Chase Colston

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Purple in the canyon. [singing and music] That's where I tridor >> is 100% independent. Of course, it's me and it's my best friend since we were four years old.

Um, so I'm 39, almost 40, and he just turned 40. So, we've known each other for 35 years. So, like, you know, basically a brother my whole life.

And it's like we look at it and >> this just no longer makes sense, you know? >> Um and my business partner, his name is Cody Johnson, but it's not that Cody Johnson. It's amazing how many managers and agents are like, "Your business partner's Cody Johnson." Yeah, not that one.

[snorts] >> I feel like there's a bunch of uh Cody Johnson's just in general in the music. >> Pretty common. Pretty common, >> but like he has a real job.

Like he his day is not music. Like he does stuff that makes money. Um, but he looks at he's like, "Chase, if I'm going to commit a million dollars to something at my, you know, day job, I know how much money I'm going to make or at least I have a pretty good idea." These days with a festival, it's like, "Okay, we're going to spend Brian, for example, back in March, we're going to spend $1.1 million on this event." Um, you know, a number I would have never comprehended being involved with in my life.

And it's like we have no idea how much money we're going to make or lose because we don't have any idea how many tickets we're going to sell. We don't know how much, you know, beer we're going to sell. We don't know how much sponsorships we're going to sell.

>> Yeah. You could potentially just end up throwing like a super epic party that cost you a lot. >> We've thrown our fair share of free parties, man.

Like we've thrown some that have worked out well and we've thrown some that were um beyond free. >> Yeah. And that's the point to where, you know, after Brian, he was just like, man, we we can't do this anymore.

Like, it's just, and that's not to say, you know, never say never. Um, I actually have a meeting, you know, with Brian in a few weeks with the hopes that we can, uh, get something worked out and we put ourselves in a situation that, um, you know, takes the risk out of it, at least takes the majority of it out. >> Yeah.

I mean, because you're still That's what I'm saying. It's just so weird that it's considered >> I don't even know if you want to call it like a failure, but you're still sell you're still creating a lot of >> like revenue for the city. You're bringing a lot of people in.

>> So, it's not as simple as just like >> Yeah. >> Is is there a part of that too that you can say like, "Okay, we're shutting down. We're not doing it." And then the city or the county or something's like, "Wait, hold on.

Maybe don't maybe don't." >> Yeah. Um I mean, we've had I mean, as you can probably tell so far, I'm a pretty candid person. Yeah.

Um, I got nothing to hide and yeah, I mean, we've had the conversation with with both cities. Um, is that, you know, this is just not economically feasible for us anymore. Um, and you know, we did in Brian College Station, we did our first three festivals down there on campus at Texas A&M.

Great time, great events, hot as hell every year. Um, but didn't have anything to show for it profitabilitywise. Um, our best year down there was what?

Our first year we profited $17,000 by the end of it. >> It's tough to pay everybody with that. >> Yeah.

Yeah. And even when there's only two of us, it's tough to pay $17,000 across two dudes. >> Yeah.

>> Uh, who have another festival five months after that. But, >> uh, so we moved it to Brian. You know, Brian offered some great incentives to get us over there.

And we had a, you know, a really great location. And uh we moved it from the middle of May to the end of March, so cooler weather. We were doing it during school, whereas before we were the week after graduation uh at Texas A&M.

And uh we sold three more tickets this year than we did last year. >> Three. And it just makes no sense.

And I thought the lineup was killer. Like I loved it. Um, you know, I figured like, oh, we're bring a flat land to College Station with $40 student tickets.

And we sold,00 student tickets. And it's like, >> how big is the university? >> 77,000 students.

>> Yeah. >> It's like even if you got >> Yeah. I don't know, man.

It just doesn't make sense. >> It's It's just a weird market. It's It's so oversaturated.

And, you know, Brian College Station was kind of the a market that wasn't getting quite as flooded as DFW or Austin or whatever. Um, but you know, you've already got Chili Fest, uh, which was two weeks after us, and then, uh, Live at the Station, you know, has been, uh, been down there a few years, and they're still going. Um, you know, two years ago, um, you know, we had our festival all planned and booked and, uh, you know, our second act on stage was the Red Clay Strays and then George Strait books a show at Kyle Field a [snorts] month later, you know.

So, uh, yeah, it's just tough. Like, it's, uh, you know, if you're not just if you don't have the deepest of pockets or the, you know, the ability to risk that kind of money, then, um, you know, it's it's it's almost [ __ ] impossible these days. >> Well, it seems like even the biggest acts in the world are it's like everybody's struggling to sell tickets.

Like you see the blue blue dot thing. I would see that popping up, articles about it. >> Yeah.

I would say like if you're not if it's not like a prestigious residency or you know just one of the super hot tours that's going on or just something that's like really niche it's not going to it hasn't it struggled it hasn't been as successful. So you're basically pointing at, you know, you've got, you know, your [ __ ] at the sphere or, you know, some of these big tours. You know, you see Hello Langley, you know, blowing out all her dates, which is awesome.

Um, and a bunch of these other ones. And then, you know, you have your, you know, your festivals that are going to sell out or do great no matter what. You know, your stage coaches, your two steps, your, you know, whatever.

Um, but there aren't that many independents in the midst of all that. And, uh, you know, got kind of caught up in it. So whereas you know 7 8 nine years ago it used to just be go on sale we're sold out cool we know how much money we're going to make and we're done now it's just like neverending struggle and you know that leads into so many other problems social media advertising don't get me started on that >> in what way what frustrates you about that >> oh you know it's all built on you know algorithms now and uh the only way you can have any sort of you know engagement are following is to pay for it or just, you know, having something go, you know, super viral.

Uh, you know, our very first festival, Salina, in 2021, uh, we spent $1,500 on Facebook ads and sold 7,500 tickets. Uh, we average over the last three or four shows, we've averaged spending about $50,000 on Facebook, Instagram ads, Tik Tok, [ __ ] like that. Uh >> it's just uh >> see it's like >> competing for you know eyeballs in [clears throat] an algorithm and you know your organic posts are I mean even huge accounts you know I talked to Matt Pitman who owns Meat Church um you know got almost a million followers on Instagram like you know he's told yeah his engagement's gone way down just organically u >> that's just how the the system works and it's almost like if you're not paying for it you're less relevant are Mo other than like two um you know videos that went sort of viral on our Instagram.

One was about ragweed, one was about ramen keen. Not really directly related to any festival that we were doing. Um our most engaged post ever was our post about not doing our sal [snorts] festival this year.

And it took everything that I had to like not put in the post like I have, you know, like this is going to be our, you know, our most popular engage with post ever. and it's about us not existing this year. So, it just makes no sense.

I mean, more, you know, more engagements and shares or whatever than any lineup drop we've ever had or any ticket drop or what, you know, going on sale. Way more than any of that, >> dude. That's just like people coming out and saying like, "I'm not touring anymore.

I'm going to rehab." It's like that's the biggest >> engaged thing that people have. >> Catch me at my worst. >> Isn't that crazy?

>> Yeah. It's and I knew it was going to be like that whenever we whenever I posted it, you know, put like the photo of the words up and just copied and pasted those same words and put them in the caption and, you know, I mean, my phone was just, you know, fireworks after that. Uh, so I mean, the irony is just >> that's got to be exhausting, too.

Like, uh, >> it'd be like getting a divorce and then everybody calls you and says, "Well, why what do you need help with? What do you >> Yeah. And I've had two divorces, so I know uh I know exactly how how that goes, >> man.

So, you've been through some stuff. >> Hey, man. You know, I'm 39 years old.

I've lived a couple of lifetimes. My friend Rashad's back there probably just laughing his ass off [laughter] like >> What you think about that, Rashad? >> He's not lying.

[laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You go back the last 25 years, man, that's a that's a book. But, >> uh >> yeah, it's it's crazy. It's just Yeah.

the times where you need it the most, it it just doesn't work and you know, you finally say, "All right, well, I'm tapping out or at least for this year." Um, you know, I feel like if the time comes or we do Brian next year or we bring, you know, we're able to do a show in 2027, I like to think that that initial announcement might be somewhat engaged with hopefully. >> Yeah. Um but like ultimately like you're just you know social media you're just like that dead horse just can't be beaten anymore you know and it's the only it's the only avenue in which you can get any sort of engagement or measurement or really you know track what your your money is doing you know you can't throw money at print media anymore it's a waste radio is different you know there's no way of tracking it you know worked in radio for 9 10 years it's just uh >> So, so did you start like as a like a buyer type or like a booking agent or like what was even your >> How far back are we going >> like I don't know like did you what what did you did you go to college?

