Summer Dean

Full episode transcript, auto-generated from the audio and lightly formatted (verbatim, not edited).

[Music] Purple canon. Yeah. Took that took a while to figure out. Some control issues on your part, maybe, but we don't have to talk about that.

Well, I'm just a big fitness guy, you know. I like to hold people accountable. One reason I'm here is because of fitness. It is.

It is. So, Steve knows Bill Corbin. Oh, this is real. This is real.

Oh, okay. I thought we were in a bit. All right. No, I love bits, but I also love it when you don't know.

I think I knew that. I met I've talked to you for like five minutes like one first time I met you and I was like, "Okay, I like back at the not the old Lola's, but the newer Lola that's no longer Las." Yeah, it was a while ago for a ranch something. Yeah.

Anyways, you had met Bill Coron? Bill. Yeah, he I work out with him every morning. Oh, really?

And well, every morning that I can. And uh Steve knows him and Yeah. Badass bass player. Yeah.

And just badass guy, you know. Cool person. Yeah. He's a cool guy.

Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, he's a good bass player. Yeah, he's a great bass player.

All we like talk gear while I'm doing uh lunges. Has he played with you? Or Punishers, as I call him. What?

Do you remember in high school? Where'd you go to high school? Decatur. Okay.

So, uh in my day, I don't know. I don't know uh if this is real other places, but like you would get in trouble if you were didn't get a good score on a test or how many minutes you were late to whatever happened in the week at school. You get in trouble at athletics workout and you would be punished by doing lunges or running lines. Oh yeah.

In the basketball gym. And uh so anytime we had to do them this morning, anytime Bill's like, "Okay, walking lunges from here to here," I'm like, "Punishers." Is it because you did something? No, it's because they're a great workout for my goals.

And uh because he's jacked. I He's He has a bad shoulder right now. So do I. So I'm pointing at mine.

And he benched almost 400 lb. With a bad shoulder, he could have with a good shoulder. He could have done 400 400. You I think of pounds and feed sacks cuz one feed sack's 50 pounds.

So, I think that mother trucker just benched four feed sacks. I'm not great at geology, though. But I So, I don't know. I would never go to a female geologist.

I would only go to males. That's weird. What is a geologist? That's rocks.

Oh, yeah. That's right. No, it's maps. I thought that was I thought that was like long algebra.

I prefer short algebra. Who has time for long algebra? The long division, but short algebra. We have the internet.

Who needs long algebra anymore? God. Yeah, with cat. That was already happening.

Just chat. GPS it. Y'all forget it. Forget it.

But now see that is geography. Now we're into geography. I'm pretty sharp. I'm pretty sharp.

Yep. You are. Everybody gets Some cowboys got smarts real good, don't they? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a bunch of them.

Uh yeah. I'm horrible at math. Like literally when you said the 50 pound feed sack thing and you were getting to 400, I like I had a little like heart flutter. It's pretty simple math.

Oh yeah. No, when I said Did I intimidate you, Jared? The math does. Uh no, I taught third grade math for 12 years before I was full-time music.

Okay. So that's how Cuz you didn't put out your first record till 21. No, I put out a short EP in 2016, but it doesn't matter. Well, so full but first full record was 21.

2021. Yeah. not that long ago. I guess I just didn't I didn't know.

I just I just didn't know that. That's okay. I've always been kind of in the scene, but not I didn't all the way jump in until the age of 39. Well, when you say and then co happened.

Yeah. Perfect timing. Well, yeah. I put out my first record in 19.

So, it hit right in Oh. 20. I bet it did great. Uh maybe.

Yeah. There's probably two ways of looking at it. You always, you know, who cares really? Also, you know.

Oh, shoot. Yeah. What are you going to do about it? I just don't really focus on it.

You know, they always say that you'll start seeing better success when you stop caring what people think. But isn't people liking your stuff what keeps you going in this business? So, I don't really get that. I mean, I get it a little bit, but maybe I don't.

I don't know. Yeah. I care what people think. Some people.

True. Or sometimes you care about it to a point. Yeah. Like or like uh like feedback.

I want to know all the feedback. I'll choose what I want to fix of that. Like what I want to listen to or not. Yeah.

Wasn't music. Well, for me it was always a collaborative type event. Like No, I hate everyone else. I want to collaborate.

Yes. You are a cat person. That's right. No, I'm kidding.

Uh yeah, it is collaborative. I Right. Yeah. timing and then it's collaborative in a lot of angles because it's got to be collaborative with the timing and it's got to be collaborative with your people and with your fans and so would like so if you were on just a desert island would you still play and sing and write songs the same way with as much attention you know what if you were stuck shamefully probably not see we do care what people think I do I do I write a song a week and I for I guess three and a half years now.

And some of the songs I do write because uh it just felt great, you know, or it felt right or there was just a story in my mind based on something and I wanted to get it out. And uh my last album is a lot of that. I wasn't writing too much about every everyone's different. And I guess sometimes I write a song because oh, a lot of people dance to this one cover that I do or so I'll think about that and keep that in mind and try to write one that's going to keep people on the floor because I don't want to do that cover anymore.

I want to do more of my originals. And so that was a transition for me. So some of the songs, yeah, have a purpose to them and some of them don't on the same record. Yeah.

I just don't think it's mutually exclusive. Like whether or not you care what people think or you don't care what people think. I think there's some gray area. Like you can like what you're putting out and also the people you're putting it out to enjoy it as well.

I just don't find those to be mutually exclusive. Have you ever put something out and then people talk to you about it and they get something from it that you never Oh yeah. thought of and you're like, "Oh, dang. That's way more intelligent than what I was thinking."

Yeah. Like they think it's bad and I thought it was awesome. I will say I've never put out that's when you need to not care. Yeah.

Well, when you think it's awesome. Well, yeah, cuz that I guess that's the part you have to I guess the starting point would be you have to like I've never done anything that I don't like that I is just pandering and I'm like well I think this will just work but I don't like it. Even like I've never done that even like beginning stuff. Uh maybe well the first songs I ever wrote probably were pandering but I didn't put them out or anything.

I just scrapped them. So there's not there hasn't been anything fortunately I guess that I've put out that there's stuff that I've thought is going to do well and it doesn't but I like it. I like it a lot. Yeah.

And it's weird like you I mean I'm sure you've been around a lot of people that uh have massive success, but I don't think that they really like their work that much. But they might be really successful and they have like a weird almost resentment towards their fans or like a almost like a uh like a pretentiousness towards them. Like they kind of think their fans are idiots. Yeah, a little bit.

That's kind of the vibe I get sometimes. I think everyone including myself, including you two, is a little bit of an idiot. We all are. Yeah.

But yeah, I get that. I never thought about that before. I haven't thought about that before. I guess I can think of a couple artists that I know that have are successful but have maybe evolved and so when people hang on to their beginning stuff that they don't relate to anymore really they might see that as something but I don't know I guess I hadn't thought about that very much it's more of just an observation but I'd be curious like you so you said you had you already taught school for a long time before you actually really got into music.

Yeah. And I even entered teaching school late. What did you do before that? Oh, I've done ranch real estate.

I taught school and then I opened a store for a while with a business partner and that went as business partners go and then um got a real estate license and then went back to teaching school. Yeah. So, a little bit of all of it. I never uh I went to college at Tech and uh um I majored in a communications and um what because growing up around here that's what you did if you're an FFA girl you that I just kind of followed what you did.

