Shawn Weise

Full episode transcript, auto-generated from the audio and lightly formatted (verbatim, not edited).

[Music] my style. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Talk about too many irons in the fire.

You're like I can't tell exactly what if you had to describe what it is like the one thing that you do cuz you do a bunch of different things. Yeah. But what would be the thing that you would like identify like this is what I do for a living? Well, yeah.

It's Yeah. Back when I was a bull rider, it was easy. Somebody asked you I ride bulls. I'm a bull rider anymore.

I know. I, you know, I'm a self-proclaimed entrepreneur, but uh yeah, I mention everything. If somebody askked me, you know, if they're if they're wanting to know the answer, I'm like, "Well, I do this. I do I'm an agent for Bull Riders.

I'm have a you know, clothing brand, Western Lifestyle clothing brand, and uh recently I'm trying to write a few songs. I raised a few registered Brahman cattle. Uh, yeah, it's a full life, but it's um it's wrapped around everything I love. So, it's I can't complain.

So, what's the thing that takes up most of your time? Well, it's Vexel brand now, my the clothing. Um, for many years it was my agency cuz I had, you know, at one point I was representing probably 12 PBR writers and uh, you know, you start dealing with all those athletes, dealing with all their partnerships, trying to find new partnerships. I mean, it's uh, it's very time consuming.

U, but I've scaled way back on that. I'm down to three guys and uh, um, yeah, it's phasing out. You know, I've got a business partner on that who's an attorney up in Michigan and we've been business partners for 22 years. And uh we decided a couple years ago, let's sat on the horse and start riding towards sunset.

Ah, cuz uh it's just it's you know, all good things got to come to an end. But uh they're not coming to an end right now. I still Derek Kaba who's on the tour. We still um manage some deals that we had with JB Mooney and then Cody Thiel.

Um and then I'm helping Wayi Shala. Uh that's kind of not that's more related to my clothing brand because I've sponsored him since he was 12. Um but I'm managing his partnerships as well. But so that part's not just disappearing, you know, it will within the next 5 to 8 years probably.

But yeah. So, did you did you have an agent when you were Did you ride professionally? No. No, I didn't.

You like just high school rodeo? Prodeo. Oh, you did? Yeah.

Oh, okay. Um, yeah, I had my pro card and did the rodeo lifestyle for a number of years. And you were grinding. Yeah.

I mean, it was fun back then, right? And you didn't really think of it as a grind. It was just, you know, uh I mean, there's no better lifestyle when you're single, you know, not many bills, right? You're just on the road with your buddies and Yeah.

It's I wouldn't trade it for the world. What you know that experience? Yeah. It's not overly glamorous though when you're actually doing it.

No. Especially back in those days, right? It wasn't like I mean what people see today, you know, they turn on CBS Sports and there's bull riding. Yeah.

It wasn't that, you know, u you know, it was back in the day uh when you know before the PBR even started. Um, so it was, yeah, no name town rodeos and a lot of people liking the music thing to rodeoing or at least playing and touring live and stuff like that has some similarities, but the main difference that I've noticed is why like why people do it. Mhm. Um I find that there's a little bit there or typically there's a lot more like genuiness and authenticity and just a love of the game within rodeo cuz you occasionally see the glitz and the glam and the lights and the action and the cameras, but like more often like unless you're in the Perf like there's a lot of stuff where you're just in Slack.

Granted, some of the rough stock stuff is different, but uh you might not get nearly as much attention as people might think. In music or the entertainment business, it's all about attention, right? So, there's some people that just get into it because they're addicted to the attention and not necessarily like maybe the craft of songwriting or just because they love music. They're in it for the result.

Yeah. Right. But I find that most anybody that rodeos, there's so much loneliness and uh so much money that you lose and so much alone time. You really have to be in it for the love of the game more so than music in my opinion.

Yeah, that might be the case. Um it's um you know the loneliness maybe not so much as people might think because compared to music I mean obviously you're traveling with a band and you got road crew or whatever so you're around people but when you're rode on you typically have two or three guys that you're going with so you know it's not like you're by yourself. I mean there are those moments where you know your two traveling partners are hurt and you got to keep rolling right? So it does happen from time to time, but Yeah.

But isn't there even a loneliness? It all of it's riding on your shoulders. There's nobody to Oh, yeah. Yeah.

It's Yeah. Nobody to lean on. No. Yeah.

It's a You win, it's because of you. You lose, it's because of you. It's a lone wolf game. Yeah.

Um I mean, per se. I mean, it's It doesn't feel that way necessarily when you're out there because, you know, you're with your buddies, they're helping you, you know, when you know, when you're in the shoe, pull your rope, you know. So it really it doesn't feel like oh my gosh I'm by myself out here this is u this is horrible you know it does feel like you do have a team but when it comes down to competing and doing your craft yeah it's all on you so there is that aspect as well but yeah back mention mentioning slack there's not as much slack anymore for rough stock but back when I was riding I remember getting on an NFR bull at 9 in the morning in Willcox, Arizona. I was like, "What?

This is I mean, I'm glad I had this bull because I could win, but at 9 in the morning, I mean, come on." And like part of it, too, is like if you were to cover, it's like what? This isn't even your score. And yeah, there's no applause.

That's what I'm saying, dude. So, it's like you really have to be in it for Oh, yeah. Yeah. You got to you got to Well, I mean, if you're going to be uh a professional rodeo athlete, I mean, you've got to love it.

I If you don't have a love for it, you're not going to win. Probably you're not going to make it. Um you're going to fade out because it Yeah, there's elements of it that suck. Uh I mean, too much driving.

I mean, I don't miss that part. U I mean, when I was younger, it was great because I hadn't I hadn't been to California. I hadn't been to, you know, the Northwest. So, I was just on this vacation of seeing all these places I'd never seen before.

Uh, but once you get further in your career, you know, oh, I've, you know, I've been here, you know, then it becomes, that's when it really becomes a grind because now it's just I got to go to, you know, especially the Fourth of July, right? When you're trying to hit so many rodeos in that 10day period. Um, yeah, it's a grind. It Yeah.

And then injuries. Oh yeah. The worst injuries we ever have to deal with is cuz somebody drank too much. They did it to themselves.

Well, there's definitely those injuries. Then they're hung over the next. No doubt. So, yeah, I've heard a lot of people talking about that.

Just even the difference in the culture has changed pretty dramatically within rodeo. Oh, yeah. And I've had a, you know, cuz, you know, I retired and took a two-year break um just to break my addiction from, you know, cuz I didn't know who I was in that in that scene anymore when you're not, you know, you're not competing. So, I took a little hiatus from any kind of western sport.

I didn't go to rodeo. I didn't go to bull riding. Tried to play golf. But then once I got back into, you know, back into it through my being an agent, then I that's when over the last I mean I've been an agent for 24 years, so I've really seen the culture, you know, just shift into a um you know, it's still the same sport, but you know, you have different generations that grew up differently than I did than JB Mooney.

You know, I think JB Mooney was kind of the end of an era in a certain type of bull rider. Um cuz he had an old school mentality. Like he could have he could have had his bag in, you know, the you know, back when I was riding and fit right in that cuz he had that mentality. Uh but he really is the last of a dying breed from that generation I feel like or that kind of bull rider now.

It's more, you know, they're treating it more like a sport. You know, a lot of guys work out. I can't remember if anybody worked out when I was riding, but these days those guys take it serious, as they should, right? They're professional athletes.

So, I don't mind seeing some of the change, right? But that's probably one of the reasons I'm like it's time to move away from being an agent for bull riders because um you know it just I kept getting older and the bull riders just stay the same age. You're just dealing with 20-y old bull riders, right? And uh and I was able to hang in pretty well um by, you know, them knowing that I rode bulls.

So there was kind of a mutual respect there. I could walk in the locker room and I was just one of the guys, right? But anymore I'm, you know, I start seeing that separation to where now I'm at a point if I walk in that locker room, I'm like, I could be all of y'all's dad, you know? So it's like it's just this doesn't hit the same.

Interesting. It I would find that it would be the opposite. Like it would work better because you're more of a representative on the Yeah. business front.

I would think that it would work better if you were further in distance in age. I mean, maybe it could. Uh, not for me though, because I you know, that was part of the I mean, my whole why on doing it was I wanted to make bull riders more money outside the arena. Um, and that was my sole focus the whole time.

It wasn't about making money. I knew if I did my job, I made them money, I'd make money because it's a percentage gig. Um, and you know, and I wanted to make an impact on their lives, and I did. You know, there's, you know, I can't too many to count, but you know, one in particular, he owned 600 acres in Oklahoma.

He used all of his sponsor money, money that I got him to buy that land, and he owns it free and clear. Uh, and that's a lasting impact on his life. So that's why that was my why is to make a lasting impact on those bull riders lives. When you were riding, did you see a lot of guys that maybe just didn't make wise decisions?

Well, I still see it today. You still see it? Yeah. I mean, it's um Do you feel like that's changed?

Uh yeah, probably a little bit because you're dealing with more money for one. Um it's um maybe not, you know, not life-changing money for everybody, but enough to change your life a little bit to set you up when you retire that you don't have to go shoe horses. You know, you can hire somebody to run a business or you can start your own business to where you don't have to go get a nineto-ive job. You know, it's those guys are making enough money outside the arena to where if they do it right, they can set themselves up for the future.

Yeah. So, what was the big transition when you decided to I guess you quit? You said you took two years off when you were proing. You said you took two years off.

Did you come back and then you went No, I didn't ride again. That's when I quit riding. I took a two-year hiatus from I didn't go around western sports, you know. What' you do?