>> I did. Yeah, I was a sports writer in a previous life. >> Okay.

>> So, journalism major. I've wor I wor started working in newspapers when I was 14. Started throwing newspapers when I was 10.

Uh >> you really like newspapers? You know, that was back. Kids these days don't have any idea what the [ __ ] they are.

But uh yeah, when I was 14, I went to the sports editor or the no, the editor of the weekly paper in my hometown, Buller, Texas, and said, "I want to cover the New York Yankees for the New York Times. Can I can I write sports for your paper?" >> Wow. >> And she said, "You can be the sports editor of the newspaper." I was 14.

Did that all through high school. Um, I started working at the Daily Paper in Tyler, Texas, uh, when I was 17. Worked in papers for till I was about 25.

Um, and then something called the internet kind of killed uh, print journalism. Um, so like I had gone to college, did that thing, I moved to Oklahoma City a week after graduated college, worked at the Oklahoma newspaper for about a year and a half. um hated Oklahoma, came back home in the midst of the housing crash and the recession and all that and worked at newspapers um same newspaper in Tyler for a few more years and uh the road that road was ending.

So I got a job at Towns Square Media uh which is the third largest radio company in America um based in Tyler for radio stations um familiar with Buddy Logan at Radio Texas Live, >> syndicated [clears throat] Texas country guy. Really, really great. He's actually out of the business now, too.

Um, but I worked there for nine years, and I was hired to do digital content, uh, social media for four radio stations. Um, and, uh, I kind of had this idea not long after I started. I was a big barbecue fan.

My general manager was a big barbecue fan. We ate at Stanley's Famous Pit Barbecue and Tyler all the time. Um, and I had been going to Texas Monthly's barbecue festival in Austin a few years and I went to him one day and just kind of got I got actually I got the idea um watching Uncle Lucius at Stanley's on a Saturday one time and I was like let's take this barbecue festival concept and like we have a country radio station and a great Texas country radio show and personality and buddy I said so let's just stick a Texas country show on the end of went to my general manager, threw the idea at him.

I had only been working there like six months, eight months, and he's like, "Dude, that's a great [ __ ] idea." So, we called the suits up in New York, [snorts] throw this idea at him. They're like, "No." Like, "Okay, >> why?" >> You know, they just didn't want to didn't want to risk it. Didn't want to um you know, put that much money up, I guess.

um you know they had already you know kind of you know committed some other projects that I had started in Tyler at the radio station which was cool but um what they didn't really realize is that I'm pretty persistent probably to the point of annoyance sometimes. Uh, so I kept asking and asked again and again and uh some of the executives came to Tyler one time on a visit and we're at dinner one night at this restaurant in Tyler and uh I'm just like waiting for my turn to talk you know and I'm 25 years old at this point and uh 26 I don't know um and you know one of them asked me like so Chase what's on your mind and I kind of smiled and they're like we already know and the answer is still no I said we are this is a great opportunity Uh, I finally got one of them to say like, "All right, just put a P&L together. Let me see it and we'll go from there." So, I put a P&L together for the Red Dirt Barbecue Music Festival in Tyler.

So, like middle of summer 2013, uh, they finally said yes. Um, had no idea what the what the [ __ ] I was doing. We had a live events manager in the market.

So live events were an important part of Town Square's, you know, company then. Um, so we're like, great, we're going to do this event. How do we do it?

I have no idea. I do content for a living. I was like, I know how to promote it on social media and write about it and all this other stuff.

And uh >> Well, dang, that was pretty early on the social media thing. >> Yeah. Yeah.

2013. And >> way early. >> Yeah.

So we were, you know, that was back when you you would post something on your page and everybody would see it. It was amazing. Uh yeah, truly incredible.

You actually like saw content from pages that you chose to follow. >> Dude, isn't that the truth? >> It's like the whole thing now is just not like who what's the I don't >> It's like someone you don't follow add.

Someone you don't follow add, you know, whatever. And >> um so we start like throwing around like headliner ideas and I could go to like a whole other story as like you know a few years before this I did not like country music. This was kind of a recent phenomenon for me.

Um, >> what were you like? >> Rock and roll, baby. I got Pearl Jam on both arms.

>> Oh, you're a grungger. >> Oh, yeah, man. I uh >> Oh, okay.

>> My big brother was seven years older than me. I was born ' 86. He was born in 79.

So, like I came up, you know, with my dad, you know, my dad and my brother are big country fans. My dad and my mom were, you know, of course, like big classic country fans, Wayan Willie, you know, that whole group. But I was like rock and roll, you know.

My brother showed me Pearl Jam and Nirvana and Sound Garden. >> Yeah, buddy. >> Yeah.

You know, I ride with my dad. It would be a lot of Zeppelin, you know, The Who. Um, stuff like that.

>> did you get the Allison Chains thing? Did you like that or Nah? >> Oh, Dasher and the Moon Rocks guy.

>> No, no, no, no, no. Like Allison Chains. Like, do you like Alison Chain?

Yeah. Um, yeah. One of my funnest like live concert experiences was seeing Aaron Lewis cover Rooster.

>> Whoa. >> Yeah, it was really really cool. >> Oh, I bet they had to do that quite a bit lower.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. >> When was that when you saw him do that?

>> Yeah, man. That was at a basically a pastor party in East Texas in like 200 I was with the radio station like 2012 2013. Um Aaron Lewis headlined direct support was Jason Bowling and the Stragglers and around 3:30 4:00 was a guy named Cody Johnson.

Yeah. Um but yeah, hated country music. Didn't like it.

>> Well, the probably the country music that was current for that time. >> I didn't like any of it. Well, no, but you just said you liked old school.

>> No, my dad liked it. My brother liked it. I kind of and grew up with it.

You know, you're from these Texas royal family likes country music. I didn't like any of it. Or I thought I didn't, I should say.

Exactly. And uh >> I was the same way. You get you grow up around it.

>> I mean, I grew up being a Rebel. Like I grew up a Yankees fan in Texas Rangers country, you know, and uh >> Hey, this is why we get along. >> Yeah.

See, exactly. Now I can just say my wife's from New York. Not that I've been a Yankees fan since I was six.

>> And then we get older and then we get humbled enough and then we realize we're just morons. That's why we >> I'm still a Yankees fan, but I don't like Yankees fans if that makes any sense. >> Well, I mean I'm an idiot.

[laughter] >> Yeah. So, um yeah, didn't like it. Like I remember like being in high school um and my brother would like be like, "Man, you need to listen to some of these guys." And um where Red Dirt started in downtown Tyler, like around the square, and that's actually where I live to this day.

Um >> you mean like the festival? >> Yeah, like Red Dirt took place in downtown Tyler, but I live in downtown Tyler and I have from a lot of the last Say that'd be like a uh red dirt country started in downtown Tyler. >> It did >> like country music.

Red dirt like the genre did the genre. [laughter] >> Say that one. That clip will >> has its moments but it's not that cool.

>> Say it. Look dead into the camera and say red dirt country music started in downtown Tyler, Texas. >> I feel like you're going to blackmail me with [laughter] that.

>> I get enough as it is. Uh my brother would come home and be like, "Man, you need to listen to some of these guys. I'm watching um there's a bar restaurant downtown called Ricks on the Square and uh Rick, the guy who owned it, actually just sold it.

But then he would have Texas Country Thursdays. So he'd pay these guys, you know, probably like $500 in a bar tab, you know, Randy Rogers and Stony Laroo and Wade Bowen. And my brother would come home and be like, "You got to listen to these guys." I was like, "No, I don't like it." Um you know, he loved like Max Stalling and and Jason Bolan was his favorite.

And I was like, "Man, I just I don't dig it." And then um started falling in love with barbecue as years went on and got a little older and uh I saw Uncle Lucius as Stanley's like I mentioned earlier [clears throat] and I really dug their sound. They weren't like country but you know they were funky and kind of had a little you know a little country vibe to them but you know wrote really cool songs. fell in love with the song Liquor Store and when I started the radio station um and you know buddy Logan was had the Texas Country Show um end up being syndicated nationally and stuff and you know we would talk about it and I was like man I said I don't really get down with a lot of it but I said I love Uncle Lucius.