I followed what was protocol for girls like me. And uh I don't regret I don't I mean no regrets, you know, but I uh I don't think I don't think I paid attention to what I really was led by and what really fueled me. I still love u the agricultural life. It's my platform based using other things.

And at the end of every set I say, "Please remember if it weren't for agriculture, you'd be hungry and naked. Support your farmers and ranchers as best you can." I say it every single show. It's my platform in life.

It's my platform in my parents' life and their parents' life and my brother's life and uh but I was trying to make my life that and because that's what you did and my big brother was a state of FA officer. I was an area officer. I just followed what you do. So, um, it wasn't until and then, you know, I went and got my teaching certificate because I'm like, "Oh, I can work anywhere in Texas and be a lovely little wife and mom and any, you know, wherever his ranch is, I can be there and work and have a job."

And, uh, it was just setting myself up for that life. And, um, never lined up. It never felt right. It never did any of that.

So then I just started doing what felt right later in life. Yeah. Why did it not feel right? I don't know.

It always felt this is this uh I don't mean this offensive but it always felt like that life was settling. I always felt like if I get married and I have kids and I move to I don't know Marathon or something and I'm ranching out there that'd be beautiful and I would love that and that's kind of how I want to bookend things you know but I always felt like I was settling by doing that and this is weird for a woman to say how I grew up but I always felt like women that fell into that life had um chosen something other than themselves, which is a very selfless thing to do. But I always just saw it as like settling like no, I can't do what I really want to do and have kids. I can't do I can't get all that done.

And so because I was feeling that internally, I was fighting it because it felt unfeminine. It felt uncchristian. It felt un worth un like not in line with the women before me in my family who I love so much and our wonderful strong mothers and ladies in the church and uh so I've fought it for a long time thinking that there was something sinful or not feminine enough about me because I didn't want the kiddos and the little life. Um, and so I fought it for a long time with all these jobs and trying to figure it out.

And that finally was just like I just want to do what feels I want to do what feels personal to me and what feels fills and feels and fills me up, you know? So, I just kind of quit worrying about trying to force this other stuff. That's what I mean by it, I guess, for a very long answer. But and now I've learned um and I'm not a feminist and I'm not anything like that or I just have learned that the husband and kids does not fulfill you as a woman.

I can be really feminine and independent and soft and hard and still be a woman and feminine. It doesn't take this one version of it. Yeah. You know.

Yeah. Do you feel like society, which side of the coin do you think society leans towards in terms of where they encourage women to go nowadays? I don't think it matters as much anymore. I think women and men have done a good job of seeing things wider, especially as generations progress, you know.

Um, I love uh my mom told me once, you know, oh, you're I was kind of depressed and feeling weird in life and my mom was like, well, if you just get married and have kids, uh, your problems would be solved. Okay, good lord. No, no, I had something other things, you know, but that's where that's where we come from. Just building this perfectlook life versus feeling great about yourself and uh being fulfilled in that.

Sometimes I feel like that's selfish, but it wasn't until I have a wonderful family and they're very proud of me. But it wasn't until I booked my first Grand Opry debut this past couple months ago. My mom was like, "I'm so proud of your accomplishments." And it was one of the first times that I felt fulfilled as a woman and as a human based on my personal goals and my achievements, not through kids or a husband.

Yeah. you know, so that was pretty cool. I think there's a flip side to that, too, though, that the more traditional uh lifestyle for a man Yeah. like isn't particularly glamorous e either, though.

Yeah. Like I mean, cuz we're just talking like cuz the flip side of what you're talking about is like finding a guy that's just going to like work his ass off on a ranch and raise kids. Like there's elements of that are fulfilling, but it's like you see some people that go through life that they find like their entire I guess it exists in every walk of life, whether it's a musician that finds their entire identity in like what they do for a living. Mhm.

Or there's parents that find their entire identity in just like raising kids. Yeah. And I just think there's probably a little bit more nuance to life. And if you put like so much hope and trust in just mostly things of this world, Yeah.

it's probably going to come up a little bit short. and unfulfilling in my experience. That's a good that's may that's maybe what I needed to find earlier is that I don't it's not maybe the answer is not this or that. Maybe the answer is that it's one thing.

Don't put it all in one thing. I had somebody say the other day that it's not as much what you do but how you do it. Sure. That's cool.

Like you could do a lot of different stuff. But we so like what do you do for a living? Like that is what like identifies you as like a person like oh I'm an accountant. Oh, wow.

Cool. It's like, well, what if you're a huge dick? Yeah. Like, how you do it to me?

What do you do for a living? I'm just an [expletive] Yeah. Right. In life.

Yeah. If we were probably a little bit more honest. Uh, yeah. What do you do for a living?

Well, I don't know. I wake up at 5:00 a. m. pretty pissed off and ungrateful and then I go to the convenience store and like I'm a little bit short with the little clerk at the front and then like I honk at somebody on the way there.

Yeah. Get a piece of junk coffee. That's like how you're doing it. Yeah.

You know, don't you love it when people tell you a little saying like it's not what you're doing, but how you do it. And sometimes that's a simple little saying, and then sometimes it's so freaking profound because you needed to hear it at that moment. Just an easy little thing, easy little tidbit. But that's why I love the uh like convenience store, early morning small town coffee with like all the old men sitting around there.

They talk a lot of BS, but they'll usually just always have those little like Yeah. Like you're walking out the door, good to see you. And they're like, "Yeah, you know, just remember what you do, but how you do it." Oh.

Oh, dang. You're like lost all day like, "H, why'd you do that to me?" Oh, it's a passing statement. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm trying to think of other ones that have been rolled out to me like that. I don't know. Yeah.

Well, so the opery thing was probably gnarly. I wish that for every country music performer because it's been my dream since a little girl. I either wanted to be Miss Texas or I wanted to sing on the opera. I wanted to be either one.

I never I wanted to be I never dreamt of my wedding. Yeah. I dreamt of getting crowned Miss Texas or you know or I never thought what are my kids names going to be? Like no.

I was like you know what am I going to wear in the opera? and um uh I manifested. I don't know if that's a real thing or not, but I do believe that if you have specific goals and you make decisions based on those goals, then maybe that's manifestation. Like if you know what you want, then you can make really decisive decisions based on where you want to go.

If you see yourself 20 years from now, you know. Anyway, but the oper was magic and it went as I envisioned because my hero Connie Smith was there and she's a traditional she's married Marty Stewart and we played for Marty a couple times and I told Marty when we opened for him uh um it's a pleasure to open for Connie Smith's husband. This means the world to me. She's my hero and she was there and I got to hug her and I was crying like ugly cries.

I couldn't even look at her face without crying. It was stupid. I was ging her a big time. Yeah.

Was it during the rehearsal or like when you right before you like This was before rehearsal. Okay. I saw her after the show, too. Um and she did Hinges on the Door, which one of my favorite that we cover when we do dance all shows and it was it was amazing.

My favorite part of the day. And we stayed in Hank Snow's house. It's an Airbnb in Nashville. You can stay in Madison that you can stay in Hank Snow's house.

Yeah, that's crazy. And they let me bring my whole band, which we're just a four piece right now. And when you debut on the Arubbery, you can only bring two players. So, but they let me bring for three.

So, I got to have my whole band. Oh, wow. Which is really special and made me way more comfortable. What's the difference with using their house band?

Nothing. Can you do that? They're some of the best players. Are you allowed to?

Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. I just I am lucky that I have had the same rhythm section and some of the same roster of lead players for six or seven years and that's u that's hard to find.