Well, I finished uh I finished school. I went to a uh a graphic design marketing uh school. It's kind of a specialty school and finished up and um was started a job with a label company doing designs for them and then started my own freelance graphic design business. Uh so I was, you know, moving on.

It's time to move on. Um, and uh, I just knew the reason I didn't go around it because like I said, I didn't know who I was in that setting. Um, and if I was going to go, you know, because every time I'd gone to a rodeo or a bull riding for 15 years, I was entered. So, I'm like, what if I were to show up, you know, like I didn't, what am I doing here?

I mean, I've seen enough bull riding and rodeos, I don't need to come watch, right? So, and it's almost like a drug, right? you have to uh cuz I could have kept riding. It wasn't a physical deal.

It was it was a mental thing, right? You get to a point to where the risk isn't, you know, the reward isn't worth the risk anymore. You know, at that when I quit, I just had um my first child. So, you know, my life was changing.

And it wasn't, you know, I'm like, it's not fair to this child for me to go be that selfish and do that dangerous of a thing. Uh, and it's different for every rider on once they get to that point. They have to they have to work. Somebody needs to write a book on it really.

And there might be a book on there because I think it's a um an issue for all athletes that compete at a certain level. Who they were come is coming to an end. Now they have to figure out who they are moving forward. And it's probably happens with NFL players, MLB, I'm sure, you know, it's the same type of mental issue that you have to work through to get to the other side.

But yeah, or even the idea of how selfish should you be because some of this stuff is all just a pipe dream, you know? There's things that I could have done with my life and probably made more money. Definitely made more money, uh, been more efficient with my time. Um, I even had opportunities to do other things and make more money.

Heck, I mean, I could just be a horseshoe now. Yeah. And, uh, make more money. Uh, and so there's always a question of I guess there's a level of selfishness.

I don't have any kids and it would definitely change if I had kids because there's a I've heard some folks tell me at all costs I was just going to make this happen no matter what. Yeah. Yeah, you know, even if they had kids and stuff and I'm like at all costs, like you sure you know, like what if you couldn't really take care of your kids the way that you should because you're not making enough money. You're still going to just like they're you know what I mean?

Like it feels like at some point you have to really have come to grips with that. Like sometimes dreams are great and hopes are great, but sometimes there's a reality to life. It's funny like it seems like the World War II generation would have been very get your business done, get a real job. there's no time for all this dreaming and stuff, right?

And then so maybe like the baby boomers were they got hit with a lot of that and then I think the baby boomers taught their kids to dream big. So it would be like the millennials, dream big, chase your dreams. So you got a bunch of kids running around that are like, you know, like you go into a coffee shop now and now it has some mission statement and huge story about why we started making coffee this way. It's like, bro, you make coffee, stop, not everything has to like change the world, you know?

Exactly. And there's a reality to life of I feel like we when we're like kind of moving back to that a little bit. I've had those conversations with myself that we've been afforded opportunities to dream. Yeah.

Like not most generations haven't even had the opportunity to dream. Yeah. Exactly. And maybe in some ways it's gotten a little out of control.

And I mean I'm the pot or whatever the kettle pot calling the kettle black like I'm here in a freaking video studio. Yeah. You know. No, I think dreaming is I mean I'm a big believer in I don't think Yeah.

There's a there's a culture out there that you know there Steve, you want coffee or anything? No, I'm good. Um, there. Yeah, chase your dreams.

Follow your dreams. But really, if you look at it, I look at it from a different perspective. I don't think enough people are following their dreams really because um I hear too many stories. You know, you talk to Joe Blow that you know, how's it going?

Job sucks. You know, there I'm just like, man, there's no way to live, you know. Uh it doesn't have to be some you know I think sometimes the definition of dreaming you know there's a you know people think oh it's being a rock star it's being a pro alete yeah there's those dreams but be real about it you know have a realistic dream you know I'm not going to go play in the NBA if I had that dream that'd be dumb you know that's a dumb dream yeah delusion so I think you reigning in your dreams to match where you're at. That's what I see people needing to do, right?

It's if you're uh because I hear too many people complain, you know, they don't like their job, but they got to do it, right? You got to make a living. Well, if you don't like it, make a change, you know, and too people too many people, they don't know how to make a change, right? they get they get stuck in their own life and they don't know okay what do I do well you got to hash it out I'm not saying go quit your job tomorrow but while you have that job what are you doing on the weekend right what are you doing when you get home from work are you sitting there watching binge watching Netflix shows well maybe instead of do that maybe start writing down some ideas on figuring out okay what can I do to make a shift to where my daily life I'm excited to get up and go do it.

That's what I talk about. It doesn't have to be some big flamboyant dream. It's being happy, right? Life's too short not to be happy.

And that's I think that's my frustration with people is, you know, or if you're going to complain about it but not do anything to change it. Yeah. I don't want to hear it. No.

Yeah. And some people are perfectly I'm not I'm not u bashing on a nineto-ive job cuz I'm not at all. I actually find it to be quite noble. That was actually kind of my point was there's people that raise kids and they don't have the luxury of uh or dude, I mean there's all sorts of stuff.

Maybe they have like a sick sibling that they have to take care of or they have a sick parent or you know their parents were dead beats and they had to take care of their younger siblings. It's like they weren't afforded the luxury of to just live in the clouds and just dream big. But often times some of those people live with like some of the most joy and contentment and happiness may. Yeah.

And contentment's a funny word too. Like it sounds dirty nowadays. Yeah. You know, in a way.

Yeah. Even in this type of conversation like contentment might seem like complacency, but I don't think they have to be the same thing. Well, I think content in the moment is the way I look at life. I'm content in the moment, right?

With my, you know, my daily life, right? I'm content. That doesn't mean I have to be completely satisfied. That doesn't mean I'm not going to work on some things to maybe change to a different contentment, right?

Um because I think contentment can lead to laziness and not doing what you're called to do. uh being too content, but I think you need to be content or patient is another word to describe it. I think uh while you work on some things to get to maybe another level in your life. So, do you think fear Oh, 100%.

I don't even know what you're going to say, but yes, fear. Maybe the main reason that people don't want to change things, like even if it's already something they don't want, they're still fearful of changing it because at least it's comfortable maybe. Yeah, people get comfortable. But yeah, the fear thing and um fear of failure, uh fear of what others think.

I mean, I think those are the two top two things when why people don't chase their dreams, why they don't why they're stuck. They're not willing to take a little bitty risk. It's like, what if I fail or what's everybody going to think if I start this car wash business? They're going to think I'm crazy, you know?

Then they don't then they don't. Yeah, but who cares, right? Cuz I don't really even buy into the idea that nobody's paying attention to you. Oh, people aren't even people aren't saying that.

You know, that type. It's like, yeah, they are. They're probably going to make fun of you. They're 100% gonna make fun of you.

Yeah. Like when you leave the party, they're gonna be like, "Dude, what is he doing?" They're gonna say that. Yeah.

And until you like it's the dangest thing you've ever seen. I mean, I know you've probably dealt with it, too. It's like you get like a little bit of success here and there and then some of the crazy stuff that you were doing suddenly is cool. Yeah.

There's a freaking uh I Yeah, I won't use any names, but there was uh there was this I went to high school with that um she said this to my face. Um and this was like a few years ago. She was there with her husband and she goes, "Yeah, I was talking to so and so uh the other day and I was like we were talking you came up in the conversation. We're like, "Oh my gosh, do you see what Jared's doing?

Like he's really doing well." And she like says this to my face. She's like I know. I told her I was like, "Oh my gosh, Jared like he like turned out to be like pretty cool."

I was like I was like I was like I actually like that she said it to my face, you know? Like I wasn't cool before. And then it was based on validation of everybody else. It's like now he's cool.

Yeah. Now he's cool. It's just like well I'm not doing anything different. It's just some more people like it.

Yeah. So, but being willing to deal with that, it's going to happen. Yeah. People aren't going to like it.

And that to me is the hard that's the hardest thing for me is dealing with I care what some people think. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. We're human, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would you would be lying if you said I don't care what anybody thinks.

A lot of people say that though. Yeah. And for the most part I don't but there's a select few. I care a lot what some people think.

Yeah. Some so I don't want um I mean yeah somebody that I respect you know if word got back to me if they said something you know about me you know that hurt. Yeah. I mean I'm not Yeah.

But that's life right? You're going to you're going to get hurt in life. It is it's no different than riding bulls. you're gonna get hurt and you know um you just got to keep pressing forward.

Um and sometimes I use that stuff as fuel, right? Uh when I first started my agency uh I cuz I'm not afraid to speak what I'm doing. Okay, I'm jumping off this cliff just letting y'all know. And uh I remember I had just started it and I told guy was older.

He was like old enough to be my dad, him and his son. and something came up conversation and I said yeah I'm starting an agency for represent professional bull riders and he yeah he didn't hold back he's like that's the dumbest thing bull riders don't need an agent you know and I'm like oh okay that's 24 years ago I haven't forgot it well did you ask him why he thought that no I didn't you know it was well I mean he came from a not this not the start of war or anything but he came from a timed event side on rodeo. Um, and you know, maybe it was that maybe he didn't like bull riders and you know, he couldn't wrap his head around, you know, a rough stock rider needing an agent. Interesting.

And uh, so I, you know, I stuck that in my back pocket and um, I've remembered it and of course I mean doesn't I didn't care what he you know it's not like I was brokenhearted because I respected him so much he'd say that. I didn't have that kind of relationship with that guy, but it was enough of a fuel to get me rolling and u you know hopefully along the way that guy saw what I did. It's really interesting that you did the graphic design deal. Yeah, cuz you pro you were just trying to do something different and it ends up leading.