He goes, "Oh, well, if you love Uncle Lucious, you know, there's some other ones." And kind of going from there. And that's kind of how I started liking country music. And, you know, >> fast forward to that 2013 when I got, you know, the go-ahad to do the festival.

And, you know, telling my brother this and he's like, >> "What? Where's all this coming from? You hated this music." And I was like, "Man, kind of coming around on it, you know, by this point." And Tyler, I had seen Turnpike and Cody Johnson and, you know, Love JB and the Moonshine Band.

there's some Tyler boys. >> Yeah. >> You know, wish they'd come back.

JB, please. Uh, >> you know, just going through all that and he's like, "Well, who are you going to get to headline the festival?" >> And that was at the time was kind of the wakeup call about like how much it cost, you know, cuz like we made a budget. Um, and then we were like, well, let's just let's let's see how much Randy Rogers band is.

And Randy Rogers band was all of the budget that we >> hot, dude. Yeah. They were all the budget and we're like, oh [ __ ] what do we do?

And it was like, okay, well, uh, I'm like, well, >> this is our festival. This is Randy Rogers. >> Luckily, like my general manager at the time was a lot like me, you know, very much ask for forgiveness, not permission kind of guys.

And he's like, we'll make up for it. So, we booked Randy Rogers band. And there was a local band I really like called the Bigs from Palestine, Texas.

And I was like, man, like, will you guys just play? They're like, sure, we'll play play for free. Um, second band was Green River Ordinance.

Uh, I don't know if you remember those Fort Worth guys. Great. >> They were amazing.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Super super talented.

>> That's another That's just another example of like it's just there's a lot of people that same with like a festival or doing great things that are awesome. >> Yeah. >> And then they just don't work.

It's like I just don't get it. Well, I was like, you know, Uncle Lucius is one of my all-time favorite bands, and it never like hit for them until they broke up, you know, when Keep the Wolves away went viral on TikTok. Never mind, these guys were putting out some of the best records in Texas, you know, for years before that.

But um so you get that and uh who do we put in direct support in front of Randy? Like, well, we're in East Texas, so let's go Whiskey Myers. So, very first year, we had Randy Rogers band and Whiskey Myers, you know, Green River, and then the Big Beast.

four bands. Uh I, you know, was really big into barbecue and I was real good friends or still am good friends with the owner at Stanley's and Tyler and I ran the idea by him. He's like, "Yeah, man." Like, "That sounds great.

Let's do it." I said, "Cool. I need some phone numbers so I can start calling all these other barbecue restaurants." Uh got 15 to commit that first year. Um 14 showed up, so that was a win.

Uh go out there. I didn't sleep for 42 hours, you know, had no idea what we were doing. setting this [ __ ] up and you know, but it sold out.

You know, our first year we're like, we'll sell 4,000 tickets and you know, we'll we'll go there and you know, it cost $169,000 to produce that festival that year. And that's with talent, fencing, everything. Probably a tit number of bathrooms we needed.

>> That barely covers production now. >> Yeah, exactly. you know, >> uh that that barely covers, you know, some artists, you know, for sure.

>> And uh it was, you know, we got done and I was like, "Holy [ __ ] I think we I think we've got something here." You know, we uh we made a profit. You know, our goal was to break even and keep doing it. And you know, at that point, you know, Tyler's not exactly a beacon for live events.

Uh still isn't, but Red Dirt still happens. But uh it was like, "Okay, we've got something cool." And Red Dirt kind of became part of part of Tyler from then on out, you know, and sold out. Uh I [snorts] sold out six more after that.

The last three we sold out in less than three hours. VIP tickets, we sold 500 every year. I think the last couple years they lasted 20 30 seconds.

Um, yeah. I mean, like I said, we'd announce the lineup, we'd go on sale about a week later on a Friday, go on sale at 10 a.m., we'd be sold out by 1, be at the bar by 10:05. >> Why?

Why? Why' you get out of that deal? >> Co.

Yeah. >> Yeah. CO happened.

I had booked the 2020 festival. Uh, yeah. Parker Mcllum, Josh Abbott, Jason Bolan, Charlie Crockett was playing second.

My cousin Chris was opening. >> Good. Great.

I had like gotten to FaceTime my cousin, you know, dream of his to uh play red dirt. Like he met his wife at the second red dirt um in 2015. [snorts] Uh facetimed him, you know, and said, "Hey, um cuz I'd actually booked him with Andrew McWills with Evergreen Artist Group now.

He used to be at Red 11. Uh so we kind of worked all that out and um you know, co came along. I was it was a Sunday.

Uh, I was at uh, a bar restaurant in Lindell, Texas, watching Josh Weathers, uh, one of the best to ever do it and get a text from an agent at WME and said, "Hey, um, CDC just [ __ ] everything. The >> world is shutting down." >> Yeah, we've got a [sighs and gasps] we've got to figure this out if you've got time. So, I spent the rest of the afternoon on the patio at this place in Lindell trying to get dates together.

Um, and we pushed it to a Sunday in October. And you know, our festival was the first weekend of May. Um, >> okay.

>> Like, we'll do it in October hopefully. Uh, two weeks later, boss calls me and she says, "Hey, um, you know, nobody's doing anything live events, especially not, so we're going to furlow you, um, until you can come back to work." And at the time, they were doing that extra $600 a week or whatever on regular unemployment. So, like, it wasn't bad.

It was fine. Like, I wasn't going to starve. So I was like, "Okay, well, got a little bit of vacation, I guess." And never went back to work.

Like August, September came around and we knew it was going to postpone again. So they weren't bringing me back to work and then uh so pushed it to the next year, you know, got some refunds on tickets, put tickets on sale again in February, uh for May 2021. Didn't sold those out.

You know, it was only a few hundred. Everybody kept their tickets. Um, and about a month goes by and I finally reached out to my boss and said, "Hey, I'm broke." >> Yeah.

>> And uh I was like, [clears throat] I I have to I have to come back to work. I was like, you know, that extra unemployment ended months ago. You know, I'm paying rent on my credit card.

Um I like I gota >> Damn, dude. >> Yeah. I was like, I got to come back to work.

>> So, but you would have been in a position where you didn't have access to like a lot of the loans and stuff. >> No. I worked for a company like Red Dirt was my creation, but it was in no aspect was it mine, >> right?

>> You know, um >> it was owned by Townour Media. >> Uh so I mean it it was >> the old daddy government came in to save you, huh? >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Shut you down. >> Yep.

And uh Yeah. And they said, "Uh, okay. Well, we're not going to bring you back." And I was like, "You can't take this festival from me." Like I mean that was me.

That was my identity at that point. and they're like, "We we can't bring you back. Like, there's a you know, we don't know if the event's going to happen in May." And which of course it did, but it was just uh by that point it started getting pretty testy and you know, ultimately I just knew that, you know, it was just going to be the end of the road.

>> Wow. >> And it ended, you know, and they uh um you know, Red Dirt still exists and uh I was still under a non-compete, which they were still enforcing. Um, >> well, that doesn't >> Hey, you know, at this point, I stopped being bitter about it, but cuz it it led to it led to >> drive you crazy.

>> Yeah, it didn't make much sense. And ultimately, >> if look, if there's one person you definitely should take legal advice from on that type of stuff, I think it's probably like the podcaster musician guy. >> Absolutely.

>> You know, drinking a glass of whiskey. Definitely that guy. >> Yeah.

I mean, send me an invoice. And I hate to say it, but >> I do bill hourly for this. >> It's probably going to go unpaid at this point, just just so you know, just the way things are going.

Uh yeah, but it um yeah, I mean it was over. I mean I I tried to like get them to work with me on a contract basis, you know, just to manage, you know, the artists and the barbecue restaurants and they could handle everything else and it just it was like no, this is this is it. Like it it's over and it was it was tough.

It was a tough pill to swallow like everything. >> Were you married at the time? >> Which time?

>> That time? >> Uh >> at that time? >> No, I was dating my now wife.

>> Kids though? previous marriages? >> No, never.

Never kids. >> Oh, you don't have any kids? >> No kids.

No, just dogs. Yeah. >> Uh yeah.

No, I proposed to my second wife on stage at Red Dirt and it didn't last very long, but >> Well, >> that whole other story there. >> Yeah. >> Uh but uh >> it was going to be my follow-up question.