Almost impossible. Yeah. Um and have a good relationship. I just wanted them to have the opportunity.

You know, those guys are the reason I sound the way I sound. Like I may drive the bus figuratively and literally. It's no bus. No bus.

Just a van. But I they're a lot of the reason why I groove the way I groove and sound the way I sound. So they deserve that experience up there. But the rehearsal was cool.

We you go around this dark stage and then you see the stage and you look out and you just see it all. It's crazy. And so I stepped into the circle and there's like a light on the stage around the circle and everything. The sound guy was like, "Oh, you have an XLR, blah.

Is that what you need?" And I was like, "No, I need 30 seconds." Yeah. Yeah.

Just let me breathe this air right here. It was cool. It was awesome. But it's not the original.

No, we were not in the Ryman. It is the original circle. Have you played the Ryman? They moved that.

No. No. Sang in there or anything? I mean on a tour.

We toured I toured the Ryman as a as a visitor. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

They let you get up and there take a picture on the stage. Yeah. And there was like this beautiful Martin guitar sitting there. Yeah.

I was like, "Can I just Well, no, I didn't ask. So, I picked I like, you know, strummed it and it was in tune. I just picked it up and sang a Kitty Wells song because she was the first female in the operating. So, I sang Kitty Wells real quick and my mom got a video of it.

So, technically, same at the Ramen. Yeah. Well, that's the whole point. Have I been invited?

No. Hey, that would probably be a classic moment though that like that was like just for you regardless of anybody being there or anybody like having fans there or anything like that. That was just like a moment for yourself. Yeah, it was cool.

I had that at Green Hall first time I played there actually. First and second time, but it was just during soundcheck. Yeah, it's because that's your first time. Yeah, because when the crowd's there, you kind of go into show mode and you kind of you turn a lot more things on.

You shift, you know, you get it and you're still you, but you're performing. Yeah. For your fans. Uh but Yeah.

But soundcheck is always that's always the time. And you don't have bodies to like soak up the reverb. So it's like there's something about like you can just feel that like slap off the back wall. Yeah.

You know, and just like the wobble between the wood and stuff. Yeah. Feel the ghosts and just that. And I'm Did you go in the willy door?

Yeah. I mean, you got to Yeah. I'm like a kind of irreverent person to a certain degree. I don't know where I get that from.

Well, my family was always like really uh like especially like cousins and stuff. We're were like a we're at times a pretty tough hang. Uh and we can be pretty hard on people. So, it's like if you [expletive] Yeah.

Probably jerks. Uh if they sniff even a little bit of you caring a little bit too much about something, they're just going to like crush your soul basically. Sure. That kind of thing.

So, you're always kind of trying to play it cool a little bit like you don't want to show your whole card. Okay, I get it. Yeah. And uh so I think I might I don't know.

That might be like something that I've just developed like no matter like even when I went to the Opry for the first time. I didn't play or anything. I just went there's like a this kind of just almost little shitty part of me that's like well I mean well this is an industry it's almost a defense mechanism. I think it's a guard for sure but this is an industry of cool you know.

Okay. Yeah. We've got to play it cool. Like you can be back like I was that's why I was a little embarrassed of playing not of crying in front of Connie cuz I was like we're backstage like this should be a chill like you know it's a mystery of cool you meet your heroes backstage at these festivals and you have to just what's up.

I have yet to figure out how to really play that cuz I will just tell somebody like I'm a huge fan. Not like I don't get weird but I'm like I love this song. Well, look at it this way. If a fan comes up to you and says that you're very grateful and you love that.

But if a peer or colleague comes up and says that, like that means Yeah. Like they're listening differently than a fan does. Oh, 100%. I love fans and I we all need them, but I want to make sure I don't diss that.

But like that's why I think you should tell these people. Okay. Like I got to meet uh Steve Earl and I didn't go crazy, but I was like, "Dude, like this is so cool to hear you. You're such an influence and like I'm such a I'm just a nerd about you.

This is cool. I'm sorry I'm ging you, but Well, I it tells me a I'm not a I guess afraid. I'm glad you're like that, too, cuz I'm not afraid to do it because actually kind of shows me like depending on their reaction, it kind of shows me who they are. You know, it's a whole conversation about when you meet them, huh?

It's a whole conversation about, you know, the meeting your heroes type. Oh, yeah. Cuz like if they think I'm being weird, I'm like, "Oh, I was being really nice." Yeah.

Be genu be cool, dude. Be sweet. Interesting. I don't like you as much anymore.

I guess also though, we all have those days like who knows what day of tour it is. Who knows like how their sound check went. Yeah. But yeah, you got to Oh, well.

When I'm at You got to words are going to come out. They are right now. I'm being weird. Uh, you still have to be nice to people though, no matter how shitty it all feels sometimes.

Yeah. I mean, especially if somebody's got like a very specific like I love how you're freaking whatever second verse of this song specifically. There's this guitar part that comes in or they bring up an like a b-side obscure Yeah. song of yours and you're like you listen like you really listen to my album.

You're bringing up a song, a talking poem song I have about bailing wire. Yeah. And you're relating it to it cuz you grew up on a ranch like me. Like that's cool, you know?

Like I don't know. Yeah. It's cool when they like your hits. When they like your obscures, that's neat.

Yeah, definitely. I can just appreciate somebody having the confidence to compliment somebody else. I feel like that's getting more rare nowadays. Yeah.

Especially artist to artist. Especially like genuine, not like great set, bro. How do you feel about I think great set, bro. Killer set.

I think that is a diss. Yeah. Don't wor damn word. If my set was bad, you leave me alone.

Don't say anything to me. Yeah, because don't tell me great set, bro. If the set did like crush, I'm talking like palm of your hand. Like you crush, burn the place down.

No one says great set, bro. No, they don't. They're like whoa dialog. And they go off.

I was like, "Don't do that to me." But again, most musicians, like all of us or most of us are like kind of like outsiders and we weren't like particularly like uh like super social creatures at some point in my life. So I think we're a little bit clunky socially. So I try to like a lot of them, you know, or like a lot of players.

I mean cuz like shoot they had to sit there for 20 years of their life. Yeah. They're band nerds. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And so it's like sometimes it comes out maybe and they're probably walking away like [expletive] good set, bro. Why did I say that?

Yeah. So, it's like, you know, what if you walked off this festival set and you feel like you crushed it and somebody goes, "Good set, bro." And you're like, "Oh, was it bad?" I immediately Oh, no.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh. Oh, shoot. Try so hard. Actually thought it was pretty good.

Yeah, that happens to me a lot. No, it doesn't. Great set, bro. No, it doesn't.

Good set, bro. Every time I see you, I'm going to say that now. Good set, bro. Yeah, please do.

Yeah. Follow with like a like a squish face. No, don't even do the squish face. Just send me a text with only the squish face, the emoji, like after you said it.

When people give me a thumbs up to a text, I never see it as like, "Got it." I see it as like Is it's a bit like a K. Like a sar a lowercase K. Whoa.

Jeez. Take it easy. I try not to care about that stuff, but I just do. Yeah.

But it's so I mean, it's unacceptable. It is just it's fighting words. I guess it is same as bud chief sport champ. What can I get you, bud?

I'm like, all right. Well, you can we could go outside and fight. Yeah, I just I just dropped an Fbomb. Oh, it's okay.

Okay. Yeah. Bleep. You do you.

Not very Christian and feminine. It's not. It's not. Damn it.

Damn it. It's okay. We'll work through it. My mom will call.