So, did you create a lot of the designs for your brand Vexel? All of them. Oh, wow. So yeah, I've always had like a creative mind.

Um, and um I kind of just knew that, you know, I was always fascinated by branding with, you know, different companies and, you know, commercials and you know that whole world marketing and uh I found a school ironically in San Francisco, California, which I was a fish out of water on those two years when I finished that school. Um, are you where are you from originally? Down by Houston. Oh, wow.

But life I was telling these guys, they asked me where I was from. I said, I grew up outside of Houston, went to high school in Louisiana and then, you know, you just one day you wake up and you're somewhere else. I lived in California for a while and uh for the most part I spent a lot of time in Idaho for 20 years. So I've been all over.

But So you went to design school in California, San Francisco. Yeah. Talk about I would drive I lived in the valley. Uh, so, uh, Central Valley.

So, it was about a 2h hour, hour and 45 minute drive to San Francisco. And I'd go over there on a Tuesday, go to class Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, then come back home. But, man, those Yeah. Talk about Yeah.

And I haven't been back to San Francisco. I've heard San Francisco's gotten worse. I'm like, worse? Gee whiz.

When I was there, it was I mean, there's homeless people on the sidewalks and um, yeah. So, it was it was wild. I mean, but it was cool at the same time, right? It was How long were you there?

Uh, well, I went to school for almost two years there. So, I mean, it was like a stray, it was an accelerated deal. And, um, so I spent a lot of time in San Francisco. And, uh, but I've never been, you know, one that, uh, I like experiencing new things.

And maybe that's the creative mind to me. I mean it was although it was weird at times you know I soaked it all in right because it was like this is so not my world but it's cool to see right um so that's the graphic design I get went to that school and it wasn't just a graphic design school it was they implemented you know I had a lot of marketing classes a lot of like advertising classes so then they you know they brought it all together right how graphic design relates to marketing how marketing relates to advertising and you know so it you know a lot of that I um learned at that school you know I've taken and um you know I understand brands better and obviously when I started my agency well that's you know who I'm going after these big brands and so I kind of understood them not completely but I had enough knowledge to know okay I know what you're going for here from a branding perspective or a marketing perspective. So, it really helped me in my agency. Yeah.

So, the design thing was something you just kind of put in your back pocket when you were done with it and then you jumped right into Yeah. Well, I actually used it in um in my agency, too, a little bit. I mean, not a ton, but like schematics, you know, like the there's a there's a um a vest, you know, the vest the guys wear and a shirt schematic that I think some other agents are probably using and I designed it. I did it because you could do a mockup, right?

If you're trying to pitch, you know, Monster Energy, you know, you put the logo on the vest so they get a visual, okay, this is what the gear is going to look like. So yeah, I used I used it even in my agency to some extent. But on the front end of going to design school, did you have a plan that was what you were going Oh gosh. No, when I was going to school, that was in my hiatus from I didn't know if I'd ever go to the rodeo again in my life.

Right. So you graduated and Yeah. I started working at a label company. I was uh designing labels for all kinds of food brands.

And then I started my freelance graphic design business and was doing like local, you know, logos for uh the region, you know, construction companies, whatever. Then I started I got a gig designing because I had some experience working for that label company. I started designing packaging for um uh some food plants like frozen fruit brands and u so that's what that's when I started the agency I mean that's how I was making a living through that business uh because the agency I mean it was not an overnight success it took a while to get up off the ground uh but I just stuck with it and uh made it work but yeah and a lot of the brand partnerships and sponsorships That was mainly what you were trying to go after and handling. Correct.

Sponsorships, brand partnerships. Was that a lot of relationships you already had? No. So that was all stuff that you No, it Yeah.

To start it was cuz this was back when the PBR was just starting to, you know, grow. And um I learned in a hurry. I bit off more than I could chew maybe cuz I was trying to I was trying to call companies, right? Oh, here's what I'm doing.

I'm amped up about it. Let's go. you know, you need a sponsored professional bull rider. But I learned in a hurry that I couldn't use the acronym PBR because they didn't know what it was.

Are you talking about past blue ribbon? I mean, what are we talking about here? PBR. What year would this that would have been 200 two?

Yeah. One, two. So, isn't that wild that just doesn't feel like that long ago? No.

And today to show, you know, the good work that PBR's done and how they've grown. I mean, I could call I feel comfortable calling any brand and they'd know what I was talking about. Yeah. There was just massive growth in the early 2000s for the PBR.

Huge. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It Yeah.

I got a front row seat to it all. And, you know, hopefully I was um, you know, an intricate part in helping them grow because I brought Monster Energy to the sport, you know, so uh, and obviously they're the title sponsor now. So that was uh I mean that's pretty cool to look back on and see you know it's probably impossible to draw a straight line to how did you get Monster Energy? I'm sure that was a gradual process.

Yeah, it was I mean it wasn't overnight. It was um See that was 2000 See we brought their first year they had a team of guys in 2011. Um, so probably 2008 was when we started knocking on their door. We had a guy helping us.

Uh, because really it becomes a numbers game when you're trying to find partnerships. You're just trying to get you're just trying to have a conversation, get, you know, get to the right person to have that conversation. And uh, so we had this guy helping us just knock on doors and I was too. Um, and he's the one that knocked on the monster door and got it open.

And then the plan was if he got it a contact, then I came through the door. And um, and that was, you know, he'd been knocking for a year and a half. And then once I got in the door, it took me a year and a half to get him to do anything. So yeah, a lot of those logos you see on TV, it's they just don't show up out of thin air.

they, you know, there's some groundwork behind the scenes that um that happens, but um yeah, once they got on board, once I got them to a live event, um you know, and that was my goal all along, especially with a brand like that, they're already in extreme sports, right? Supercross, skateboard, and all that. So, I knew I said, "Okay, I need to get you to a live event so you can see with your own eyes that it's just not a bunch of rednecks getting on farm animals here, right?" So, and I did I brought kind of Well, yeah.

I mean, depends on the angle you look at it, but uh I brought um uh the guy Mitch who at the time was the director of sports or director of motorsports for Monster. And uh but the reason he's from Alabama and that was a key element in the whole story because they're a Southern California company and next thing I'm talking to a guy from Alabama. I knew I had a shot at that point and if I would have talked to some Southern California suit may not have gone my way. But as soon as I heard his accent I was like okay we got a shot.

And there was something sort of synonymous with the PBR. The Monster or the Monster uh sponsorship and logo with the PBR was so kind of iconic at the time. I couldn't really even separate them. And Rockstar, I remember Rockstar being like really Yeah.

Well, they were when I brought Monster on, Rockstar was the official energy drink for the PBR. And then uh because the PBR doesn't have any rules, you can bring whoever you want. And so I'm like, well, I'm going after Monster. They're way bigger than Rockstar.

Now you're saying like for your individual athletes, not that I didn't never I didn't work for the PBR. I worked just for the athletes. So I'm all about the athletes. Did you end up Did you buy into the PBR?

No. You never Okay. No. No.

No. I was I mean I was really a I mean kind of an outsider in the PBR cuz I wasn't they knew my agenda and it was all about the athletes. I wasn't about I mean I supported the PBR because that's where my athletes competed and made money. But when it come to sponsorships my time was I because back to my goal right my why was I want to make I don't want to make the PBR money.

I want to make the bull riders money. So that's that was my focus all along. So it I mean it worked out with um I mean Monster getting obviously the PB they became a PBR partner. Um and I after I got I created that team of riders uh in 2011.

I had a four-man team of riders. They just showed up right all of a sudden monsters involved. And I told my guy Mitch, I said, "Hey," him and I became pretty close. And I said, "Hey, now that you know the PBR knows you're interested in their sport, they're going to come after you."

Uh, cuz they know you have way more money than Rockstar. I said, "They're not going to come to me. Even though they know I brought you, they're I just know how it works." His name was Mitch.

Mitch. Yeah. And he uh that he was that monster. Yeah.

He's still now he's the VP of sports marketing. Holy cow. So he went up the ladder, but he uh yeah, I've got total respect for that guy because he told me, he goes, "Look, about a month later, they reached out to him and he called me." He goes, "You're right.

They contacted me." He goes, "But I got your back." He goes, "They want to have a meeting." He goes, "Fly down.

You're going to be at the meeting." Like, "All right." So they show up and of course I knew, you know, I knew everybody at the PBR and they show up and I'm in the room. So it was it was kind of fun.

Mitch loved it. You know, that's kind of his personality. He likes shock and awe, right? So, actually, the funny thing in that meeting, oh my gosh, because I knew Mitch.

I knew the brand, right? I'd already been, you know, I'd studied that brand before we even got to deal with him. And now I got to deal with him. I really dove into the brand and knew it.

And I knew Mitch and I was like, he's going to say something this meeting that's going to just blow their socks off. And uh sure enough, he go they was like, "Well, we want to learn more about Monster." You know, they're all suited up and professional. And Mitch, you know, he's in jeans and a t-shirt.

And uh they uh they said, "We want to, you know, tell us more about your brand." And the brand goes, "Well, that's pretty easy, Monster. We're an FU brand." And then he didn't say FU, he said the word.

And I'm just like, and they're all their eyes are all that big. But that's how that is that brand. He was right. That's how they go about things.

They just, you know, they don't care what you think of them and they're going to do them. It's interesting that you the PBR would be shocked by that when like outside looking in, you would think professional bull riders. Yeah. Well, if he would have said that in the locker room Yeah.

They'd be like, "Hell yeah." Yeah. They would have cheered, right? But it, you know, to the there's a difference between the PBR locker room and the PBR corporate headquarters that, you know, it's not the same people.