>> Oh, yeah. Thanks, man. >> How did that end >> in divorce?

>> I'm just kidding. [laughter] >> Uh no, no, I was I was dating my wife now. She actually worked for the same company.

Uh she had actually got let go about a month before I did. >> Whoa. >> She she had lived in Florida.

She's from New York. Um, few months about three months after I got laid, let go, fired, whatever the [ __ ] you want to call it, she moved to Texas. Um, and all that.

It's, yeah, just a whole whirlwind. Um, yeah, March 2021, yeah, got let go formally. My grandfather died a couple of weeks later, uh, who was my hero.

And just like, yeah, I mean, it was just a big pile on everything. um but throughout this whole process um you know I've been talking to my best friend you know business partner um you know just kind of started throwing around the idea of like hey what if we did this on our own and uh one night [snorts] we were talking and you know I mean it was still kind of co so we weren't really like around each other but uh you know Drake and talking on the phone and you know might have had too many that night and they finally said [ __ ] it let's do it let's give it a shot So, started our company in May of 2021. Did our first festival in November 2021.

Sold out, made more money than I'd ever [snorts] we'd ever made on a red dirt show. Just absolutely crushed it. Was like, "Oh, man.

This is great. This is easy." >> Okay, hold on. When you save on a Red Dirt Show, >> like Red Dirt, like my original festival.

>> Yeah. So, like our first Trouador festival, like we made more money than >> any profit margin I had ever made on Red Dirt Show, which was impressive. Um, >> God, that had to feel great.

>> Yeah, it was it was awesome. It was like I hadn't worked in two and a half years and came back and um >> hit a lick. >> Yeah, man.

And you look back on it, it's like, man, everybody just wanted to get out of the house. They didn't care who was going to be on the stage. But, I mean, we had a great lineup.

Um, you know, like Pat Green and Josh Abbott co-headline. You know, we had Stony um Kyle Nicks and the 38s open the show. We had Cody Canada.

Um, you know, because Kyle Nicks was doing his thing, you know, when Turnpike was uh split up, but it was like we sold our 75th ticket the night before the festival. The day before the festival, we sold it out. We sold it out at 7 7500, which was more tickets than I had sold on any show um in my career.

Um, even a festival we did for Coetszel one time in East Texas. And like I remember like we're in our kind of private suite area we had for our our big sponsor and Pat Green's playing and like we sprayed champagne all over each other you know and like my wife looked at me and she's like man you're back like this is it like man this is >> that's what she said. >> Yeah.

She said you're back. >> What a cool thing to say. >> Yeah.

And I mean I met her working music festival. She just worked on the money side so she's a smart one. Um, she's like, "You're back.

Like, this is, you know, I haven't seen your heart like this in a long time." Like, man, this is awesome. You know, talked to my my friend business partner like, "Man, this is we've got something here. Let's do three trouidor festivals in 2022." What a huge [ __ ] mistake that was.

[laughter] >> So, yeah, we did it in Georgetown, we did it in Tyler, and then back in Salena. And only one of those three panned out. But, >> uh, Georgetown.

>> No. Um, >> Salena. Salena again.

Oh, that's right. Salina. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, what do what do you take away from that? So, it's like you had the big W and then you say, all right, well then let's expand it.

>> Yeah. It was just like, let's scale it, you know, like we we came out of Sina that that year u you know, profiting a lot of money. Um like, okay, we've we've got something that has value that people want to go to and events are back and you know, we can really make this a unique, you know, Texas thing.

The idea behind calling it a Trourior festival was like, you know, Trouidor was, you know, the old, you know, traveling poets and songwriters in in Western Europe, you know, hundreds of years ago. So, we wanted to be the traveling barbecue festival. And, uh, >> she spent, >> you see her getting pissy?

Did you hear the corgi? >> Oh, yeah. >> Uh, so I was like, well, let's just replicate this in different markets.

And, you know, we were putting out good lineups. We did more barbecue restaurants than we ever did in Tyler. you know, we had about 40 restaurants a show.

All the restaurants wanted to be a part of it and and then, you know, it just didn't we just we just wanted to expand too fast, too quick. And, you know, that was my fault. But Salina was still successful.

And um and then, you know, pretty much after that 2022 year, you know, we we moved Georgetown over to College Station. um after I heard about a little event called TwoStep in coming into Georgetown. I wasn't really aware of it when we first uh agreed to do Trouidor there.

But uh um that's all well and good. Twoep's a great event. Um and College Station was a cool opportunity, but um really at that point on it became a battle just trying to um you know make make it work with inflation with you know rising costs for everything from production and labor you know labor really really big artist cost got higher uh considerably.

Um >> do you think they're going to come down? [gasps] >> I don't know man. I think it's just going to be however long that like >> the big dogs can can keep up with that.

I mean, I think it'll correct itself to >> even people like in that middle ground that like they what I hear that they charge and they don't sell that many tickets and I hear what they charge and I'm just like, >> yeah, >> what? Because I think these agents know that somebody out there will pay it or they just throw out a number and just think like are they going to come back with something even close and we'll take it you know and you know maybe I look back it's like well maybe I could have been a bigger dick about negotiating or like really pushed for something lower. >> Yeah.

But you probably think there's some goodwill there that >> Well, there has to be and it it's such a the community aspect of it. it's good and it's not like you know we always help each other out and we always want everybody to succeed. I will never I will never disparage an artist or a band for making money and you know doing that like absolutely not.

Um >> you know but what I've seen over the last 10 years 12 years is completely night and day. You know I booked Red Dirt for seven years and Tyler um we never paid a headliner more than $45,000. >> Yeah.

Um, our last festival, you know, we paid more than that for [snorts] way for more than one, you know. Um, like the least amount of money I've ever paid a headliner was Cody Johnson in 2017. And it's crazy to think about now.

No, >> the least amount of money >> Yeah. you've ever paid >> to this day, like the least I've ever paid a headliner was Cody Johnson in 2017. Um, but it's it's just gotten it's gotten to a point where, like I said, it just doesn't make sense for for us and what we can handle financially and what's going to sell enough tickets.

You know, you can go book an artist, a great artist for, you know, on a festival for $1, $150,000, maybe a little bit less or more, but that kind of money is not going to get you the number of tickets that $100,000 got you six, seven, eight, nine, 10 years ago. Like when I did Red and Tyler, there was no way we would have ever thought about paying an artist $100,000. Like our entire lineup budget wasn't $100,000.

How how many how many industry people, agents, managers when you announced that you weren't going to do the next festival? >> Like how how many people like reached out to you just one? >> I think one.

Yeah. and she photographed my wedding. [laughter] So, my my my like last real wedding, my third one, the one that matters.

Um, >> well, the last one's always Exactly. newest one's always on. >> Jod Cochril at Evergreen, you know, she met she um works with Hudson Westbrook and, you know, Ty Dulk and and others.

Like I've known Jod a long time and from her photography days and she photographed our wedding in New York and you know, she's just a great friend and resource and and she knew it was coming and when I posted it, you know, she reached out. Um, beyond that, >> I don't think so. I don't think anybody.

Yeah. Um, >> and you spent a lot of money with those people. >> Yeah.

But I mean, I don't I honestly haven't even thought about, you know, them not reaching out until now, you know. I mean, it's just, uh, >> I just think it sort of exemplifies the elements of the industry in my opinion. But, >> uh, you know, to me, you know, for some of them it might be like, okay, moving on to the next thing that's going to fill these dates and make this money, you know.

Um, you know, >> have you have you know I'm sure there's times in your life where like when you know shit's going crazy and things are going great >> uh there's people that enter your life that are your friends you know and and then like when things take a turn some of those people disappear. Have you experienced a lot of that? >> Oh for sure.

Yeah. I mean, I started and uh you know, produced the biggest event in East Texas for seven years. And >> everybody's your friend.

>> Everybody, you know, uh and you know, when that was over, I mean, I I the response and you know, the support I got after that was incredible. Um you know, it's just uh but over time, you know, it it it no longer kind of became relevant. I mean, I wasn't working.

I had a [snorts] non-compete. Um, you know, our 2022 festival we did in Tyler was, you know, a mistake in the sense that it was a financial mistake. Um, a lot of it was driven out of spite and wanting to be able to, you know, do Tyler on my terms and do my own event there that we owned and wasn't, you know, wasn't corporate or whatever.