Yeah. So, your parents still ranch? Yeah. Yeah.

Klay County, right off 287, just further down the road. Yeah. I guess I didn't totally realize you were from out here. Yeah.

I went to school in Jacksboro. Okay. And um my granddad was running our place. This is like generation generational ranch.

It's sick. It is sick. I'm very proud of it. I'm scared.

Um, this is super like my personal life, but I'm a little scared um for when it's my turn. My brother is extremely capable of it. My brother lives in Path outside Floresville, outside San Antonio, and he's got a meats company called Dean and Peeler. He's got his PhD in beef cattle genetics and he's a he's a Dr.

Dustin Dean. Like, he's an awesome guy. Wow. and he's extremely capable to do um to run everything, but he's in South Texas and he's just putting he's got two kids and a wife and putting deeper roots down there.

So, I'm like, "Oh crap, it's going to be me." And uh I'm a honky tonker, you know? So, I'm certainly don't put anything past I've learned there's only two siblings. Yep.

Oh, wow. I've learned to not limit myself, you know, and I understand everything, but like I do get scared. So, uh I'm in the market for a ranching husband. There you go.

I'm gone all the time. Um, and I've got I need help on a ranch. So, that sounds Put that out there. Y'all DM me.

I'm actually DM. It's like a very real reality of life. Yeah, it really is. It really is.

Um, I mean I do uh yeah, there might be some things that you can't put you can't hold me down with your thumb and stuff, but like if you're an independent guy running a ranch and you're of age, somebody asked me I told 2025 I'm going to like put it out there and try to date because I've never give it any much importance. I had one boyfriend in my life and he had a stroke at 41. It changed him and we broke up. he didn't die.

And uh but so I've been telling people at 2025 I'm going to try to date more, you know. So I've been telling a lot of my guy friends that I like and I like what they do and I think that they probably have friends that would get me. Uh cuz there's the show side of all this, you know, but then there's just the small town girl that was grew up a Baptist and likes to cook and wear aprons and likes my grandma's china, you know. So, uh, um, I've been telling these guys, "Oh, set me up.

Be thinking about it when you've got single or divorced friends, right?" Yeah. And they said, "What's your age bracket?" And that's really weird because I am older than my job.

I'm older. I'm physically older than my job. I'm mentally older than my job. And uh, and so like I'm I'll be 45 this month.

So, it's like between I was like I guess between 35 and 55, but like there's guys that are 35 and freaking babies. Oh, yeah. And there's guys that are 35 and completely mature and capable. There's 50y olds that are like babies.

Yeah. And there's 55 year olds that are like paws already. Yeah. And then there's 55 year olds that are that can hang.

There's 28-y olds that act like 60 year olds. There are. Yeah, there are. So, you know, I have never cared about age, like in the sense of like who I hang out with, who I like, like who I don't like.

It's just never really like people just kind of look different. But I don't know. I've just always had like a like a deep respect for older people. Like they and I just have always thought it was bizarre that our culture put so much emphasis on being young.

It's like you're just an it. you don't know anything. And looking young like as a woman that's a whole thing like letting my gray hair grow out and all this. I'm just trying to embrace like I don't mind aging.

I don't want to look bad. Yeah. You know, but I don't mind aging. And I think the more women do that, the more women embrace the gray hair and the wrinkles and the changing of the way you look, like the more normal it will be.

Like quit fighting it. Yeah. And just go with it. Yeah.

You know, lean in. And yeah, but like why does because a lot of other cultures around the world don't like they have a like seems like more respect for elders than our culture. Ours is like so obsess whe like it's like young people just drive like what's popular and you get a bunch of like 55 and 60 year olds that are like obsessed with whether it's music or how you decorate your house because of how like a 22-year-old dude to do it. what the big industry people say that the target audience for our music is like what 18 to 25 probably even younger you know that's that brings up a whole another thing we're just going to keep looping these conversations around like people like this whole resurgence of the '9s and as country Uhhuh.

That doesn't sound like it. Well, it's fine. I don't know. I'm not going to I'm not giving too many records don't sound like it.

Well, do we don't want too much of that same production tbh. Uh, I don't know. Whatever. I guess what I mean is, you know, there's this constant argument of what's real country and what's not.

And I'm so tired. Everybody has their personal opinion for sure, but I'm so tired of that argument. And so I was talking to people and I was like, it's a movable target. It's a movable dough, right?

because Oh, that's my song. No, it's okay. Everything starts at different for other people. So, these kids in the target bracket that are say 22 years old, they want to drink.

So, the bars want them to come, right? So, that's our that's our bracket. Let's say a 22-y old kid. He grew up listening to the '9s country.

that was from his that his parents grew up with '90s country. Yeah. So like that's why I love the 70s and ' 80s so much. Like and then some people say, "Oh, like traditional country is George Strait."

Somebody say, "Oh, no, traditional country is Ray Price." And then people say, "No, traditional country is Hank Williams and no, traditional country is the Carter family." It's an exhausting conversation. I just had an interview uh Friday with this publication in New York City and they wanted to interview me as an outsider that plays in New York City, okay, a couple times a year and um we always have a great crowd and it's really fun.

And so this there's this kind of all these venues and bars and stuff, clubs opening up in New York that are country themed. Cool. And it's great, right? Hey, this shirt is dinner service.

This is a New York company. Yeah. So that's going to go with this point big time. So it's starting all these opinions and people are like, "Oh, that's not a real place.

That place isn't real country. This place isn't real country." And this guy's talking to me about these arguments they're having in New York. And they're like, "Well, that's not the way the Texas dance hall does it.

That's not the way this." And the guy was like, "Well, you play this certain venue. Can you They're calling it just like a Texas honky tonk. Can you tell me the differences of what it really is and really isn't?"

And I was like, "Yeah, I can." Like, there are some protocols that y'all you guys aren't doing up there, but it doesn't matter. You know why? Cuz you're not a Texas honky.

You're a New York honky talk. Yeah. I would lean into like a New York honky talk. That's exactly That's cool to me.

I want to go play that. And I And then it's like going to Japan and wanting to get a cheeseburger. It's like Yeah. It's like no, lean in.

And so I was like I was like, "You need all sides." Like there's some people don't go to that place. It's not real. And the guy was like, "I feel silly."

Uh because we're all in New York. Like none of it's real. And I was like, "No, it is real. Just quit trying to make it Texas cuz you're not like we're not trying to be New York."

Yeah. You know, that's what makes Texas cool. Well, I said, "If you guys can just stick to what you're doing and keep learning your rules of how to do it, you can only break the rules if you know the rules. So, keep trying things and keep learning and keep feeding from everything around you."

I was like, there's a Texas country music sound. There's a Nashville country music sound. There's a California country music sound. So 10, 20 years from now, we're going to have a New York country music sound.

Yeah. And who knows what that's going to sound like. Like so much of what Texas sound is from is from the dirt on our boots because that's what we're around all the time. Yeah.

And like Nashville has the hills and so we're around that, you know, and uh California's got their sound. So New York, what are you around? Like, so as outsider playing New York, like you just keep being you. Do your version of it.

Yeah, I agree. Quit trying to be Texas cuz you can't. Yeah, I would. Yeah, you can't.

You can't and you can't. That was a great monologue on like how to just be yourself and do your own thing. It's hard though because in the creative pro I always say like I think people that don't like create music might be I don't know if they would be pleasantly surprised. They might be uh disappointingly surprised in the creative process like in the studio when you're making music.