So, um, yeah, and that's why they got in the sport. Yeah, they you're right that is a bull riders mentality, right? So, the brand just fit perfectly with it. And, uh, of course they, you know, they went on and became the official energy drink.

And uh well he told me he goes, "If I'm interested in doing this deal, I told you I've got your back. We're going to hire you to manage the whole thing." Cuz that's how Monster works is if they're in Supercross, if they're in surfing, no matter what extreme sport they're in, they put somebody in charge that knows the sport. Well, there's nobody else in Monster that knew the sport, right?

So I ended up consulting for him for 10 years directly with the PBR. So that's how you ended up now. Now I'm in the meeting when we're talking about the Was there any weirdness there? H no they I mean I don't have any bad things.

I mean I know too much, right? I was in too many rooms and I could I could say all kinds of stuff, but that's not who I am. There's good people at the PBR. I've never Well, and that could happen with probably any organization.

Oh, yeah. It's Yeah. I've never had a beef with them. Have I butted heads?

100%. Yeah, I butted heads along the way, but I think overall they knew where I stood. You know, when I went to those events, I was going to have the events there for a number of years. Well, I didn't go I didn't go there and then go have dinner with, you know, somebody at the PBR.

I went and had dinner with Bull Riders. I was just one of them, right? Which I think for some people that worked at the PBR, I mean, they saw it. I think it was hard for them to wrap their head around, you know.

Um, yeah, but you had rode, too. You came out of that world. Yeah. I'd rather hang out with bull riders than somebody that was just, you know, a suit working for the organization.

It's more fun than hanging out with the bull riders. Yeah. No doubt. So, uh, was there a lot of guys doing what you were doing at that time?

No. Well, the reason I started was I'm good friends with Cody Kuster and u he uh he had called me well I had called him the NF he was at the NFR and had a sticker on the back of his of autotrader. com and uh this is when I was in my hiatus right but I still watch the NFR and I remember after the finals I called him and I just check in with him and then I asked him man how much they pay you for that they were like full screen on your the TV and he told me I was like, "Well, it wasn't enough, you know." So, I mean, he's a good friend.

I can tell him whatever. But, uh, he ended up calling me probably like a month later. He got his wheels got spilling. He goes, "Man, I got to thinking you need to be an agent."

He goes, "There's a guy doing it now and he's crooked. Bull riders are already pissed off at him." He goes, "It's just not good for the sport." He goes, "You rode you, you know, you've got a marketing mind.

He is I think, you know, he's building me up. I think you can go and do it. And I thought on it a while. And for me, you know, it's the way I've been my whole life.

Uh I was like, heck yeah, I can do it. You know, I'll jump off this cliff and go give it a try. I mean, I didn't know how hard it was actually going to be, but u So that's why I got started right there. Um Did you just do it all kind of handshake deal with my bull riders?

Yeah. Yeah. Cowboy. Yeah.

If I started today, I wouldn't. But because it's I don't understand as much, right? I knew who I was dealing with. And I didn't go pick I mean, I picked my guys, right?

I um You picked some pretty good ones, too. Oh, yeah. I think I did some good deals along the way. But my whole mindset with no contract and my business partner's, he's an attorney and he was on board with it.

Heck yeah, we're cowboys. That's how we do business. Handshake. And uh so I know I told the guys I left it in their lap.

I said, "Look, I'm an old school cowboy. I can shake your hand, look you in the eye, tell you what I'm going to do for you, and my word means the world to me. That's what I'm going to do. My handshake's worth more than a piece of paper.

But if you feel more comfortable doing a contract, you know, we'll do a contract." Of course, I'm dealing with bull riders. Anyone do a contract? like, "No, my handshake's good, too, you know, and it worked out, you know, perfectly."

Uh, and I think that was a that was another uh, you know, I think I had their respect, but when you start your business off with them that way, it's even more respect because um, I mean, they're cowboys, right? that if they don't want to be thrown a piece of paper and be, you know, like overwhelmed with, oh, I got to sign a contract, right? That I knew them because I was them, right? I could look at whoever I'm talking to.

I'm like, how would I have dealt with this? Yeah, that's what I would have wanted to do is just shake somebody's hand and been there because my whole deal was is it was a relationship for me. That was the most important. And I told him like, I don't want my relationship with you tied to a piece of paper.

You know, I don't want you to feel like you're in prison because of a piece of paper. Like even if I had a contract and you came to me, this ain't working out for me. I'd rip it up cuz the relationship's more important to me than you know this business deal we have. It's tough, man.

You never really find out somebody's character until the hits the fan. Yeah. And I'm not saying it went perfect along the way. I mean, I can count on one hand.

There's some guys that moved on and uh and I could I feel comfortable calling those guy. I could call them today and go have lunch with them. I mean, it's not because at the end of the day, it was about the relationship, you know? It's not about our business, not the business relationship, the real relationship, right?

And that's how I went about it. And um you know, you don't burn bridges in this industry. I mean, yeah, I'm not really interested in doing it just in life in general. It's not something that I've Yeah.

No, conflict resolution is something I've become obsessed with in the last 10 years. Yeah. You know, like whether it's marriage or a friendship or a business relationship, if you can power through it, come to some sort of common ground, everybody can keep their wits about them, keep their cool, try to like empathize with the other side a little bit. Yeah.

Uh, and then it usually your relationship ends up being stronger. Yeah. Uh, so it's like not so I hate it. I hate conflict.

I just freaking hate it. Who? I mean, maybe there's some people that love it, but there's some people that like to stir the pot and do that whole thing. They thrive off that, which I never understood, but Yeah.

Just be a troublemaker, Billy badass kind of thing. I've never Well, that's a good I like you've learned that at a young age because I don't I struggle with it for sure. Well, I mean, yeah. No, like I said, nobody's perfect, but the sooner you can grasp onto that, you know, that's going to put you leaps and bounds above other people that haven't down the road.

For sure. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah.

And you know, when I come at a lot of this stuff from like a spiritual perspective, like the verse that just reverberates in my head all the time, whether I'm like at shows or like whatever I'm doing is what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul? Yeah. That to me is just like one of the most compelling and it can just be applied to so many different circumstances. And often times I'm telling myself that, you know, you just, you know, maybe you're like hanging out with some people that deep down, you know, like, God, I really don't like these people, you know, or like you have to make some sort of little subtle adjustment to your own.

Maybe they say something you disagree with and because of who they are, you don't call them on it. Or, you know, whatever, whatever it might be, and you just or you might see the way some other people act or operate and you can almost just see like the world chipping away at their soul. Yeah. And then they just get a little bit further down the road and then they're kind of Yeah.

devoid of any, you know? Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Too many pe there's too many people in this world that I think are sacrificing their soul for whatever it may be, you know. Yeah. And it's not the sign the dotted line deal with the devil.

I think that's far more subtle than Oh, 100%. And it happens just at little moments. Yeah. And it's easy to do.

I mean, I've been there. I mean, we're all human, right? I think you do it on a daily basis. That's the constant battle.

Yeah. Like Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure.

You know? Yeah. Yeah. And that's the whole deal like with Christianity.

People shy away from it because they're afraid of judgment, right? I think Oh, what do you mean? They shy away from it in the sense of uh don't want to Well, they know they're not perfect, right? Okay.

So, it's like, well, I don't hang around Jared. He, you know, I know he's trying to live, right? Oh, well, I'll probably I'd probably make most people feel pretty comfortable with themselves. There you go.

Well, me, too. I'm probably in that same the starting point we all start at is a little different, you know. But I think over I, you know, in the big perspective, I think people shy away from um uh God um because of their own guilt. So it's just like afraid of accountability.

Yeah. And not that they don't want to change, it's just you know how it is. I mean once you learn what you know being a Christian is all about once the real reason right the relationship once again getting back to the relationship that's you know what it is for me it's a relationship with God um it's not about trying to live a perfect life because I know I can't I know I'm going to like you say daily make a mistake that doesn't live up uh but I've learned that's covered, you know, uh through the cross. So, I can step out every day in confidence knowing that I know I'm going to screw up, but no different than the Mitch story, but I know God's got my back.

He know he's there for me. Well, and then even grow I grew I'm from here in Decator, so I mean we got a million churches and just culturally you grow up like around Christianity and so, you know, I gave my life to Christ a thousand times growing up. And then nothing really changes though, right? You still like struggle with all the same types of I think each of us have their own little propensity to sin in different ways.

There's certain things we might like. Like some people maybe don't like I knew guys that could care less about hooking up with girls, right? Not that they were gay or something, but they just like that wasn't like that just wasn't what they were into. Um but good grief, like drugs, that was just, you know, they were into that.

Or um maybe they were just mean like they didn't struggle with some other things or maybe they were super just jealous people but then in other areas of their life they were seemingly like pretty good dudes but they just had this little jealous thing. I think we all struggle with like different little kind of like proclivities to certain types of sin for sure. And what I had noticed growing up is like through the preaching of the gospel at most churches and stuff they never talked about the change that happens. It was always like you have to change and um maybe sin less to be Christian, right?

Or if you are a Christian, that means you will sin less, which is true, but that's not like on your own strength. And it wasn't until I got a lot older, and it's actually when I got saved, I got saved when I was like 26. Uh, and it wasn't until I got a lot older that, uh, I finally heard about like, and it's so obvious, too, cuz it's when Jesus is talking to Nicodemus and he says, uh, you know, like, "How do I get how he says, "How do I get saved?" And he says, "You got to be born again."

And he's like, "What is born again?" Yeah. He's like, "I've already been born once." He's like, "Well, you got to be born of the spirit.

You've been born of the flesh, you got to be born of the spirit." And he's like, "What are you talking about?" And then he's like, "Yeah, you see the trees move, but you don't see where the wind is blowing from." It's like what I mean that's not what you heard when you were growing up at Bible camp.