Um, I don't regret it. You know, it didn't make any money. In fact, it lost quite a bit.

But, um, I look back and think like, well, we did this better. You know, it looked it looked great. Everything went well.

You know, just didn't sell the tickets. U, but, you know, with that said, like it's uh, you know, with these agents and stuff. I mean, I don't know.

It's different relationships or whatever. You know, they they hear from me a couple of times a year because I only do two events a year. you know, I'm not an a buyer that uh you know, is booking a ton of dates at once or you know, is is you know, booking some of these massive festivals that they really want to get in on, but yeah, I never really thought about that till now.

>> Dicks, not joking. >> I'm glad [laughter] I could really So then what's the plan now, >> man? Are you hiring?

I could really get a [laughter] job. Yeah, could like sweep some floors or something. Man, it's it's just about finding stability right now.

You know, my my best friend and, you know, business partner has been super supportive. Um, you know, the last several years where this has been my only gig and I've done that full-time. You know, now it's like if we do do it in the future, it's just going to be like a side gig, you know, where we feel like, okay, this is, you know, we can get to a place where we can afford to do this again and hopefully make a little bit of money and not risk as much.

Um, [snorts] but it just doesn't need to be like a primary source of of paying the bills anymore, you know? So, >> yeah, it's got to be just incredibly stressful. >> Yeah.

So, just finding a spot in the industry hopefully. If not, it is, you know, just finding a job that, you know, like I said, pays the bills for for now and then hopefully get into it. Um, you know, eventually, you know, my uh my passion is this industry, but see, you know, those jobs are few and far between.

a lot of them are who you know. Um >> I find it interesting that for the amount of people that you know I I would but like being like a booking agent is not something that ever like interested you. Not really, you know, just more it just seems like so much on like the sales side of it, you know, and you're finding this talent and now it's like, okay, I'm gonna scroll through whoever >> is the latest, you know, viral sensation on TikTok and pray they >> pray they hit, but uh I mean, not say I've never thought about it, but uh >> you know, you basically got to get one of those artist who hits and who trusts you and uh you can get them shows or whatever and then you have something to take to a bigger agency and say, "Hey, I've got so and so.

You know, hire me and, you know, we'll get them on your books and, you know, try to get other people." But, >> you know, it's a hard part to break into. >> So, what I will say is there's there's >> Why do you need a booking agent? >> Actually, I don't.

It's like the f It's like Yeah. Normally uh f I guess there's been at least like one or two festivals that have ceased to operate and exist, but they ceased operations under what I think is kind of pretty sketchy terms, you know, >> and still owe people a lot of money. Uh, and so I gotta give you a lot of credit for like doing it the right way and just like being transparent about it.

>> Yeah. I mean, we, you know, one thing, you know, going into into this. Um, and just knowing myself and also knowing, you know, a guy I've known my entire life, uh, you know, he's basically my brother.

Uh, is that, you know, knowing that we're going to do things the right way. you know, we pay our bills and, you know, we know that the artists are going to get paid, you know, at the show. We know that vendors are going to get paid.

Um, you know, all that. Like, >> that's a big deal, dude. >> Yeah.

We hold ourselves accountable and and, you know, >> because that's not hasn't always been the case. >> No. And there have been events where, you know, >> that didn't operate that way.

And ultimately those events hurt us. Hurt us badly just on the sense that they may have booked a lot of artists that we would have really liked to book. >> No kidding.

>> One of those years. >> I mean, they still didn't get really paid. >> Yeah.

They still didn't get really paid. And and and we might have, you know, lost our ass that year after making a lot of money the first two years. You know, no idea what I'm talking about, but some people might pick up on it.

Yeah. And it and don't wish ill will upon any of those people or any of those situations, but uh yeah, that that was >> to me it just says more about you. Says whatever they are them, but to me it's like impressive that you're you know.

Well, that was like honestly that was the first like real hard like challenge to face, you know, doing festivals. And I was very blessed to say that it took eight, nine years before that happened because I was very spoiled in Tyler. U we started Trouidor like our first two festivals in Salena went really well.

Um we didn't sell out in 2022, but we still made good money. Um, that was the only that was the first show I never sold out in my career. Um, but we still made good money.

And then going to 2023, um, you know, trying to book Headliners, uh, Ray Headliner, and was just running into the same roadblock over and over again. And it was, oh, well, they're already booked to play another festival not far from you. Um, and at this point, if people are watching and they can't figure out which one it is, then you know that's okay.

But, uh, but you know, it was a multi-day festival that had tons of artists and anybody that we wanted to book was playing that one because >> big >> the guarantees were huge. >> And, uh, I had never been turned down on a headliner offer up to that year, ever. Um, I mean I could name them all in order, you know, still remember exactly how much I paid them and you know who it was and they were the first offer every time.

The first two trouidors we did, you know, the first year we had Pat Green and Josh Abbott uh co-headline, the second year we had Randy. first offers accepted both times, you know, and so 2023 comes along and um I honestly don't remember who the first ones were that we tried to book, but um you know, it just wasn't happening and they were getting booked by uh another event. Uh and I offered, you know, four or five other ones and it just wasn't hitting.

And we got to a point where we're like, well, who the hell are we going to book to play our festival? And um ultimately like our choices were so few at that point. Um because you know 50 of them were playing another event.

Um and it was like well Chris Young's available. And I will preface the rest of what I'm saying is that I love Chris. Chris is a great dude.

and [snorts] like put on a great show that night. Um, but like the amount of money that we had to spend to get him and just what the response was on a festival that was centered around Texas Red Dirt, Americana, whatever kind of music, you know, this scene that we know Chris just wasn't it. It wasn't that kind of fit.

And our attendance reflected as such and our balance sheet reflected as such. Um, you know, it was a fun year. Uh, Dak Prescott showed up, took a shot with Chris on the stage.

You know, we took some tequila shots with Dak Prescott in the back. He was super great and we had a great time, but like it just didn't like what we just had to pay for an artist to get get that done and you know, you're at the height of inflation um at that point. >> Yeah.

But that's because something down the road promised to pay a bunch of people a bunch of money >> and it didn't happen. >> And didn't do it. >> Yeah.

And even going into the next year, um, you know, cuz it was coming back. Um, and I had offered uh an artist a band to play, you know, in Salon in 2024 on a co-headlining thing. The other one had already accepted.

And, you know, their agent was like, "Yeah, but you know, they've got another offer over here." Because I kept raising my offer like it came in, you know, lower. And he was like, "Well, this other event's in on it, too. So, raise the offer." And ultimately raised it again.

Basically, I think almost doubled it by the time it got said and done. And [snorts] >> he was like, "Well, you know, it's it's down to, you know, they just got to decide if they want to do your show or theirs because y'all are basically offering the same money." And I finally said, "Do they want to get paid?" >> He's like, "Of course." said, "Well, you know that we're going to pay them. You know, um I don't know what's going on over there, but >> yeah, >> like you know, we had already booked this band on a festival before uh when they were, you know, they opened a b a show for us and I was like, let's let's get this done." And they did and we had a great show and it was awesome.

Um yeah, then that that other event never came back. Um, [clears throat] you know, so, you know, if this is how it ends for us, you know, at least we ended it the way we wanted it to or at least like ended on our terms and, you know, I can sleep easy knowing like we're we didn't [ __ ] anybody over. >> Totally.

You didn't have to >> Yeah, we we paid everybody. Um, you know, we have to wait on invoices sometimes at this point, you know, but as far as artists and people that we work with, you know, on a consistent basis. >> Yeah.

And it's it's interesting that there's like um [snorts] >> I don't know if you know the LJT crew much, but >> No, a little bit. >> They uh it's interesting how long they've existed. >> Yeah.

>> And just kind of just done their thing and there's been a lot of stuff that pops up and then cuz like I know them real well. Larry Joe was my first manager >> and Oh, nice. It's just interesting to hear their take on some of they just don't really get they just kind of do their thing and like >> and I wish like [snorts] you know I wish that Trouidor you know could have become that event that >> you know you call like hey dude you want to play Trouidor and they're like yeah man like [ __ ] yeah you want to play LJT I want to play Mile Zero I want to play you know Musicfest and all these others like and we've had artists like yeah I mean man I've wanted to play this for a long time um >> yeah but it >> but being something that longstanding and tradition and uh uh whatever you know is is something that you know we were definitely striving for.