They might be a little disappointed with how many different genres and references get thrown out when you could be making like we are making a 70s honky tonk record and they might be shocked some of the references that they would hear from like the drummer or the bass player like oh no I'm kind of getting like a little bit of like a police thing here and that it might throw him for a loop like wait hold on I thought that this was like You know, for instance, uh, like a lot of Merl Haggard's stuff, his drummers, like they were some of the first guys that did this, like they would track two drums on top of each other. Yes. And it had this very funky That's why nobody can recreate it. I mean, look at the same way.

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

They just They just But I guess if you're listening to it, the perception of it, if you don't like do the deep dive on it, you get like this idea of like, "Oh, no. That's how we do it." And it's like, "No, no, no, no. You have to study."

Yeah. like they pulled in musicians from a lot of these other genres and that's what and then so it's a bit ironic for somebody to be like that ain't real country. Merl Haggard taught us what real country was and I'm like well Merl Haggard who he listen to exactly but at the same time I like I like the kind of tribalism of it in a way because it like gives it some like a home base. Yeah.

So, at the same time, people the guy at the back of the bar that's like defending it with his life, like I country, there's a part of it that I can appreciate. Yes. He's kind of doing the dirty work I don't want to do in a way. Or that you've already done is the thing.

Okay. Like I think when somebody's arguing what's country and not, I'm like, "Oh, they'll find out. They're just in it." Yeah.

Yeah. They're just in it right now, you know? And uh and I think once you go in that room and you feel it all and you do all your studying and you have I don't even you know you just studied and taken everything in then you realize oh it doesn't matter what matters is what they were feeling and what they were making and but I told the guy uh in New York I was like I go and don't be thinking that Texans do it one way. It's like you go to the footwear stockyards and there's a I told him like oh there's we need Pams and sissies like you know you need both.

And I was like in the stockyards you'll get a place that's a Pam bar. It's fancy. It's a club. They're line dancing.

Everybody there nobody there is all is like ranchy or punchy or something. I go and it's next door to Little Red's Longhorn which is as straightforward honky tonk as you can get. So don't be just because there's different vibes like that's good. You're widening your umbrella of country music in your town.

But this kid came up to me and I had stress kid came up to me in the stockyard one time. We went out my friend and I would come go out to meet some dudes and um that they stood us up. But um Oh yeah. Oh my gosh.

Let's talk about it. We I would love to tell that story, but bring me back to it. I'm not going to say names, but um you know it's hard out there for these girls. Anyway, um Wait, you were meeting dudes or girls?

No, it's hard though for the girls meeting dudes. Okay, quick question. We'll go back to that. Yeah, let's loop back.

Um this kid uh recognized me or whatever this group little group of kids and he was like, "Oh, I'm trying to be I'm trying to do you have any advice?" And I was like, "Yeah, like what do you want? What do you what's your goal? you know, you want to be performer, songwriter, who do you like?

What's your goals? You know, he's like, I just want to be different. I want, you know, I want to be different. I was like, okay, who do you like?

And he's like, I like uh I don't even know their names, but he Riley Green, the hot one, right? He's the hot one, right? And he named He said, "I want to be different." Right.

But he named those. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

I could probably You know exactly where. But I was not going to discourage him. Yeah. And I said, "Okay, then I would quit worrying about Tik Tok and what those guys are doing."

He liked Cody Johnson. I remember him saying that name. And I It was everybody fresh. He didn't mention anybody with roots.

Sure. And I was like, you think about who those guys listen to. I go, "You go in there and you study and you rewrite all these old songs in your head." And he's like, "Well, I'm not going to copy anybody.

I want to be different." I'm like, "Okay, you can only break the rules if you know the rules." So, if he's listing no fits to these guys, Riley Green and Cody Johnson as his heroes, it's like this guy doesn't have a foundation of who he is as an artist at all. Did you tell him this?

Yeah. Oh, he got we kind of tiffed because he thought I was telling him to copy Merl Haggard or something, you know. And I was like, well, if you write No, nobody ever has to hear these songs. But I'm just saying learn the formula, learn the rules, so then you authentically break it when you're being yourself.

Yeah. Cuz he's being arrogant to think that he's actually going to successfully copy him. Well, he doesn't Well, there's that, too. I don't think he even thought of that.

So, it's like his failure and what he doesn't understand is his failure in trying to sound like them is going to help him find himself. Yeah. And that's where the freaking magic happens. Yeah.

Yeah. And I just wanted to roll my eyes and watch him become incredibly famous because of Tik Tok. Sure. Which I'm not opposed to.

That's fine. Yeah. It's 2025, dude. Yeah.

I'm not opposed to it at all. There's aliens in the ocean and stuff. You like, who knows? There's got to be a point too though that there is like a separation right now though that like there's people that have huge uh social media followings that don't people don't listen to their music a ton and then vice versa.

There's some people that don't have very big social media stuff and they just crush it on like streaming and stuff. Yeah. I don't I don't know. And then there's all the stuff in between like there's people that crush it and have a bunch of streaming.

Yeah. I mean it we're definitely at a point that like if you could have what I think granted it's just like an opinion at the end of the day but what I think is pretty weak music not very good but if you know how to like make it connect with people visually through video in a really short format like you can have a massive music career. Well no longer is this an invisible art. Invisible art like music's not an invisible art anymore.

It used to be okay a complete audible art. Well, I mean MTV changed that. I feel like we're just in the MTV the same way. Like the good thing is there's less barriers to entry.

It think about being in the 90s or something that like if you wanted to make it, you had to have a record deal and they had to get you on MTV. And how did they get how did they even find you? And how few people got that opportunity? Gosh, even in college, I was at tech from 98 to02 trying to get gigs.

We didn't even have email addresses. Yeah. I literally walked in with my guitar and auditioned or some people would hear me at a party and be like, "Go get, you know, you should call, you should play it bleachers or whatever." Blue light, you know.

This is before blue light was blue light, you know. Oh, there was Bleachers. Bleachers was across the street. Oh, cool.

Yeah. But blue light was uh not like the whole back part was not there. That was I mean Tom's like all of it was way different back then. But it was 20 that was 20 something years ago.

Like pre- internet like I'm pretty sure I wouldn't even be in music. Like I live out here. I was a horseshoe. Like I had to make a living.

So I had to be doing both and like pursue music while I was running a business just to make it work. It's like I would have had to have moved to Nashville or LA, maybe gotten a record deal. Maybe they allowed me to put my music out and then maybe it did well enough to make another record. Yeah.

Like that's a lot of may. There's Yeah, I guess there's just different May now. Agreed. It's just It's tough, you know, cuz like that's I try not to focus on like too much on uh I just try to focus on the opportunities, not necessarily the barriers to entry.

Uh cuz there's a ton of opportunity. Yeah, there's a little bit of um it is pretty pure right now too though in a way. I know I'm saying a lot of stuff that doesn't like it. I disagree with myself a lot because it's just a tough it's a tough thing because you can just put out a song and it just catches fire and it tr there's nobody deciding.

There's no middleman, there's no radio promoter, there's no record label, there's no manager deciding this is a hit. We're going to put it out to the people. I just did that on Friday. I didn't use anybody.

Yeah. You just put it out. It's like that thing catches. That's about as pure as it gets in terms of in 2025.

Yeah. And even in relation to how the music industry's ever been. Yeah. But with that, you get a lot of what most people would think is bad music gets really popular.

You still get some of that. Yeah. Yeah. More than Well, you know, you contradict or you disagree with yourself because there's no one way to do it.