It was like I want to get I want to go to heaven and they're like say this prayer. Yeah. Exactly. And they're like you're in like what?

That's not even what Jesus did. And he was the dude, you know. So it wasn't until I got older that it was like the idea of uh cuz he refers back to the Old Testament where he says like I'll take out your heart of stone and give you a heart of a flesh like a new heart with a new spirit. New desires, right?

So like your old ways, you don't desire them as much. Which doesn't mean that like you don't you don't sin anymore. That's not what it means. You it doesn't even mean that you don't sometimes struggle with those things, but how you feel about it.

Yeah. Definitely changes. And I think over time that's like the process of the whole thing of him changing you gradually just like and you we fight it. It's like yeah, I don't know why I love cigarettes, you know?

It's like just that they just gradually just works on you and it's tough to see certain people and make like a heavy judgment on whether or not they're like saved or in the club or out of the club cuz you don't know where their starting point was. Yeah. Like my oldest sister was like such a good gal and like just didn't struggle with hardly well I mean say didn't struggle but she was just a really good gal. So her transition into being a Christian like in high school didn't look that extreme.

Right. mine was a little bit more profound, right? And so she would always struggle with like, well, I mean, how do I know if I'm saved? Like everybody around me always has these big stories and I'm like, well, that was a blessing that you didn't go down some of those roads.

Yeah, exactly. Anyways, that's my It's a Sunday, so I thought Yeah, there we go. We have a little church. Have a little church.

Oh, yeah. I'm I mean, it really comes down to u love and forgiveness really. If you want to try to narrow it down, I mean, that's what God's about, right? He is love it says you know um and I think if we you know it says the whole you know live like Jesus u it's sounds cliche but really that's the whole game plan really go out and what did he do he loved people and he accepted people he didn't care you know he was talking to you at the bar you're smoking a cigarette with him while you're having conver well he'd meet people where they were at but he would still make a call to Oh yeah, he spoke truth.

Yeah. Yeah. Speak truth. But yeah, it wasn't that pretentious, judgmental.

It was also like a I'll change you. Don't worry. Yeah. Don't change yourself to be closer to me.

Oh, yeah. You don't you don't you won't. No, you don't take a bath to take a shower, right? Ah, there you go.

So, um Yeah. Yeah. Relationships. That's why I try and I'm an introvert naturally.

So I've got a small circle. Um but even at that, you know, I think the whole world relationships with each other, with God first obviously, but then with each other, that's what this world's about. It's not about making money. It's not about these material things.

God, everybody says that though. And then it's like those things are great, but that's not the most important. I know. But when the freaking hits the fan, you find out where people like really stand on some of that.

Like often times Yeah. It's just life's disappointing, you know? Well, it's not Yeah. It's a fallen world.

Definitely. Yeah. Definitely. But that's the thing.

I'm not saying like those things. Um I mean, I've got a zen in right now. I enjoy nicotine. I'm not saying it's right.

U I want to Hey, dude. I did get freaking destroyed. Micah, do you remember that from the uh there was some pod I did a zen. I don't know what it is.

Like all growing up, if I did a dip of snuff, I would throw up in 5 minutes. I don't know why, but I could I could rip a carton of Marbor Reds be fine. Uh and I took a Zen. You know who Slade Culture is?

He's a singer, too. But uh I did a Zen with him and I think it was only like a three or a six or something. And dude, I did it on a podcast. first time I ever did one and like about 15 minutes in I was like started sweating a little bit.

So anyways, we posted a clip of it and uh it like went viral in like Norway or something. Oh, like in Scandinavia, something real random. But apparently they do it's where like some of these little snuff packets originated from. I think that's where Zen's B they're from like Sweden.

Sweden or something. Okay. Yeah. So they just roasted me cuz they're like this guy's freaking pansy.

Dude, there was people saying they do like 150 mgram zins cuz this was a six. So they said that he's like I pop two 150s every morning. I would die on another level. I would literally die.

Well, I've got Funny thing is a buddy of mine who lives in Austin, uh, he found a store and they had some nines and, uh, he sent it's Zen, but he sent it to me. That's a nine. You got nines? Oh, oh, there you go.

But, but it's the nine Zen was from like it's from overseas and u he sent it to me. He sent it to me about a month ago. It's still sitting in that truck. I thought when I thought about it like popping one of those before I came in here, I'm like, you know what?

I need to test one of those out when I'm by myself. I'm not going to do that on the podcast. I wonder why that tears me up because I got a buddy that dips snuff, but if he smokes a like he could have one cigarette and he's like got to go to bed. Yeah.

Well, I used to do Copenhagen and I remember when the Zens first started coming around, I was in the locker room at a PBR and uh somebody had some and we're having a conversation. I'm like, I don't know about those. I'd never had one. And uh Chase Outlaw uh comes walking in there, joins our conversation.

He goes, "What are y'all talking about?" He zen. He goes, "Oh man, I tried one of those that it knocked me on my ass." I'm like, "If it knocked you on your ass, I ain't touching them."

No kidding. So, but I remember when the when I first, you know, gave up the tobacco and started these. Yeah. It's a transition because it's kind of a little Yeah.

It hits a little different pokier. Yeah. Yeah, dude. I can't I can't dip.

But I used to chew Red Man. Oh yeah. Like I used to chew just loose leaf. Oh god, I loved it.

Tastes like raisins. Yeah, it's the best. I'd buy that plug tobacco. I don't do that anymore.

I cut that one out thankfully. Uh but just those blocks. Yeah. Just take a Levi, dude.

There was just Oh yeah. They used to make those Red Man. Remember in college this kid always had them. They were like, you know those jerky sticks?

Yeah. Yeah. That red man like that. You just rip it out and take Yeah.

I think that's I think that's plug. Well, and then I saw people in Scotland that I almost got some but they wear it like a necklace at the back. It's a necklace of loose sleep and they just take off or buy it but I don't really know. I don't know how they keep it attached.

I think they tie it off after they bite it. That's wild. I think it's in Scotland. Huh.

That is probably so wrong. But I think I read it somewhere one time. I know. I can't Scotland.

I don't know them for plugged tobacco, but really maybe so. Yeah. I mean I also didn't know that about Scandinavia with tobacco. Yeah.

And genetically for them to be able to just do Yeah, that seems crazy. Although I did know a guy that um uh he used to work with my brother at Yeti and my brother was telling me u and he was I guess had a past history of you know bad drugs and he got obviously clean off of that but now he's Yeah. And it was something I can't remember because I'd be lying if I said the number, but it was it was something like 50 mg, you know? It was like crazy.

Like he was getting these special ones from overseas. That's what he did. I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's Yeah. At the time I wasn't doing them."

I'm like, "That still sounds like a lot." And I don't even do it, but it seems extreme. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Genetically, they like clearly have some thing where they can They say they help your think. It helps you think. Nicotine. Yeah.

Dude, what they don't talk about with nicotine is uh artery damage. It causes arterial damage. It does. Yeah.

Plaque buildup. Just a straight nicotine. Yep. Just nicotine.

Thanks for telling me. Yeah, I learned that one. Yeah, that one is true. The plug tobacco in Scotland.

I'm not positive that's true. We have to we have to Google that one. Google. Did you say your brother works for Yeti?

He used to. He did for eight years. How many siblings you got? Two younger brothers.

Oh. So now he uh he um he started their whole uh when they hired him eight 10 years ago. I can't remember exactly when it was. Um he ranch and rodeo manager.

Um they created a new position and he got hired for Is that when they started doing some of those uh what features of like different rodeo? Like they did that one with was it beay or who was Oh yeah, my brother did all that. He was all in. Was that with Derek?

Who was that with? Yeah. Yeah, he did. They did a feature on Derek.

Yeah. Um I'm pretty sure that's the one thing. It was like really slick. Yeah.

No, when he was when he told me he was interviewing for that job, I was like, "Man, you got to get that job." because I'd already been knocking on Yeti's door uh probably for two years and I'd had a couple email correspondents just I couldn't get on the bite. U and so when he told me he was interviewing for that job, I'm like, "Oh, you need to get that job. I got I'll make you look like a hero, you know, big brother make the little brother look like a hero."

And um and he got the job and uh I was like, "Here's the plan." I said, "For the finals, the PBR finals, um, I'll cut you a sweet deal. Uh, I mean, you got to they got to pay some money, but I'll cut you a, you know, sibling deal to make you successful, make you look good, and hopefully we can start go bigger from there." And, uh, yeah, sure enough, we got, you can go back and see the pictures, that finals had a Yeti patch on JB Mooney, I think, on Chase Outlaw.

It may have been only those two. And uh I knew I told my brother like JB's gonna win. He's gonna win the world this year and you're going to look like hero. And sure enough, JB wins his first world title with the It's not even the logo they use now.

It's like a white patch with a blue Yeti on it. You go back and look at some of those pictures and now you know the backstory on that. Was that the first year he was there, JB? No, your brother.

Uh yeah, yeah, he had even been there a year. Yeah. And uh of course, you know, now he can go, we got the world champion bull rider, JB Mooney. And uh so he got a victory and we started the sponsorship program.

And they still sponsored uh I mean JB, they sponsored my other guy, Derek Kaba and Cody Teal. It's still going from however long ago that was. What was the How did JB come about? How did you Because you've had him since he started.

No, no, not since he started. It was uh JB um was his mom handled all his stuff for years and um JB didn't care about it. He didn't want to deal with that. He just wanted to be wild bull rider.

Right. Yeah. And uh I uh when I was cuz I was consulting for Monster Energy and uh I wasn't necessarily I wasn't going to go try I knew I don't try to get involved with family stuff, right? I don't want anything to do with that.

