the artist sound like the probably the job. Um and then I feel like I'm a little bit more off-the-wall experimental with maybe some of those things like on another artist, uh take more chances of things that I wish maybe I could do on a record that I'm making, but it wouldn't really fit on my record, but here's an opportunity to use an idea that I have. Uh it might work for this project better than that.

So that's kind of that's really I think the most fun I have with it. Yeah. It's like I get to utilize things that I don't normally get to utilize. Yeah, I've found the most difficult thing for me has been figuring out even in pre-production and in recording like really being intentional about like where does this where does this vocal sit like sonically?

Right. Um and then if and then really experimenting with changing keys to try to make that more appropriate. For sure. Especially with more guitar-driven stuff cuz it's just going to you change the key, it's going to change kind of everything on guitars.

a lot of things but from making our records with Adam Ayan in the chair I learned a lot of things. He's produced a lot of records and I learned a lot of tricks of the trade in that regard, right? And I use them on our records and then I will turn use them somebody else's record, you know, pushing the key up as high as I can get this guy to belt this thing out or change, you know, or modulating in the middle of something. Uh there's just all kinds of little things that you just pick up and then you when you hopefully you recognize the point that you pull that tool out.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's badass, man. I'm glad we got to meet.

I've been a fan for a long time. I mean that. We get to play a show together. to pretty Decatur, September 20th.

There you go. For the road rodeo. Rodeo. Word has it you're going to ride broncs, too.

You're going to get on some broncs and then play the show after. on the internet, so I hadn't seen that word yet. yeah, right. That's what happens.

you got to be on there, dude. That's what's happening. Yeah. Everybody's talking about it.

Let my wife tell me if I'm going to do that or not. We'll see. I mean, you know, I ain't scared. Yeah, I mean, we have too many beers.

I tend to. Is that on a Saturday? I think it is. No, I think it is a Saturday.

That means it's like a beer day. Okay. I try to do it at the end of the week. Oh, really?

Yeah, if I go in too hard on like a Thursday or something. I've also got on that train where I'm not really drinking much before I play. Uh-huh. At least a couple days before.

Yeah, I can't really do anything you do. I don't know. It was just uh there was I went through a phase of just like being stone cold sober while I play on stage. That was like it freaked me out.

If I'm sober, I will forget words. Whoa. Like I have to I don't know something about my muscle memory has to have like at least two drinks. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's not that I don't have to. I did one the other day where I was just feeling bad.

I was having a bad day and I feel it, so I went out there and did the show and it was great. But, a lot of times though I'll if I'm don't have a little bit I'll get cloudy or something. yeah, I get it. Yeah.

I get it. But, I would have that like five song in almost kind of spiral. I'd get up there more confident. Right.

And then like five songs in I'd just like I'd like make weird eye contact with like one person. Yeah. And then kind of have like that internal freak out moment. Yeah, you want to see me do a show where I don't say a word, watch me do it sober.

Really? Yeah. Oh, you get like even more it's like all here, man. Interesting.

No, I'm just thinking about it. That's so like I'm opposite. That's why it's called loosening up. I know, but I'll sometimes at first I'm loosened and then I'll get like closed off.

You start Well, yeah, I guess if I continue. I think I need I might need to go harder. I don't think I've tried hard enough. Let's try that.

I think I need to try harder. I'm excited about that show. PRCA Rodeo, Decatur, Texas. September 20th.

That's going to be cool. I haven't seen you guys play in a long time. Yeah, it's going to be good, man. It's going to be loud.

Yeah. It's going to be loud. Yeah. Rock and roll.

Rock and roll show. Well, dope. I'm looking forward to it. Thank you for doing this.

Thanks for chatting with me. Yeah, man, it's fun. All right. Adios, amigos.

What was your sign-on? Did you do a motivational sign-on speech? No, I don't do anything that's too motivational. Do you want to do something What's the What's the opposite of What's the antonym for motivation?

Motivational. What would be the opposite of a motivational speech? You can't say demotivation. Or unmotivation.

I don't know, some sort of malaise or lays, I don't know, something. that's a good word. a good word? What does malaise mean?

It's Like negative? I don't think it's negative. It's just Like mal- like if I looked in the camera and said something, I would be but it was it would be Malaysian. Like I'd be being Malaysian.

Malaise has been uh kind of my whole demeanor during this interview. Like a bummer? Is that what that is? That is like yeah, man.

I mean let's discuss. Let's discuss. I feel like that was pretty motivational. Yeah, that was that was good.

very open-ended. Positive, honestly. I definitely don't think I know what the word means. Yeah, yeah.

You'll figure it out.