If there was a one way to do it, we'd all Yeah. get that book on tape and we'd learn it and we do it. You know, there's no one way to do it. Like we're talking about people with numbers that don't match their careers and vice versa.

So, like what's frustrating is these artists will are trying to get on a label, which I'm Please call me if you're trying so hard to get on a label. There's other ways to do things. Hot take. But yeah, hot take a hot sports opinion.

Yeah. Um but um they're like, "No, we don't take anybody with less than 20K followers and blah." When they've got a whole roster of people with the numbers that don't match that. Agreed.

You know, and so that's booking managers, record labels. Yeah. They give me Oh, yeah. Or they give you the hot the popular no.

Like the popular no right now is I don't have the bandwidth. I don't have the business bandwidth to take you on, you know. I just tell him maybe I just think you need to um pivot so we can synergize together. Oo, synergize.

But I think we probably need to get a solid pivot in there. Just hit them back with some more corporate jargon. Yeah, that'd be funny. Bandwidth.

Give me a break. Bandwidth, you know. I Yeah. Then you look at their whole roster and you're like, you got that bandwidth?

You're like, oh, it must be me. That's Yeah, that's when I start to spiral. tbh. As an artist, I think like I'll get a little bit of something.

I'm like, "All right, I'm gonna try to seize this momentum I have right now and I'll kind of go after." I'll chase, which is the problem, and I'll chase. And they'll tell me, "Oh, no, we're looking, we're taking on artists with this, this, or I don't have the bandwidth. Okay, I just did I dealt with this in the last six months.

this um I don't want to this group, put it that way. They were like uh oh no, I don't you know I can't tag on anybody else. I just my clients right now I don't have the time and then like a month or so later announcing a new artist on their roster and it's like hurts. Cool.

So you did have time and then I start thinking oh it's because I'm bad or because I'm too old or I'm too country or I'm you know and then I start that spiral. Oh yeah. Gosh. which is such a vulnerable thing to talk about because uh but that's so real and then I have to just go for a walk and have a cup of water because that's what solves everything, right?

Sunshine, self-doubt thing is brutal. It's so bad. Yeah, I get it big time. It's so bad.

And when I hear artists that are way bigger than me go through the same stuff, I'm like, "Oh, it doesn't get better." Which somehow makes it better. Uh yeah. You know, which Yeah.

At the end of the day, you have to you have to find something within that's driving you. Booger. Like hearing that Linda Ronstat thought she couldn't sing. Oh, really?

Yeah. She would be really self-conscious. There's this story about her singing and she didn't want it put out on this live thing because these two women on the front row were whispering and she was dead set that they were talking about that she couldn't sing. So she had this and I'm like so hearing that Linda Ronet thinks she couldn't sing when she's the standard of a vocal female vocalist.

It's like whoa it's all right here. I know there's the self-criticism is so important to create something that's special, but then to be able to turn it off like I can I played a sold out little acoustic thing a while ago and uh like I mean it's pin drop in there like people everybody listening right and that's fine like and they obviously all bought tickets because they like my music and I will walk up on stage there and in my head I'm like I've already written out my set list and Like there's no debating on what I'm going to play. And I genuinely get up there and like when I'm sitting in the chair I'm like the first song I look at I'm like well they don't want to hear that. That's terrible.

They're going to hate that. Yeah. I mean they don't want to hear any of my music. Yeah.

You know I should just like play all covers. It's like it's like what are you I know. Like immediately have that inner dialogue of like what? When these people spent money that they worked for.

Yeah. Yeah. It's insane. How could you have that thought?

You know what some of it I just realized this. Some of it is how simple a song can be. You just thought it. It just came from your conscience and people want to pay money to hear it.

You're like, "What this?" Like, I don't know. That's a weird thing. It's because what's it worth?

Yeah. I don't know. Good luck with that. I just sat on the edge of my bed.

Like when I first started playing, it's like go play the backyard barbecue for $100 and like now I charge significantly more than that. And it's like well 102. What's it worth? Yeah.

I mean, come on. Like, so you can get totally lost in that. It's not worth anything really. There's nothing tangible about it.

Yeah. How you make people feel. That's why it's so difficult on the psyche because it's so directly attached to whether or not people like you. We have circled all the way back to the very beginning of this conversation.

And I just don't really buy it when artists tell me like, I don't care if anyone likes me. I'm like, not true. Sure to post a lot of selfies. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. It's so directly attached to how you make people feel, which is a totally untraceable, unobjective thing. Yeah.

So, you live by that sword, you die by that sword. It just comes with the territory. You know, maybe knowing I make them feel good drives me, too. Like there's women that'll come up after a show, especially off my record before, uh, which are much more visceral, natural, writing songs about being the kind of woman I am kind of deal.

And women will come up and they'll be crying and talking about these certain songs. Oh, I did it again. Just fell. I'll just hold it.

You don't have to do that. I don't mind. Okay. God gave me two arms.

Aren't you? We keep it super professional here with my unthreaded fine. Sorry. Um, is there any film in that camera?

Oh, yeah. No, we re uh I'm not hip enough on film. I was trying to come up with like I was quoting uh Wayne's World. Oh, really?

We all know there's no film in this camera. I never learn to read. I thought that was like the classic uh like when you're in the studio now and somebody will be like, "Can I take another take?" And they're like, "Well, I don't know.

We're about to run out of tape. Have you not heard the engineer like Yeah. Well, I've done it on I mean for real on an analog album. I've never done Dude, my last one was completely analog.

Really? Mhm. Holy cow. So that newest single you just put out though.

Oh, okay. Okay. Which is dope, dude. By the way, it's a cover.

No, I know, but it's like a deep kind of deep cut cover. It is. I felt um real self-conscious putting out a cover as a single. I was like, I'm a songwriter.

What am I doing? you know, but I was in the mood to have a good time. Like, it's a song we used to cover on stage all the time and it fits me, fits my voice and fits my I noticed it and my fans all liked I hate the word fans. My listeners all liked it and um so we just kind of recorded it and put it out and it's been really fun.

It's the first time I've done a music video. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's kind of surprising. I know. First time I've done like a legit music video. I felt real corny, but I think the video looks badass.

Yeah. Isn't it weird? Yeah. You look back at it and you're like, "Oh, I don't I'm not that goofy."

You know what I love about the video, besides the badass cars that are in it, is um it's a very provocative, sexy video, but the whole song is about being uh, you know, propositioned to hook up with this guy. And so, um, I just leaned into that. And the video is really sexy and provocative, but there's no boobies and butts. Okay.

It's just sexy, which is cool. I want that's what I wanted. Um, and that's what we did. It felt weird.

I had to like lock into something that I don't normally lock into, but I do lock into it on stage. So, one reason we wanted to record this song is because I had a I didn't like my gap between my recorded stuff and my stage stuff. On stage, I try, you know, it's I move a lot. I dance a lot.

It's sexy. It's loud. It's in your face. And my song, all my records are real songwritery.

And I was like, "Okay, I need to fill this gap." So, I used my Did you Do you feel like when people come see your live show, is there is it almost jarring for them to a certain degree? They love it. No, no, no.

I mean, I mean, in the sense of what they thought it was going to be, like it kind of throws them sometimes. Maybe. May, maybe. I don't know.

Like, I use a fan. There's always wind in my hair. I get in there. Uh maybe because it's different than my other shows, but like we'll do a breakdown on the show sometimes and I'll do the songwritery part, you know.