U so I respected okay your mom does all your stuff but once I started consulting me and Mitch talk I'm like we need to go get JB Mooney on this team. Um, and uh, so I went and talked to JB uh, I knew him already, right? I seen him at the events and um, talked to him and got the deal done. I can't remember if that went through his mom or um, I mean, all the stories blend together anymore, but anyway, got him on the team.

Um, and then it wasn't long after that, a year later, he was he had a falling out with his family and um, he was needing an agent. He's won an agent and um, he talked to me and then he talked to another agent and uh, I mean, I know what sold him on him coming with us. I mean, obviously he asked around, you know, guys we already represented on how we did business, but u I mean, the Handshake Cowboy deal was obviously right up his uh alley. Uh and then I told him like, "Look, anything you have right now, I'm not going to touch.

I mean, um I'm not going to take a commission off of it. You know, whatever sponsors you have now, I mean, we'll do whatever we need to do to keep that relationship going." I said, "But we're not here. We're here to get you new sponsors and take care of you."

Uh, and he just, you know, I think he respected that and u Yeah, he decided to go with us. Um, and u Yeah, it worked out great. When was that? And I don't know, quite a while ago.

I'm trying to think. had to been see 11 12 around 2014. Yeah, somewhere in there. When did he retire?

18 197. No, last Well, time flies. Oh, yeah. You're right.

It was he broke his neck. He went Well, from the PBR, he you know, he quit going to those and then he rodeoed the last his last two years. Um, so that was just a couple years ago, I think. He broke his neck.

Yeah. year and a half ago, I think. So, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't talk to I need to call him more. We text every now and then, but uh Randy Cret, who I, you know, hung out with the other night, is um working with JB on that new Bucktown thing he has. And um so he's got some good things going since he retired.

Uh but he made the comment and like I make it a point, I don't ever ask any of my guys about retirement. uh you know just cuz I don't want to be any it's already hard to for those guys to retire so they don't need me asking them. I just you know I just keep moving along till they tell me otherwise. And uh I knew JB for sure, you know, he had already made a comment years prior that um you know when some other uh guys had retired and the PBR did this big deal on them at the finals and they had to stand out there and you know and JV was like I ain't telling nobody when I retire.

I'm just not going to show up. That was his deal. I'm like okay sounds like a plan. And uh but he'll admit, you know, him getting hurt like that.

Although it sucked, right? It was probably the best thing to get him to quit cuz I'm not sure he was going to quit cuz his he had it burned in his brain so hard that he could do ride any bull ever born. And he just he's a t wild tiger. Like that's how I explained him when it came to that mentality on bull riding.

for him to say, "I'm done." would be the that would have been without being hurt. That I don't know if he could have done it. It would have been the hardest decision for sure he had ever made because he had burned in his mind so hard that nothing can throw me off.

I don't you know, he didn't even look at his body, right? Even when he was hurt, that mentality is what made JBJ JB Yeah. And it's sort of seared in our culture, too. Yeah.

sometimes not in a good way where it's if you quit doing something it's like you're a quitter. Yeah. Exactly. Which is like well there's sometimes you just got you just got to wrap things up you know or working certain types of jobs that are just like you know like if you're breaking colts or shoeing horses or it's like your body's breaking down.

It's like well but I'm not you know I ain't a quitter and you know and like just tough it out. It's like well you only have one body. Yeah. You know, there's like a reality to this as well.

This isn't about being soft or being a pansy. Yeah. No, and that was probably what that the whole us scaling back on, you know, XG Sports, the agency is I there's been some major changes happened with the PBR the last what, four years with the whole team deal and the individual tour, you know, going from where it was just year round to now it's, you know, scaled down. Um, and that probably had a lot to do with me making the decision.

Okay, it's time to go a different direction or this not me. My main focus at least. Uh, because if that would have never happened, I probably would have been just like JB. I'd probably just still be grinding, you know, finding the next, I call it high, right?

I you know come go get some brand that has nothing to do with western culture and get them to spend some money in this you know that was my high over the years. I mean they were few they didn't happen every day right but you know from Monster Energy to um you know the Yeti deal to the Levis's um to you know on the rodeo side I did Team Chevy rodeo. Those big those big projects are what kept me going. Yeah.

The little ones were fine. I had to do that to pay the bills and get guys paid. But my I was always focused on who's the next who's the next big one that we're going to bring and shocking all the world that they're involved in professional bull riding. But that's where you transitioned into doing this clothing brand.

Yeah. Well, I'd already started it which my wife Yeah. She's We're different, right? Opposites attract.

She's more security, you know. I'm like, "Well, you're going on a ride with married to me." Well, fortunately, you guys are different enough. That's good.

My wife and I are like the exact same. Oh, great. Oh, man. If me and my wife were the same, we'd be broke.

Well, there you go. Nice video studio here. Yeah. I got to figure I got a barrel racer wife.

She's got a musician husband. Yeah. That's just Hey, all I see is just money flying out the window, bro. But fortunately, Yeah.

Yeah. We're uh Yeah, we're dreamers for sure. Well, that's cool, too. I mean, but that would be a tough That's a challenge for sure because she My wife keeps me grounded.

I mean, I do what I'm going to do and she knows it. Um Oh, you're jumping off the cliff again. Good. Good luck.

You know, that's kind of her I mean, she's used to it now. We've been married 15 years and uh but like when I remember when I started Vexel cuz it's 10 years old now. So it was it was in the heat of the battle like I was gone every other weekend traveling had working on all these big deals and just decided to start a clothing brand. She's like, "What are you doing?

Like your plate's already overflowing. You like that? You know, you just like stuff falling off your plate." I'm like, "Yeah, it's fine."

But Um anyway it yeah so I've been doing that for 10 years but no it is demanding the last few years is demanding more of my time um to really take it to the next level to where I want to where I see it um you know I can't I can't just uh halfheart it you know I need to be more involved. Yeah. The clothing brand thing nowadays is interesting. Yeah.

No, it's because it, you know, it's like a lot of people are just like slapping something on a hat. Yeah. And they have a clothing brand. It's like, well, Oh, yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I've seen that, too. Like, right.

Uh, like I said, even before I you know, the reason I got into graphic design and all that, I've always I mean, I can already tell the way that your logo is brand uh embroidered onto the hat, like the like how much work goes into getting that done. And even sourcing somebody to make that and embroider that and stuff. Yeah. Uh is a lot of work.

Yeah. Yeah. It's And then we've got some patches that are really detailed, but um Yeah. No, but just like gluing on a thing, it's like, okay, but there's I've seen it over the years that uh even since I started Vexel really, I really started paying more attention to all these new brands just show up.

You know, next thing you know, I'm getting served an ad for uh you know, Joe's Cattle Company or whatever their brand is. And um like since I started Vexel 10 years ago, I don't I don't know what the number is, but there's been a ton of new brands trying to crack into what like what we do, what who he does into the western world. Um and there's been some that are have been successful, right? I mean, like Whiskey Ben, Red Dirt Hat, but then there's a ton more out there that are trying to do it.

The great thing about me, I had all the tools to start it. You know, I was a graphic designer. Most people that are out there starting a brand, they got to go hire a graphic designer. They have to maybe hire somebody to run their social media.

And I'm like, man, thank goodness I don't I can run on I can run on a lower budget because I don't have all this outside expense. You know, like I said that to this day, all the designs I still do and I enjoy it. Yeah, that's the fun part for me. Right.

It's coming up with something new that I haven't seen, right? But still falls in line with the culture. Like we've got some caps that are bullhauler, you know, it's a cattle trailer, old Peter build on it and those took off. I didn't know like sometimes it's my wife once again, you know, she sees stuff I designed, she'll like that's the one I don't is you're going to produce that?

Is that I don't know about that. It's like any creative endeavor, man. You just you never know. Same way with writing a song or No, exactly.

The internet's created. We're in a We're in a point in time where you can look very official and professional online. Mhm. Um, and with technology, you're able to create pretty meaningful brands, whether or not it's a clothing brand or even like musically, like you're able to pretty cheaply and efficiently get something that sounds pretty decent made.

Yeah. You're like whether it's a hat or it's a song. Yeah. And then you're able to put that out and then if you're able to market it properly, a lot of people can hear about it and it could potentially become pretty popular very quickly without having to put in any real groundwork or actually have anything of substance underneath it.

Yeah. And that's kind of where we're at right now in society where I think in the next 10 years we're going to really see the cream rise to the top cuz like in music, dude, it is like every freaking every person that can bang on a guitar is putting out music and putting it out there, which is cool cuz that's the same reason some horseshoe from Decatur, Texas gets to make me make music, right? Yeah. But it's a double-edged sword because 200,000 songs a day are put on Spotify.

So there's a lot of noise. Yeah, I read that stat. What was that stat the other day? Well, it used to be 60 during CO it was 60,000 a day and that number's gone up dramatically.

Yeah. But the stat I heard and I'm probably not kind of like your Ireland plug tobacco statement. It's not going to be completely accurate, but yeah, you have to do this in a Scottish accent. Yeah.

No, I'm not an accent guy. Um, out of the songs that let's say 200,000 that are getting put on Spotify today, how many of those 200,000 songs end up getting more than a thousand plays? Oh, it's like none. Yeah.

Like I'm like, gee whiz, that's crazy. Yeah, it is gnarly. anytime I start feeling bad for myself or something like that. Um you're it's just it's like anything in life, the whole jealousy uh thing.