>> Yeah. >> And being in that Yeah. It's uh it's rare as >> but it all comes back around and life is long and I what I do know is just treating people right and like keeping your word.

>> Even though like today and right now it might cost you money, it might cost you whatever. It's like I I I do believe that there's people that take notice that maybe most people that are paying attention to you and what you're doing. Uh a lot of times you don't realize it, you know, and then it like ends up coming back around and they're like, "Yeah, well, you did this thing and I saw you do it and I appreciated that." And you're like, "Oh, damn.

I didn't even know anybody." >> Yeah. One of the things that like I was always really proud of and and it was like, "Oh, they actually noticed." um after our 2022 show in in Salina, uh we had Randy and Wade on that show and uh Randy and Wade played My Last Red Dirt that I attended or produced I guess from front to back in 2019. Um so big fans big fans of both and you know we did that show and then um couple weeks later I hear from WDE's management they said hey Wade really had a great time at Trouidor.

he has something he wants to talk to you about. And I'm not going to get into all that, but it was kind of some ideas that he was thinking about and and we've had a great relationship since like he's become [clears throat] a a good friend and uh you know, just kind of one of his first things he said on the phone was like, "Man, I just was really impressed by the event and how well things were run and y'all treated everybody great and and all of that." And you know, it's just like >> that feels good. >> Yeah.

Yeah. And I've, you know, I've had conversations with agents or whatever and, you know, we'll be, you know, fighting about money or whatever and they're like, "Well, we don't want these guys to come out there and, you know, there'll be bologn sandwiches and catering." And I'm like, "We're a barbecue festival, bro." Like, >> like, "Nobody's going to beat us on the catering front. You had us a couple of months ago and Brian like like Rossler's Blue Cord Barbecue in Harker Heights, Texas, you know, just crushed it." >> Y'all, I went I went to the Yeah, I went to the one with Brian and the catering was awesome.

>> Yeah. Like >> I got I didn't even play, you know. >> Yeah.

>> You had a guitar. You had a guitar uh cake. >> Yeah, the cake we made for Flatland.

Man, that was I'll take credit for that idea. That was kind of cool. Um but [clears throat] like, you know, had a long relationship with those guys.

Like those guys opened Red Dirt for us in 2017. You know, the first two bands that played on the show were Flatland and Shane when Cody Johnson headlined it. Like we had Cody Canada and Wade Bowen on that show, too.

Like just badass. Um, but you know, like seeing those guys come through it, you know, they had this great record. Uh, you know, Ryan Beaver's a buddy and, you know, I know he wrote he wrote with ClT on some of it and, um, I was like, man, let's just do something cool for these guys.

You know, we give him that, you know, we gave them custom cutting boards from Rosewood Block, you know, and, you know, what catering was going to be like, we know we take care of bands, like, you know, no matter what >> the cost has been or like what we work out on trade or whatever, we know that that's going to be taken care of back there. >> Yeah. Um, yeah.

So, we we slept easy knowing that. >> Hell yeah, dude. Well, I'm proud to know you.

Uh, thanks for being nice to me and thanks for being glad we could do this. >> Hell yeah. >> Uh, so I mean, I'm rooting for you and I think we got >> So, what's next for you?

>> For me, I'm just playing shows and >> Oh, yeah. >> talking into a microphone, >> you know? >> We'll keep doing >> Same old same old putting out music.

>> Yeah. >> But like, it's funny you're a grunge guy. I didn't know that cuz like my last record was definitely rock and roll and had some grunge elements and then my new music is like very grunge rock and roll inspired but like all with like it's like all cowboy [ __ ] though too.

So I like it >> which is cool cuz most of the guys that I know in that world like that's the type of music that they listen to but there hasn't been anybody that's really tapped into it with like more of a cowboy aesthetic and that type of thing. >> You know it's I feel like it's kind of coming in a little bit. you know, you got some bands, you know, CO kind of did it, you know, a little bit more like Blink 182 kind of style that that rock era they grew up in.

>> Yeah. And what's interesting about that style of music is a lot of people it gets really heavy or it's like the way that they remember it from like an actual recording and production standpoint is heavier than it actually was. Like when you go back and listen to some of those like like Nirvana and Allison Chains, Pearl Jam for sure, those records like >> from a recording standpoint, it was more similar to like like the way just like a normal uh band in a room, folk band would like record their thing.

And now it's like people use like all these stacked layered guitars and it's super slick and huge and it sounds more like Nickelback and I'm like no that's not what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. >> Like like a uh more raw >> a Pearl Jam record is more similar to Led Zeppelin than Nickelback.

>> Absolutely. >> Right. >> For sure.

Way more authentic. >> Yeah. But it's like abandoned.

They're capturing a band in a room. So it's like trying to keep it really raw in a raw production. Raw recording.

So that's where I'm >> Yeah. I was like I told you my my brother was seven years older than me. So, like, you know, kind of got, you know, brought up into that and that's kind of what I fell in love with.

And and like when I first started kind of diving into this country, Texas country red dirt kind of thing, you know, I gravitated more toward the music that had like the rock elements, you know, your Uncle Lucious, your ragweed, you know, but then, you know, kind of started, you know, really get into. Uh, I mean, William Clark Green was one of the first ones I I really >> I love Will >> fell in love with. Tyler, Texas boy, you know, also.

So he, funny story, he came in the station uh on an in studio performance uh not long after Rose Queen came out. >> Oh wow. >> And I hadn't been in the station long and Buddy Logan, our Texas country DJ, comes around to all the offices.

He goes, "Hey, we've got a guy coming in for his studio. I need y'all to come." Right? Why?

He's like, "Cuz I don't think anybody else is going to show up." Like any of the listeners that he invited. So a lot of our staff go in there. Like Will didn't know us from Adam.

Um, but the only one who showed up like outside the station was Will's mom. And we're sitting there watching him and and the first song he played was Rose Queen. And I didn't know who Will was.

I knew it was from Tyler and all that. Uh, but his song Rose Queen is about Tyler because Tyler's, you know, Rose Capital of the World. You know, they got the Rose Queen every year.

And he played that song. I was like, man, this guy's [ __ ] good. And just like dove into that record and been a huge fan ever since.

and you know became friends and got him on shows and uh you know all that like Will's just a great great [ __ ] dude. Uh one of the few independent festivals that's that's crushing it and really glad to see what Cottonfest is doing out there. But um but yeah, like back on the grunge day like my brother was that he just brought me into that like as he kind of evolved into the country music, Texas country thing, you know, in the mid '9s.

Um you know, that's kind of the style that he gravitated toward too. And you know, that's eventually how I got into it and finally caught up to what he had been yelling at me about for for so many years. And uh yeah, so I mean like you know my brother, he died about eight years ago, but uh but like anything I listen to now like if it's got that kind of that sad rock element to it.

>> Well, Cross Canadian Ragweed that had a very grunge sound. >> Oh yeah. I mean the dude's kids middle names are veteran Cobain, you know, like talked to Cody about that at our first festival, first Trouidor.

I was like, "Dude, I love that. That's that's badass." You know, we were talking about we both had tickets to Pearl Jam at Oklahoma City that that got postponed during CO, you know, and uh we got to go the next year, you know, finally. Um but yeah, like you know, finally you I've seen Pearl Jam a bunch.

Uh >> Oh, that's sick. >> Yeah. Eight time.

Eight times. >> Oh, damn. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, it's um my brother and I were supposed to go to Wrigley Field to see Pearl Jam in 2016 and didn't happen >> at Wrigley Field. Oh, dude, that would have been your like >> Well, yeah.

So, it was we were supposed to go um for reasons outside of my control, we we didn't go. Um and then my brother passed away in 2017 and then Pearl Jam came back to Wrigleyfield in 2018. >> So, I went.

>> Yeah. >> Uh just best show I've ever seen. Like, you know, people ask me like, "What's your alltime favorite concert?" Like, Pearl Jam really 2018.

>> Yeah. >> Year after your brother died, too. I bet that was like almost that was probably emotional.

>> It was tough, man. Yeah, but it was cool. Like uh you know the encore they played yellow lead better.

First time I had seen them ever play yellow lead better before. >> My first Pearl Jam show I ever went to. I went with my brother to Jazzfest in New Orleans.