Okay. Well, but like uh Well, you're talking about the gap between like I don't know if they're shocked. I've never thought about that. I don't know.

Maybe. But you wanted to have some music that maybe like on record that maybe represented the live sound. The live sound a little bit more. That's my That's my goal right now for everything I'm recording for the next until I change my mind.

Yeah. I don't know how long it's going to be. Well, so what would be the difference in how you're approaching the songs in the studio? I use I use my live players.

I've never used my dudes. I've always used session people that my friends, you know, but people that are session. Your record sounds so good. Thank you.

Like it's uh like that newest single too, like the drum tones and like you've got that dry dead. It's the dry symbols we could find, dude. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, even like the snare and stuff. Snare's dry. Yeah. Kevin produced that.

Where did you record it? Um Kevin Skera built his own studio which sometimes those are like means a garage, but this is a beautiful Yeah. But nowadays that Yeah. It's a beautiful You can do get a lot done.

This is a beautiful He's got a lot of vintage equipment and gear in there and it's called Wolf Island in Dayton outside Houston on his family farm. Really? So brakes are nice. You can go out and you know Well, so where did you get into like really cutting records and like understanding maybe the production side of like what goes into all that?

Like when um Well, super honest answer is studying a lot. Yeah. And then the other people in my band are country music nerds that study. And our van conversations 85% of the time are about that about who's playing on what.

Oh, listen to these drums, how they do that. Who's it playing? Well, who call we'll call somebody in the van who knows a person like oh like Lostberg played drums on this Amber Digby album. So let's call Lostberg and see what kind of steel or what kind of snare he used.

be like, "Oh, I used a whatever." Then we'll buy one off Reverb and try to get I mean, yep. From being nerds. Have you Have you noticed a lot of front people are Okay, let me say it this way.

I've noticed a lot of front people are far less interested in that stuff than I ever could have imagined. I definitely don't know as much as my dudes as much as my dudes. Sure. That's not But like I can hear it in certain people's music.

I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah." I'm like, "They give a shit." Like, you know, there's I have some friends that are um not frontmen, but they're uh they play in a lot of bands.

They have a lot of singers that they're bands that they're in. And they did they do say, and I took this as a huge compliment because I care. I'm very selective on my stage band. Very selective.

And I think we've finally set a precedent of what kind of players if there if you're playing with me, I know we've set a precedent of what that means. Yeah. Sick. And so I it's one of my biggest accomplishments in music, I think.

But this guy was like, "Yeah, when you sing with us, uh, we feel like you're back. We're your band." Some people, some front people get up and we feel like it's karaoke. And there's a disconnect between what the singer is doing and what the band is doing.

And I guess I never thought about that and I took that as a huge compliment. Definitely. Yeah. I wonder what he means by that specifically.

I wonder if that's like a groove thing or a I just think it's uh the artist I think the singer is probably just concentrating on what they're doing and okay that's it not trying to create something on this stage together. You know, everybody's got a job. part of my job is to sing and perform and I will let I will won't think about them and I'll do that, you know, but we've curated all of it, you know, it's I love that part of it. My favorite part of this whole business I think it's the hardest part personally.

Yeah. Like getting a band together and keeping a band together and just getting the right players and it's so fleeting because you just have good shows where you're like, man, we were locked in. Yeah. when or when you have a couple of years of this is it is it.

Yeah. And then something happens. Somebody gets pulled up to a band that can pay them five times what I pay, you know? Well, but honestly, the band thing is a little bit like you were describing with like industry people where it's like we don't have the bandwidth or whatever.

Yeah. It's like sometimes I've gotten hit with the band stuff where it's like they've left for other stuff where it's like they don't get paid as good, they don't get treated as good and I'm like what's going on there? Oh, it's definitely you then. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

That's what I'm saying. I mean, yeah, that's what I would think, oh, you don't like my music. You don't like the way I organize things. Exactly.

Yeah. And then you they're rarely truthful when they leave. And that goes into the hang. I just I feel like I can get along with most people.

You seem that way. As long as they're not just like having a bad attitude and complaining all the time and stuff like I'm just like, "Oh, that's weird. Don't too much of a like they're a liability sometimes." Oh, sure.

Those kind of I've had a rel relatively early on it was really tough but I mean I've had the same guys for a long time and I love them to death and they're awesome but it's take but yeah I think part of it too is like just finding other guys that also I'm not a great salesman so uh I just don't like to talk about you know that classic frontman thing where it's like oh we got an investor oh I'm talking to these people and they're always talking about all this great stuff they got going on and then nothing really ever happens it's not really their business But I always kind of feel bad about like I feel like I'm BSing them if I'm always like telling them all this great stuff we're going to do all these great opportunities. But on the flip side, like if I'm never telling them anything, then they're like, "What are we doing?" Yeah. If you got anywhere.

Yeah. You kind of got to get You're going to keep playing these same places every night. Yeah. But I did a really bad job of like communicating good things.

I think I overcommunicate everything with my band. I think they but I uh I'm very organized and uh I don't like not knowing what's going on. I like being very prepared so that when I show up I can chill because I know what's happening. Yeah.

I know what we're all wearing. You know, I've got it all organized. Uh I think sometimes they don't care and I'll overcommunicate. So I'm trying to learn how to just kind of communicate with them what they need to know.

And then I'll just soak in everything else. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You think it's like a cathartic thing that you're like trying to like just get stuff out from like an anxiety standpoint?

Yeah. Maybe. I care a lot. Yeah.

And my dad has to remind me all the time, as much as they love, as much as my guys love me and I love them and they want us to succeed, no one's going to care and think about this as much as I do. And it takes up 90% of me. Yep. I love to talk about it.

I could do this for six more hours right now. Yeah. But I've got to turn it off and just let them play the music. That's what you know.

They do care though. Yeah. You know, and every once in a while they'll give me a compliment and I'm like, "Oh man, I need that." You know, I needed that.

Just a little words of affirmation. Just a little bit. Yeah. You know what I need to hear from my band more often?

I brag about how great they are all at play like at their skill. Yeah. That they use with me all the time. I would love to hear them tell me I'm a good singer or them tell me I'm a good songwriter, good performer.

And I flat out told them, "Hey, you know what I need from y'all? I need more compliments. Sorry, but I need them. I need more compliments from you guys."

Here's a woe is me. It's not happening yet. Uh scenario. Like the idea of like for instance a hot a hot girl.

Most people think she goes through her whole life just getting all these compliments and she's got, you know, she's probably a little too big for britches. So yeah, she gets hit on all the time. Exactly. Mhm.

Uh, ironically, she's intimidating, so nobody compliments her. And most people are jealous, so they never compliment her. She never gets hit on cuz the guys are intimidated. So the very thing you think she's getting all the time, it like never happens.

But then everybody's overcompensating the other direction because they think it's happening. So then people are kind of mean. They're like mean to her. So then actually, conversely, the only thing she gets is just people being kind of rude to her or looking for mistakes.

Yeah. And so like being the doing the frontman thing, you do get like a lot of maybe social credibility and stuff. And there are times that like you get like super flattered by people, which is great, but sometimes like people can overcompensate the other direction because they think you're getting that all the time. Yeah.

That they'll be like overly like just kind of rude and like go the other direction. I get that quite a bit. I also have a super punchable face. So Oh, I don't think so.

It's a condition. No, I got diagnosed. Oh, yeah. No, it's a real thing.