It's just all about perspective cuz like if you think if the person you're looking up to going, "Ah, why do they have it?" It's like rarely do we ever look behind us and go, "Oh shoot." You know, you're always looking at your neighbor that has a bigger house saying, "Why do they have a bigger house?" You're not driving through the poor neighborhood going, "Damn, I'm pretty I'm pretty fortunate."

you know, pretty much and that's where I'm big on gratefulness and thankfulness because for me at least, I mean, I suggest it for anybody, but waking up every day and focusing starting your day focused on, okay, what are you thankful for? I mean, really, I think it's a decision you have like I make I tried to do it in the morning and it does reframe my day. Yeah. And if I don't like make it a point of just be thankful about some things like slow down.

Yeah. Look at the sunshine. Well, the train goes off the tracks in a hurry if you don't. If you don't if you don't do that, next thing you know, the train's off the tracks and you're pissed and then you're looking at that gun, why has this guy got it so easy?

You know, you're looking outward instead of inward all these great things you already have. Um, so yeah. So, like with the music thing with so many people putting up there's all sorts of musicians that are really great that their stuff doesn't see the light of day. And while I'm not maybe as successful as I want to be and I'm not, you know, in whatever that capacity that even means, uh, I'm more successful than most that do music, right?

It's like globally, like if you're where I'm at right now, I'm in the top 2% of music makers in the world. Granted, that top 2% like has Beyonce in it. So, you know, the gap between but the gap from the top 2% to like the bottom 98% is just like extraordinary. And I'm by no means like a household name.

So, it's like there's things to be thankful for, but yet there is yeah, there's a lot of noise too. So, in the same way with like creating a clothing brand or anything like there's just so and like IP and trademarks and stuff, uh it's almost impossible. You see people ripping your stuff off all the time and like they can just make a quick hat with using your name. Yeah, they do that to us in Mexico.

I haven't seen it as much lately, but there for a while I would see I saw a guy in person with a cap and um and he was a Mexican guy and I saw and I didn't go talk to him cuz I know it wasn't him. I don't know. He didn't knock it off, but I think he got it in Mexico and because I design everything. So, I know I saw the captain like I didn't do that color version.

And uh so yeah, and I think the I mean obviously you need to if it gets out of hand, you need to try to from a business owner perspective, you need to figure it out. I had a guy in uh South America, what was that country? um one of the southern down there by Col Colombia. It's like one of those little countries by Colombia.

Well, anyway, trying to trademark my logo. Whoa. And so I that kind of concerned me cuz he's right next to Brazil and Brazil is a big western, you know, I'm like, wait a second here. So I did get an attorney involved on that and um got that shut down.

But um it's almost impossible to really chase down though. Not all like the stuff in Mexico. I'm like there's nothing I can do, right? They're going to do what they're going to do.

And I just uh no different than I mean, like I say, you got to pay attention enough to where okay, I've got my eye on it. Make sure it doesn't get to a point where I need to step in. But for the most part, I'm just going to keep my head down and do me. And same with music, right?

You just got to put your head down and do you. Um anything in life really. You start looking to the sides too much and you're not focused on the task at hand. Yeah, dude.

That's why I'm not that big on goals. Like I'm big on daily goals and maybe like weekly goals, monthly goals, but just more short time frame. Yeah. Like I have a general sense of where I want to head, but I just I spent most of my 20s just with my head in the clouds.

You know, you got big dreams, big goals, but then it's like, well, what' you do today? Yeah. Did you just think about what you were going to do tomorrow? Cuz then you spend every day doing.

So, I had to like break it down into like what did you just do the last five minutes? Yeah. No. Yeah, that's understandable.

That's probably how I work, too. I don't I have general, right, general goals out there, but for the most part, I'm not I'm not um I don't focus on the prize, the ultimate. here's the ultimate prize, but I don't ever f I learned not to focus on that because if I'm too focused on that, I'm missing what's going right now, which I know it sounds cliche, but the process, I've learned that um I describe it as a trench. You're in a trench digging a trench toward the prize, right?

Well, if you're constantly digging and just looking at that prize, what you don't realize is in the process, you're digging up gold nuggets. And if you don't have your head down, focus on the process, you're going to miss out on some great things. Yeah. And some of that I mean that kind of ties it up in a bow at the beginning of our conversation too about like what the meaning of life is and happiness and joyfulness and contentment like developing solid relationships and yeah, being able to enjoy the process.

Yeah. If you are just looking up the whole time, it's like dude, your buddy over here like was sad you could have been there for him. like the how you do things and why you do it to me feels more important than really even what you do. There's some people that have pretty profound lives that they didn't like they didn't make all the money in the world and they maybe didn't do anything that special as a profession but they had a shitload of people at their funeral that they impacted you know and that to me is like that gives me goosebumps thinking about it you know.

Yeah. No. Yeah. It's about, like I said once again, it's about the relationships and um the goal.

A lot of people, I think, yeah, get too focused on the prize. What they don't realize is when you Okay. When you get that prize, if you get that prize, then what are you going to do? Yeah.

Just find another prize. I mean, I don't It's That's not what life's about. Yeah. You want to get that.

And I'm I want the prize, but I know that's just part of it. it. To me, I think the daily grind and the processes are just as valuable as the prize. It's just part of it, right?

The prizes, you get the prize, then it's let's start some processes on another prize, right? This and it's all one. I see it as all one instead of that's the gold medal and this is the shitty part. I don't look at it that way, right?

And too many people do. Um, but like the talking about goals when I, you know, I say I have general goals. Um, you know, I'm on a songwriting journey now that I started. Um, I mean, years ago I wrote half songs.

That's what the deal was. It was like a It was just a creative outlet away from emails, phone calls. I'd pick up the guitar, write a chorus and a verse, set it down, never sing that ever again in my life. It was just a, you know, um, for my own sanity really.

And but I finally decided um, last year my goal was, okay, I need to start finishing some more songs. I don't care if the second verse is crappy. Just finish it. Just to try to train myself to finish a song, right?

Don't you? Because I got a little bit more time on my hands now. Now that I've scaled back from the agency and that's what I've put it into. So, I finished more songs, not all of them last year.

Well, this year the goal was, okay, you're going to write regardless. How about you figure out a way to throw some stuff against a wall and see if it sticks because you're going to write regardless, so might as well throw some against the wall. So, I'm like, okay, let's use your connections because that's what I've been about with my agency. I've got connections and I used my connections.

Aaron knew Aaron Watson's old manager had bre he introduced me to Mitch Ballard who's BMI. Do you know Mitch? Mhm. He's the head of BMI at in Austin.

Oh gosh. So I went and had breakfast with him and um was telling him my story about how I saw songwriting, you know, on the big sale like Nashville. I'm like I feel like it's just bubble because I look at all the songs that are in the top 40 and I'm starting to see a pattern. There's these songwriting pods.

I'm like, so I feel like I could write the best song ever written in the world, but which is still great, but if I want to do something with it, I got to get in that bubble. Yeah. And I'm So I'm just kind of picking his brain. He'd already heard my story.

He goes, "Dude, you're one phone call away from the bubble. You're one step away from the bubble with your connections." Yeah. You're probably close you're closer to it than I am.

Yeah. And I didn't really think it that way. He goes, "There's people in Nashville trying to do the deal day in and day out. You're 10 steps ahead of them."

Yeah. Yeah. You have to write a good song. That's just known, right?

But as far as getting in the bubble, he goes, "Dude, you just write a pretty good song, you probably get in that bubble." I'm like, "Oh." So that was, you know, so that back to my goals. The reason I was saying this is my goals this year was to just try to make some moves with that.

Not necessarily. Yeah, I'd love to have a cut, but really just make moves. That's the process, right? Let's make some moves and u you know, see where we see where this journey takes us.

That's amazing. I love I love the idea of people uh at different points in their life just going for some things that just putting themselves out there. Well, this one is it's hard to do, man. Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't I don't downplay that. I mean, it's crazy, too. I mean, I It's more just emotionally like Yeah.

That's the fear of failure. Get hearing nose and put Yeah. Just put Well, I've used to And that's what I think, you know, really and it um now may sound kind of corny, but I feel like my whole life, you know, I'm coming to it's got me to this point, right? The agency trying to sell sponsorships, being an Somebody asked me, "What do you do for a living?"

I'm an agent for professional bull riders. Oh, man. That's a sweet gig. You know, that's a cool job.

Well, I'm like, "Well, you want to come hang out with me for a day?" It sounds like I mean, I hear no so many nos in a day. I mean, it's I'm just callous to no. I mean, whatever.

I'm go find a yes. You know, I'll go to the next one. It doesn't I don't There's no emotion. I've learned that, you know, no is just a get you to the yes faster, right?

Just give me a bunch of nos. I know there's a yes up here, right? So, I think all that I've done starting a clothing brand that wasn't easy has led me to probably my biggest challenge I've ever challenged myself with ever in my life. And that's having the balls to think I could write something that a big artist would cut it.

I don't know if it's going to happen, but like I tell everybody, I'm okay with failure. I do that daily. I'm not okay with not trying because I'll never know, right? You know, I joke around with my wife because she thinks I'm just lost my mind.

But I said, "Well, you know, when we're old rocking on the front porch and, you know, drinking our coffee and I get that phone call, I got a cut." Yeah, we'll celebrate. It's so cool, man. But yeah, but once again, I've learned to enjoy the journey.

So, I'm on a journey. Let's just go. Let's see where it takes. This is something new, something challenging.

Um, you know, and I look up to you guys like you are doing the deal, right? I'm not a performing artist, but you're a writer, right? You've got a creative mind. You're I listened the other day.

I hadn't heard it that Anvil song he wrote. Uh, which I'll tell you this, I'm an old horseshoeer myself. Really? Yeah, I'm so sorry.