>> They had never seen them. They wouldn't normally play yellow lead better. >> Well, I mean every set's different.

So I mean you know they're yellow lead better is almost always in their well it's always in their encore. So if it's not, you know, Rocket in the Free World or or some other ones, you know, they'll do Y better. So I mean, I've seen them >> think >> Yeah.

Do you know the words? >> I've seen them nine times and they probably played Year like four out of those nine times. >> Okay.

>> Um but so like yeah, we see him at Wrigleyfield, you know, great show. Um they play Just Breathe, which is on one of my arms and was kind of a big part of the eulogy. I had my brother [snorts] was that song.

And uh you know the funny part was is that my ex-wife and I were were leaving Chicago. We're in an Uber on the way to the airport and the last song to play on the radio before we got out of the Uber was just Breathe. Crazy [ __ ] >> No kidding.

>> Yeah. Uh yeah. But seen him a lot since man.

Like you know they didn't play in Texas for a long time but uh and when they did come back to Dallas like in the early 2000s my mom would let me go with my brother but uh seen him in Madison Square Garden. You know saw him at Wrigleyfield. Uh, you know, strangely enough, a couple years ago they did four shows in one week in Texas.

I did two in Fort Worth and two in Austin. Went to all four, you know. So, that [ __ ] doesn't come around very often.

Someone is Pearl. >> Uh, I can't remember the name of the song. My favorite one cuz I'm doing a uh cover EP of some like ' 90s alt rock grunge.

Tunes. I'm going to do like four or five and do like an acoustic EP. >> Um, and I want to do a Pearl Jam one.

My favorite one though has always been the wait and watching the clock. It's 4:00. >> Um, but I can't find the right one to do.

>> You can always do Well, my my all-time favorite Pearl Jam song is Release and that's what's on that arm. >> That'd be cool. >> I've never seen them play it live.

They've never played it um at shows I've been to, so I'm 0 for nine. But uh >> uh yeah, that's a >> I'm going to do Santa Monica. >> Oh, yeah.

>> Ever clear tune. And then uh I don't know if it's technically grunge uh but there was like that oneoff band that did the I smell sexy. >> Oh Marcy Playground I call it grunge but definitely like you know that mid to late 90s middle school years for me.

>> Uh look at look at given to Fly for Pearl Jam off Yel 1988. Yeah. >> I listen to Given to Fly almost every day just for personal reasons but >> okay.

>> Uh >> yeah might have to do it. It's got some got some big notes in there, but I think you got it. >> I mean, if you know the words, that's a good start because Eddie doesn't know the words half the time to a lot of his >> Yeah.

Well, do you really have to know the words if it's an Eddie Veter song? >> Not really. >> I mean, >> I mean, if you want to ruin Yellow Lead Better for yourself >> is know the words.

>> Well, if you want to ruin it forever, just look at the misheard lyrics video on YouTube and you will never listen to that song. >> It's just a bunch of Rs. It's >> No, it's uh uh just it's a it's [ __ ] hilarious.

Like just like they're like substitute they put like pictures and words. This video has been on YouTube for like 15 years. It's like uh [laughter] >> like the part where he says like make me cry.

It's like make me fries and just like shows fries. The part like Anna Cole Smith and uh like like on a whale like shows you a whale. Like it it will ruin the song for you, but it's hilarious.

ly the first time I showed my brother that song, we like just died laughing like but uh but it Yeah, it's it's worth uh it's worth ruining. I think you'll still love the song. >> It's worth ruining.

>> Yeah, you'll still love the song, but if you ever listen to it, that's definitely what you're going to think about. >> I get it. >> Yeah, but uh >> what was the name of the song again that you said that you suggested?

>> Oh, release. >> No, what was the other one? >> Oh, Given to Fly.

Given to Fly. >> Yeah, that's a great one. It's upbeat, too.

It's like a half. I >> probably know it. I just don't know that title.

Given to Fly. Okay. Oh, >> I'm not going to sing it for you, but No, I know.

>> It came out on Yield like 90. Yeah. Yeah.

It It's kind of like a It's kind of the [ __ ] the haters kind of song. It's a >> I do. Uh so like next door there's a cigar bar.

He's he's a buddy of ours. He uh >> and like one of my favorite things to do is like when somebody talks about like a really well-known song, I'm like, "Wait, what? What is it?" >> Just have them be >> and you can get them and they're like, "What are you talking about?

You don't know Amarillo by Morning?" I'm like, "What is it?" Yeah. >> So he we were sitting over there one day and uh was it Journey Micah? >> Oh, it was Don't Stop Believing and he was like, you know, like Don't Stop Believing.

I was like, "What are you talking about?" And he's like, "The Journey song." And I'm like, "What Journey song?" And so like I like kept doing it to him. And then finally he's like, "Don't stop." Like get him. And I'm like, "I don't like get him to sing the whole chorus." And so then by the end of the chorus I just sit back in my chair and I just like >> And he's like, "You son of a [ __ ] [laughter] You got me to sing that whole chorus.

>> My wife is a huge Bon Joy fan. I wonder if I could do that to her. >> It's a fun bit.

>> Yeah, just to make her mad. >> Maybe not with your wife, but >> probably she probably murder me. [laughter] Yeah, we're going to see Bon Joy Madison Square Garden in July.

>> That's insane. >> Yeah, the ticket prices were really [ __ ] insane. Like I'm like this is >> Hey, do that.

Come on. Just throw a festie with like Bon Joy and Pearl Jam. >> Yeah, absolutely.

you know, people like, "Why don't you get my my favorite was, >> you know, after 2023 when we had like a down year [snorts] and, you know, that other festival happened, you know, going to the next year, >> every why don't you get Zack Bryant? Just get Zack Bryant. Just get Zack Bryant." >> Yeah.

I was like, "Yeah, man. Absolutely. I just let me pull $2 million out of my ass and and and get this done." >> That's like when you talk to the distant aunt at the family reunion.

And she's like, "Well, I don't I don't understand why you don't like just take your CD down to like one of the record labels and give them your CD." >> Yeah. They'll play you on the radio right then. >> Then they'll play you on the radio deal.

>> And then I know so you've done the hard part. >> Tina volunteers at the county fair and then you could go play the fair. >> Absolutely.

Yeah. >> Why did I not think of that? >> Yeah.

Like we would, you know, we just do like some of the generic like posts like who do you want to see at True Festival next year? It's like seven people like George Straight. George Straight, Taylor Swift like All right, cool.

Like just for comparison, like we sell like 7,000 tickets and George just sold 112,000 at Kyle Field at College Station. But >> yeah, man. Absolutely.

We're >> the same people interacting with like AI artist posts on Facebook. So >> you know, and it's fine like and it's so much of it like you can't like hold it against hold it against, you know, hold them against what's the [ __ ] phrase I'm trying to think of? >> Hold them up against >> hold it against them.

Yeah. I give up. You can't blame them for it because like they don't know and it's not their job to know and it's like uh >> well those are ridiculous.

>> Yeah. Well, like I'll take this for example. So like our Salina show last year 2025 and I know you were trying to wrap it up.

I'll do one more story. Um >> honestly I was looking at she's look at her dreaming. >> Oh man's like he'll start running in his >> Yeah.

But um and like these people don't know and you you can't wrong them for it or hate them for it. You know, one they don't know how much these things cost. You know, they don't know that our electric bill is $50,000 at one of these shows.

They don't know that tents and tables and all that from that company, you know, is $86,000. They don't know that your just in case a tornado comes policy is $35,000. and you know all these you know your [ __ ] are $25,000 and your really nice [ __ ] for your VIPs are another $20,000.

So like it just you know not [clears throat] factoring in production and then you get into like what the artist cost but um you know 2025 was undoubtedly like well for Salina for sure like our college station show thought we built a great lineup and it just didn't sell like we wanted to and didn't make any money but um but yeah going back to Salina like looking back we should have just said like you know what we're not going to do it because something in the universe does not want us to book a headliner for this show. Um, I don't have like the exact count of number of headliners I offered. It was somewhere around 11 to 15 or something like that before we finally landed on one.

And um, you know, it just didn't hit like we wanted it to. And you know, we offered we offered our very first headliner so for October 2025 and which later we eventually even changed the date to try to accommodate more. But in June of 2024, we submitted our first headlining offer for October of 2025.