You get injections. Well, nowadays everybody's got to be a victim. So, you have to have like something you stand for, you know, like I have a condition. Yeah.

you know, that's outside of my Oh, I can't help it. I can't change my face. You know, feel bad for me. I think uh um Oh, I got distracted.

Oh, and people that and the compliments like, you know, I say I need to hear it from them. And it's weird because I do hear wonderful compliments all the time on Facebook and Instagram and at the merch table. And it's weird how even though I'm listening to them, they sound different and feel different coming from other people, you know, like, whoa, it's the guys that hear me in the same jokes, the same comedy night after night at the shows. Like, if they thought I was good, it would mean a lot more to me than or it would mean a different amount than a fan that paid money to get there, you know?

Why is that? I wonder. You know, those guys are getting paid. Agreed.

the people that paid money to come see me. Why is that compliment not feel the same? There's a woman crying in front of me because I shared my feelings with her in song and she paid money to get there and she looks awesome. She got ready for the night.

They you know how come that doesn't stick with me as much. These are super vulnerable conver vulnerable. I think it I personally think it's because as a performer, you know that there's certain little tricks that you can do that might be able to pull some emotion or affection from somebody, but you know deep down they're just tricks that you learned and you can't pull it the trick on your drummer cuz he's seen he's seen like he sees the mirrors back there that are making he's learning a song or something. Yeah.

And he's he knows the trick. He knows how the magic is done. Yeah. And so when you're able to like still pull a magic trick on him, it's like Whoa.

Yeah. You're totally right. Or it's not a magic trick or even which you could probably get lost in that to a certain degree cuz some of those magic tricks are cool. Yeah.

Yeah. When a when a fan's like, "Oh, I just love your voice." And I'm like, "Actually, I can't really sing. I'm just dancing around with wind in my hair singing a song that you like and you're just, you know, that's probably what's in my head.

And that's so dumb. It is. Why don't I believe her? Yeah.

I'm the same way. I'm the same way. It's that self-deprecating thing going like too far. You just can't take a compliment.

Why do we do that? Go. Because we're terrified of like being a douchebag. And there's so many really good people.

It's so good. Yes. So good. I look at these other singers and I'm like, I could never.

No. Or sometimes some especially a male will call me to collab. Uhhuh. And I'm like, I don't have a chick voice.

I'm probably in the same range as you, dude. So, you're going to throw out a song at me and I'm not going to be able to sing it because I can't sing in the typical female key typically. Yeah. You just have a lower voice.

Got a lower voice. I see. I personally like that trauma. No, I'm just kidding.

what you put in your whole body. They'll say, "Oh, you're so funny. Thanks. I'm traumatized."

Okay. You know, it's that it's that kind of thing. You just almost traumatized me to point trauma. It's like, "Oh, god."

Whatever. Throw that hot potato in my lap. Yeah. That's what my first dates are like.

Just kidding. I've been on a ton of first dates. I haven't married now. Yeah.

But you've been married a while. Yeah. Six years. Yeah.

But that yeah, that was like one of the only first dates that I got a second date. Well, because I just say it like this is who I am and then that doesn't go. You don't get a lot of second dates doing that. My brother didn't date somebody for longer than six months until he got married.

See, that's probably the way it should be. You just cut through all the BS. Yeah. He told me he's like, "Simmer, one day you'll find somebody that makes everybody else look like shit."

And that's how you know it's obvious that's somebody. Yeah. Same way with a song. Sometimes it just goes, "Oh, that's it."

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Delete everything else I've ever put out.

I want this one to be there. So, uh, you're playing a bunch coming into the spring summer. We're sticking around Texas for a minute. Okay.

And, uh, then we'll hit the road starting May. I've got some solo tours, which I'm excited. I've never I'm nervous about that because that means um just me those tickets. Y.

So, um, we're sticking around Texas a lot in the first quarter. Okay. Which is fun. I like that.

And uh um this is another sports opinion. I want to be an artist from Texas. I very much Texas is a big part of my brand. I want to be an artist from Texas.

I don't want to be a Texas artist, though. Okay. So, it's important to me to uh tour. Yeah.

I And I love it. Yeah. I think it's important nowadays, too. It's just everything's so spread out.

There's a lot of listeners everywhere. It's cool that we live and play in a state that you can make a living in this state and never have to leave. Unbelievable. Amazing.

Mhm. Still drive 9 hours. Not just last night. Listen, even tour this state.

Yeah. Listening to 959 the ranch where he was just like we play local artists that write their own songs. Just that simple thing is like gosh that doesn't happen literally anywhere else in the country. Yeah.

Like nowhere else in the country does that happen. And you're going to have people that buy tickets to come hear you play your own like stuff that you wrote without all like the machine behind it. It's incredible. Yeah.

So yeah, I'm with you. Um, when y'all air this, when y'all play this, is it played in the entirety? You're going to make it shorter. The podcast.

Yeah. Oh, no. We just We've been talking a long time. Yeah, we just let it roll.

I don't Anyone has been listening this entire time? They will. That's so Yeah. What?

Yeah, we cut a bunch of clips and stuff on TikTok, too. They comments and stuff, too. They Oh, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We let it.

And I'll be tagged and all that so I can see it and reply. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tic Tac. Insta. Insta. What's the other one?

Instagram, Facebook, YouTube shorts, Facebook and Instabbook. Facebook and Instabbook. Man, Facebook wears me the out. Facebook wears me out.

Yeah, I don't really get on it. I can't Everything I If I post, it's because it populated over there. Oh, Facebook wears me out. Yeah, I'm not into it.

It's just super spammy. It's super spammy. It's uh I just I can't figure it out. How come the main Facebook audience is are, you know, 45 to 65 yet I can't figure Facebook out, you know?

I just don't really think anybody's on it. I They're there. Really? They're there.

Huh. And they buy tickets and they're just flicking. We think kids are the ones doom scrolling on these apps. No, it's like a 65-year-old person just finding something they disagree with.

They will watch a video and they will read a caption and then on Tik Tok it's like, "Oh, you got to get them in the first three seconds or they're not there." Y it's three different jobs. Instagram, Tik Tok, and Facebook are three different entirely different and I'm just a songwriter. Yeah.

I mean, we just Yeah, we just cut the clips and stick them on there. Some do good, some don't, but a lot of it's just having cool people. So, yeah, that's why I was excited to talk to you. Thanks.

I like your honesty and your sincerity, too. For real. Genuineess. It's how do you do it if you don't super refreshing.

Yeah. Like before we started and you said anything like things you don't want to talk about. Yeah. I'll just steer you off if I don't.

Yeah. Yeah. It was a trick. It was a trick question.

Was it you still you were recording? You passed. We can't talk about this. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or like you just suddenly like turn on your accent or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's on camera, too, so everybody's seeing that I slouch and I have a pooch. But you know what all this is?

All this is a good time, guys. If you see a girl that has a pooch, that means you're probably going to like eat a good dinner and drink some good beer with that girl. So, don't think there's anything. This podcast is brought to you by Pooches.

Yeah. Go to http uh colonwww. pooches. com.

You didn't just say the WW. Well, you have to go to http back colon facebook. com. Yeah.

Back slashback slash summer. Damn. Well, that's where we'll end it. Okay.

I want to do it again at some point, though. Sure. I could talk to you forever. I love to talk about this stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Me, too. Yeah.

All right. Well, see y'all anyway. Yeah. I've been on camera this whole time.

Can you believe that? They gave me one. Where there was one, now there's two. Okay.

[Music] Just my rifle, my pony and me don't [Music] myrow a tree coming sweetheart darling. It's my rifle.