No, well, I did it. My dad was a farmer, right? But he was a horseshoe, too, on, you know, just side money. And uh he uh you know, I was all focused.

I'm a bull rider. He convinced me. He goes, "Dude, you need to go get some sort of skill that can make some money cuz this, you know, he was trying to be nice about it, right? You need to figure out dreams here that you're going to need money at some point.

I guarantee it." So when I was 18, I went actually not far from here, Ardmore. You did? Yeah.

For two months, whatever that school is. Went and got that. And that was great. My Yeah.

I'm glad I took my dad's advice and went and did it because through my years rodeoing and, you know, going when I was college rodeoing in Big Spring. Yeah. It was cash money here and there, you know, just Hell yeah. Oh, you need a shoe tacked on?

Well, heck, I can do it. I got my stuff. Let's do it. So, it's it was a great skill to have over the years.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I respect you for, you know, doing the deal day in and day out. I got scars to prove.

I got this scar right there from horse jerking bags, back foot, nails still out about cutting my rib about died. Yep. It's a rough gig. I've had some pretty bad wrecks.

Yeah. Fortunately, I don't I still have like a handful of customers that I shoot for. Usually on Mondays I go shoe. And it's like a good time to just, you know, you get out and I don't know, there's something about just living a real life.

It keeps you grounded. And uh yeah, some old nasty broodmmer doesn't care that you just played in front of a thousand people on Saturday night. No, don't care. Just stops.

Did you write you write any songs in your head when you're That's usually where I write. That's good. That's usually where I write. Yeah.

It's like it's often times like pretty melody driven and then when I come home uh you know I can I can usually put it to music in some way. Sometimes it's because I play my guitar a lot too. So sometimes songs come about because I just found something cool like a riff or something like that. I have a lot of songs like that but then often times other ones just come from a melody and a bunch of them have just been what I'm shoeing.

There's something about doing like monotonous manual labor. Well, shoeing might not seem monotonous, but like if you've done it for a long time, it can be it's just second nature, you know? Yeah. And so, you just get to doing your thing and you're like I've always just kind of been by myself when I do it, too.

So, uh you're just alone with your own thoughts. Yeah. I love hearing that. I love hearing the backstory on songwriting.

I just listen watched the video of Dean Dylan telling the story when they wrote Oceanfront Property. Uh, and that was just a great I mean I love those back stories cuz now that I'm doing it, right? Um, you know, it's cool to hear somebody else where'd that come from? You know, cuz I don't I can't explain where the stuff comes from me.

It's a lot of I mean, like I wrote a song up Monday called Cowboy Town and um uh I don't even know who would cut it, you know? Probably need to be pretty cowboy to cut it, but um not nowadays. Everybody Well, I would want it to be. I think it's cowboy enough to where that I mean, not that it's that a deep song or anything.

It's pretty shallow, but there's u I mean a line in there says a cow dog on the back of a flatbed diesel truck. I mean, yeah. Uh it's cattle at the sale barn praying for the right price. So, I mean, I can't see some guy up there trying to pretend to be a cowboy, but maybe.

I mean, well, it's uh it's happening a lot nowadays. And I'm not I'm not even my line when everybody some somebody's like you real cowboy. I'm like well less than most but more than some. Yeah.

And that would be my answer too because you know I think everybody has their different perspectives on what a cowboy is. Um for me I mean people could say well you're a bull you're road bulls for a living. Yeah you're a cowboy. I'm like, well, no.

The real cowboy, in my opinion, is that guy who's out there on the ranch, you know, working, checking cows every day, fixing fence, you know, tacking shoes on a horse. The guy that's he's doing the deal every day. I mean, in my mind, that's a real cowboy, right? Yeah.

And then there's horsemen, there's rodeo cowboys, there's freaking there's all over the place. But there's a country of music cowboys. those ones I sometimes have a more I say I say a difficult time with uh there's like a weirdness sometimes where I think some of them know that they might not be all that authentic which is okay uh and then so some of the guys that maybe are a little bit more authentic they get sort of intimidated by them and uh and so like I get a weirdness sometimes from some guys where I'm like hey dude I don't I don't care. Do your do the cowboy head thing.

I don't I'm not like the savior of dude. Even watching some of this stuff where uh like I saw the video of Zack Top riding that, you know, they lope a horse around after the Houston rodeo. You thought he was going to fall off. Yeah.

And so like I just I just see people like roasting him and then some people defending him and it's like even talking about it with my wife and she runs barrels. She trains fraternity horses. She's like super handy. And uh and we were just giggling cuz it's like it's like h have you seen half of the rough stock guys ride like in the grand entry at like most of them don't even ride that well.

Uh not to mention like I there was I can't even remember who it was. There was some barrel racer that she got took for a lap by one of those flag horses at some rodeo. She's a barrel racer just taken for a lap. Uh, and she's a profess like she's really handy.

It's like, well, this guy Yeah. I mean, you can clearly tell he's been on the back of a horse before. Uh, but is he like a horse trainer? No.

Does he like ride professionally? No. He spent his life playing music. Yeah.

Like that's what he got really good at. And then there's lights. He just got off stage and then he's got to go. He's probably hadn't been on that thing.

He just climbing on this. He's supposed to go lope around this whole Come on. Yeah. When the horse went the I was there that night.

Yeah. And I So I saw it live and I saw that horse and he went to that corner and that horse just turned around and came back. I'm like, I don't blame you. Just get the heck out.

Get the heck out of there and get off of him, dude. Wade Sundell, I think it was it, wasn't it? At the NF back in there far. Yeah.

Was it his back or his collarbone? I think he's right. It was his back. I think it was.

Wasn't that at the NFR at the Grand Entry? Exactly. Uh cuz he had Was he carrying a flag? I don't know if he was, but that he got bucked off.

That gets western anyway. You better you need to be kind of cowboy. I find it ironic that a lot of the people that just know nothing Well, it's a keyboard, you know. Yeah.

And they know the least and then they're the ones that have the biggest opinions. No, I didn't judge him on that. I could clearly tell, but I'm But like does he ride, dude? Watch most guys that like go day, you know, day work or just cowboys like watch him go trot a horse.

It's like it don't look particularly great. No. Exactly. I mean, come on.

No, I had respect for him just to He could have said no. He said just put me in the back of a truck. No doubt. And but he was brave enough to do that.

Yeah, dude. I would be nervous. It's just like I had even been on it. You're in front of 70,000 people.

Come on, dude. Lights going everywhere. But the most opinionated people are often the ones that don't even come from the culture. Oh, yeah.

For sure. I find to be ironic. Yeah. Know the cowboy world is interesting because it's uh I mean, we're in the I think we're coming back down off of it, right?

the Yellowstone phase built this built the culture up and I had a guy um he's a marketing guy and he's not a cowboy. Um this is about a couple years ago he we were talking about Yellowstone the Yellowstone. Oh man, Yellowstone's brought the cowboy world to life, huh? I'm like yeah I said this happens every so many years.

Yeah. Um, I mean, you look back in the 80s, Urban Cowboy, it may it did the same thing, right? I said, cowboy world's always here. It's just Hollywood grabs a hold of it ever so often and then it feels like it's getting popular.

The real cowboy world steady and just stays different than some other Yeah, it stays because it's not just a fad. Like, it's so deeply rooted in history and culture. Um, and it's Yeah. so deeply rooted into mo like a lot of people's daily existence that once the once the popular culture sinks their teeth into it.

It's got such depth that it usually lasts for a good amount of time then it'll go away but then it like always comes back and there's like a rom but it's so deeply rooted in something real. Yeah. So it's powerful. Yeah.

And you see that like, you know, because I've been, you know, PBR goes New York City, Madison Square Garden, and um, you know, you get stopped quite a bit there with your hat because people just don't they don't see that, right? They only see that on their TV screen. Um, so I think people that, you know, grew up in the city, didn't grow up in a rural lifestyle or there's this mystery about the cowboy world that they don't understand it, but, you know, they're just drawn to it. They want to know because it's so different than their day-to-day life.

Um, I mean the New York City PBR, which a lot of people come from, you know, around. It's not necessarily everybody in Manhattan come to that event. A lot of upstate New York, Pennsylvania, but New Jersey, but um, that crowd is wild. I mean, they'll boo the judges.

I mean, it's Yeah. I love the event because they are But they don't care. They don't know the rules really. Yeah.

you know, they just know some crazy cowboys getting on the back of this bull and he's got it riding, right? So, they don't care about, you know, I mean, they do care about the score because if the score is low, they boo, which you don't get that anywhere else. And I like love going to that event because it's just so like, oh man, this is great. Yeah, these people don't care.

I am I am happier that it is in popular culture because I have to get my way out of less fights. I've found. Oh man. Probably like five, six years ago or before co before Yellowstone basically.

There you go. It was like, dude, if I was just someplace where I was out of place, somebody was going to test the cowboy. Nice hat. Yeah.

You real cowboy? Like that whole It's just like, dude, stop. Now, ironically, all those people, it's the same person, you know? Now they're all wearing a cowboy hat.

Oh, yeah. And I'm like, hey, dude, your hat's on backwards. What's that? that statement you keep saying you're a real cowboy.

I mean, that comes from urban cowboy. Yeah, exactly. I know. It goes all the way back and they don't even know that it's a great movie.

Yeah. Well, dude, I had a freaking great time. I'm glad we linked up finally. I'd heard a bunch of really good things from a lot of people.

So, Oh, I appreciate it. I just Yeah, that's good to hear. It keep me going. Yeah.

Keep putting one foot in front of the other. So, I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, dude. Right on.

Well, y'all go buy a hat, buy a shirt. Vexel, be bold. be western. Adios.

Thanks, dude. Thank you. [Music] Sing me. [Music]