>> Yeah. >> You know, so four months before our 2024 festival would even happen, you know, we submitted and, you know, the agent said like, "Hey, we're going to have to sit on this for a while. This band's skyrocketing, but you know, we'll get we'll get something going." And then, you know, they passed.

Um, and then over that, you know, over the next, you know, nine ts, you know, just kept offering and just kept missing. you know, just wasn't happening. And finally, >> one of those where you had to book somebody that like, hey, they're great.

I love them, but you know, I don't think this is going to sell what >> we wanted. And, you know, over the course of that time, you know, we can't tell people that, okay, you didn't like the lineup we had this year, which I still enjoyed it and it was good. It just didn't sell like we wanted to.

But was like like you know the same way they don't know that all those expenses are that much or that they exist. You know they don't know that that band I offered in June of 2024 was the Red Clay Strays a month after they played for us in College Station. You know they don't know that we offered you know a bunch of other artists you know Taiers Hudson Westbrook uh Ella Langley you know all these you know all these artists.

Zack Top a few times trying to get him on it, you know, to knowing that if one of those artists had confirmed 2025 would have been an entirely different story, >> man. >> And we probably wouldn't be sitting here talking about Trouidor being on a hiatus. >> You definitely wouldn't be talking to me, [laughter] you know?

>> I'd be talking to you, but it wouldn't be about us being on a hiatus. It would be like like, yeah, what's next? like like man you've gotten all these guys on your shows and somehow you got you know whether it be like the red clay straer langley or whatever to headline troubador and salina in 2025 cuz we caught them at the right moment to get on our show but that's the that's situation we've been in for the last you know however many years is that we've got to catch them >> right here before they get here you know like >> and then hope by the time the show comes around they didn't go like that >> yeah that they're even higher up yeah we've you know we look back I look back at some of our lineups and you know openers or close to openers.

You know in 2023 Braxton Keith played side stage for us in College Station. The opener on our main stage was Treaty Oak Revival. The next year the Red Clay Strays played second on our main stage.

You know the year after that Hudson Westbrook opened the main stage. >> Dude, isn't that isn't that crazy that that's just like investing too? Like you can be right but the timing's wrong.

>> Yep. >> And like >> Yeah. I mean, uh, a good buddy of mine, Chris Thomas, who's worked in the industry a while, he works, uh, really closely with William Clark Green on Cottonfest and he's working >> Oh, yeah.

And then he does like Born and Raised or something or >> Yeah, does Born and Raised, you know, does stuff with that. >> I was just texting with him like last week. Okay.

>> He's worked for AG, Peach Tree, like all the big dogs. >> Um, you know, he's he's a buddy and like we, you know, talk all the time or, you know, [snorts] talk quite frequently about it and he always says like, "Yeah, it's just it's legalized gambling is all this is." >> Yeah. And it it really is.

And you know, my business partner is a he's a he loves to play craps. >> He loves a game. >> He he loves craps.

And he's like, "Dude, I think I've we've got better odds playing craps than we do throwing a [ __ ] music festival at this point." And he's probably right. But it's like I can point to all these times to where we've had these artists and, you know, on our lap. So like, we know who they are.

We know who we're trying to get. You know, when you're trying to get in these headlining slots, you know, which your direct support and headliner is what's selling your tickets. your headliner is what selling is what getting you know asses in seats or asses on grass however you want to look at it.

Um you know I know out of the course of all those offers if we had the strays or if we had Zack Top or Ella Langley or Taiers or whoever among these artists that we that we booked had had one of those confirmed and nothing against Clay Walker he was phenomenal. He did a great job and he was one of the nicest human beings ever been around and but like it just didn't hit you know the same way in this viral nature of the industry that we're in. Um you know that but uh had we had one of those you know I don't think Trouidor would be on a hiatus right now.

>> Yeah. >> You know it's uh >> it'll come back. >> Yeah.

I mean I hope so. Um we're for sale. Just kidding.

Well maybe not. I don't know. Everybody's got a number I guess.

50 bucks, you know. [laughter] Um but uh you know it's just uh the hope the hope that it is and and you know I think that we would navigate you know the industry a little differently or you know find some other partners in it who would uh want to you know kind of go in on the risk with us or whatever. But you know we look at it as like dude we're two kids from Bullard Texas and uh you know we've done a lot and we did we did something cool >> with this festival.

We did 11 of them. Um, some went well, some went really well, some not so great. Um, but like, you know, I have no regrets.

>> Yeah. Live to fight another day. >> Yeah.

So, if it, you know, if I get to stay in this industry and I get to, you know, work with artists that, uh, you know, I love to see, you know, live music is is what feeds my passion. And if I get to work in it in some some capacity, whether it's on the artist side or the booking side or whatever side, you know, comes up, you know, I'll uh I'll enjoy it for sure. >> Yeah.

Well, >> if not, I'll just buy tickets to the shows and go. >> Yeah. I appreciate your directness and honesty.

>> Uh being willing to share it. >> Uh it was cool to hear your actual story. >> Yeah.

>> And where it came from. Uh and thanks for making the trip. We're homies now.

>> Yeah, absolutely, bro. Can't you can't shake me now. >> Text me anytime.

>> Now you're going to be like, "Oh god, >> I don't have a job right now, so I'm free. I'm totally free. >> I'm free.

We can talk." >> You can babysit my corgi, >> dude. Do not I am taking a picture of her before I send it to my wife cuz she's like, "Can we get another corgi?" Like, "Absolutely not." >> Until you hang out with this one. >> I mean, I could take Booger home.

Like she'd be great. But like my corgi's name was Monster and he was he was he was something like they are true [ __ ] >> But he was a great dog. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. But >> cool, brother.

Thanks for having me. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Thanks for being here. See y'all. >> And oh, congrats on uh album of the year, >> bro.

That's crazy. >> That's uh that's awesome. >> That's a pinch me.

>> Uh Parker was in Tyler today, I believe, or yesterday. Today, uh picking up a guitar from uh a music store. >> Oh, really?

Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah.

For instance, like, hey, Parker was at M Music and Tyler. Uh >> he's a good egg, man. He tries to help people and he's uh he's like a uh >> his speech was >> Oh, perfect.

>> Primo. >> Yeah, it was great. >> Yeah.

In 2019, we did uh when I was at Town Square, we did a hometown music festival for Co uh Co. Wetzel's incredible music festival. >> That's [laughter] right.

>> Yeah. I one of the names I'm proud of that I thought I thought of, but uh like we kind of became homies that year and and you know, Co wanted to do this show and we we actually we went to them about it, but uh it was a lot of fun. We were going to do it again the next year, but you know, co but we had co and Parker on that show which was my cousin open uh JB and the Moonshine Band played on it because co wanted them to play which they don't really do shows anymore but uh yeah 7,000 tickets like you know out the gate for that thing.

But having Co and Parker on that stage and I'm standing side stage and Parker walks out sing Love with Co and you got 7,000 just hammered people out there, you know, just sing as I can like and then we have, you know, book Parker on Red Dirt after that. Like it's it's really cool to see it's really cool to see what these guys have have launched themselves into for sure. >> Yeah.

And they they still they they know where they came from. >> Oh yeah. Yeah.

>> Like stuff changes and like I mean they their lives are pure chaos. Well, we're in a time now, you know, where, you know, 20, 25, 30 years ago, you know, people giving Pat Green [ __ ] for selling out or whatever, whatever the hell that means. Um, I'm sorry that bettering my situation.

And, you know, my family is selling out, but >> those are the types of guys like Randy Rogers, same way. Like, those are the types of guys that that kick down the door. >> Yeah.

>> So, that like and now people don't really even talk about it. >> Yeah. They don't there's no there's no door wall there anymore.

you know what you're what you need to get is coming through your speakers. Like if you still feel that, >> you know, that sound and that authentic nature you're you're used to hearing from, you know, Randy Rogers or Parker Mcllum or Coow Wetzel or whoever that may be. It's like, you know, Cody Johnson, Cody Johnson has not changed in 15 years.

He's just a lot more popular now. You know, >> your perception of him has changed. >> Yeah, exactly.

like, you know, he headlined, you know, Red Dirt in 2017, and I wouldn't I mean, to me, he would he would perform and act and all those things just as well then as he does now, just on a totally different >> totally different, you know, playing field. Um, but I can always say I booked him for less than any other headliner. >> Yeah, >> we just won't get into the other ones I swung and missed on.

Sing [music] me.